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Vikings extend Danielle Hunter

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36 minutes ago, Krauser said:

Terrible take. 

Hunter is excellent against the run, he's not a pass rush specialist. 

He had 61 pressures last year, same as Griffen. 

He has 25 career sacks, and hasn't turned 24 yet. He's one of the best young edge players in the league, absolutely a star in the making. Go look up Jared Allen's stats in his first 3 years to compare. 

He's not a "replaceable cog". The Vikings other DEs are Griffen, who's very good but turns 31 this year, Robison who's washed up and a bunch of late round / UDFA projects like Weatherly and Bower. If Hunter had moved on next year they'd have had next to nothing at the position beyond an aging Griffen.

There's hardly a team in the league that wouldn't have jumped at the chance to sign Hunter to this deal. 

Lol you're being a ridiculous homer by suggesting that he's a star.  The guy got inserted in specific situations in 1 season, which led to 12.5 sacks because nobody had film on him, and then they give him a chance to start and he doesn't even come close to repeating that output.  He's not excellent against the run lol, he's serviceable, and that's more because he plays on a team (and more importantly a line) loaded with physical freaks of nature

Do you realize that this means that Anthony Barr is almost assuredly gone now?  There's no way we can afford both Diggs and Barr and Diggs will probably get franchised if they don't pick up his 5th year option.  Our front office had to choose between Barr and Hunter and they've made their decision and I think it's the wrong one.  They're gambling on an undersized DE who didn't live up to expectations last season instead of Barr, who's made 3 straight Pro Bowls and is one of the best OLBs in the game and a PROVEN star.  We could have just picked up Vinny Curry for half the price and been completely fine AND managed to sign Barr and Diggs

The only teams that would jump at the opportunity to sign him to that contract are the talentless teams that will take anyone who wants to play for them that's better than what they already have.  If I was a fan of a team like Tampa (and they do need some help at DE), I would not want anything to do with Hunter with this contract attached to him.  If you're really expecting him to take a leap up to 15 sacks like Jared Allen did in his 4th season, then good luck with that lol.  I've watched him play enough to know that won't be happening now that teams are aware of his presence

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I'm kind of 50/50 on this one. I think it's a good deal for a player of his age and caliber. And he is a good guy to have locked up because he is younger than the core of Minny's defense. The one thing that gives me pause is that he seems more like a luxury asset as opposed to a core piece of the roster. He seems like the kind of guy that high end teams normally let walk, because some other team will pay them to be the headlining star of their defense while they're a 3rd or 4th piece on their current team. And if they can pay them all that's fine, in the end, but if it impedes their ability to resign Barr or Diggs or something, then I'd start to question it. Just weird to think that a team is paying $14.5M to the 5th(ish) best defender on their roster.

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39 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Agree. Horrible take.

Sure, he didn't have the sexy sack stats last year compared to 2016 but he was tasked with stopping the run (which he does well) and containing the QB in the pocket for Griffen to put pressure on (which he did until he got hampered with injuries.)

It's a great deal especially if he turns into the superstar he can be.

So basically, to sum this post up in a nutshell, it's not a great deal because he won't ever turn into a superstar because he is exactly what he is right now and nothing more 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

So basically, to sum this post up in a nutshell, it's not a great deal because he won't ever turn into a superstar because he is exactly what he is right now and nothing more 

LOL. OK.

If you think a 23 year old DE with huge upside won't progress and "he is what he is" at age 23, there's no point in arguing with you. Can't argue with stupidity.

You must be the greatest talent scout ever if you can predict 23 year old Hunter won't progress at all and he's already maxed out talent wise.

Wow, buddy....

Quote

Do you realize that this means that Anthony Barr is almost assuredly gone now?  There's no way we can afford both Diggs and Barr and Diggs will probably get franchised if they don't pick up his 5th year option. 

Wrong again.

The Vikings DO have room to sign Diggs and Barr both. It's been said many times and this EXACT contract for Hunter was predicted by cap analysts months ago. 

Edited by Vikes_Bolts1228

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3 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

LOL. OK.

If you think a 23 year old DE with huge upside won't progress and "he is what he is" at age 23, there's no point in arguing with you. Can't argue with stupidity.

You must be the greatest talent scout ever if you can predict 23 year old Hunter won't progress at all and he's already maxed out talent wise.

Wow, buddy....

He's an undersized starting caliber DE on a title contending team.  Nothing more, nothing less.  He's not a necessity for this team, he's a luxury.  I never said he wasn't a good player, I said that he's not worth a $15M extension.  If he's worth that much, then so is a guy like Markus Golden, and we all know he's not worth that much

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

He's an undersized starting caliber DE on a title contending team.  Nothing more, nothing less.  He's not a necessity for this team, he's a luxury.  I never said he wasn't a good player, I said that he's not worth a $15M extension.  If he's worth that much, then so is a guy like Markus Golden, and we all know he's not worth that much

You said Hunter is what he is right now. I think that's hilariously ridiculous to proclaim and I'm struggling to find anyone who agrees with you.

Believe me, I think Diggs should be priority #1 all off-season but Hunter comes before Barr as well. I struggle to invest in a player who admittedly took an entire season off and gave half assed effort a lot of the time. What happens when he gets paid? Is he going to coast again?

There's room to sign all 3 players. Hunter's exact contract was predicted by cap analysts months ago.

Edited by Vikes_Bolts1228

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25 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

So basically, to sum this post up in a nutshell, it's not a great deal because he won't ever turn into a superstar because he is exactly what he is right now and nothing more 

Here are all the NFL players in the last 20 years with 20 sacks by the age of 23:

Screen_Shot_2018_06_27_at_3_37_33_PM.png

Hunter is the only one in the top 10 who wasn't drafted in the top 15. 

29 minutes ago, footbull3196 said:

If you're really expecting him to take a leap up to 15 sacks like Jared Allen did in his 4th season, then good luck with that lol.  I've watched him play enough to know that won't be happening now that teams are aware of his presence

I predicted he'd have 12 sacks in 2016, how did that turn out? 

I expect Hunter to lead the team in sacks this year. 

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16 minutes ago, Krauser said:

Here are all the NFL players in the last 20 years with 20 sacks by the age of 23:

Screen_Shot_2018_06_27_at_3_37_33_PM.png

Damn Aldon Smith could have been a hall of famer. 

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24 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

You said Hunter is what he is right now. I think that's hilariously ridiculous to proclaim and I'm struggling to find anyone who agrees with you.

Believe me, I think Diggs should be priority #1 all off-season but Hunter comes before Barr as well. I struggle to invest in a player who admittedly took an entire season off and gave half assed effort a lot of the time. What happens when he gets paid? Is he going to coast again?

There's room to sign all 3 players. Hunter's exact contract was predicted by cap analysts months ago.

If Hunter had taken another step forward after his 12.5 sack season, I'd be more inclined to buy into his "huge upside".  However, he stagnated quite a bit, and I have reason to believe he might just be what he is right now.  It makes sense why people think he's got potential 

I'm not sure I see all 3 guys coming back.  I think they just marked the beginning of the end for Barr in Minnesota, and I'm not happy about that since he's proven himself a bit more 

10 minutes ago, Krauser said:

Here are all the NFL players in the last 20 years with 20 sacks by the age of 23:

Screen_Shot_2018_06_27_at_3_37_33_PM.png

Hunter is the only one in the top 10 who wasn't drafted in the top 15. 

I predicted he'd have 12 sacks in 2016, how did that turn out? 

I expect Hunter to lead the team in sacks this year. 

How many sacks did you predict him to have last year?  If it was anywhere near double digits, you were way off

I expect Griffen to lead the team in sacks because that's what he's there for

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Just now, footbull3196 said:

If Hunter had taken another step forward after his 12.5 sack season, I'd be more inclined to buy into his "huge upside".  However, he stagnated quite a bit, and I have reason to believe he might just be what he is right now.  It makes sense why people think he's got potential 

Like I said....there's a reason his sack numbers didn't improve and even Zimmer himself has come out and said that Hunter's main job in 2017 wasn't getting to the quarterback. He was asked to do other things in the defense including run defense and containing the quarterback for Griffen to get to him. Much like Barr's role in the defense was changed to a more containing, run stopping OLB than a pass rushing, disrupting OLB we saw in 2014 and 2015. It's not coincidence that Barr went from 7.5 sacks in 2014 and 2015 combined down to only 3 in 2016 and 2017 combined

Could the sack numbers have been better? Sure, I think he could/should have easily had 3-4 more sacks than the 7 he had. Like stated, he's 23. If he has 12.5 sacks in him at age 21-22, how can you tell me he can't get there or improve on the 12.5?

If Hunter put up 7-8 sacks in 2016 and followed up with the 7 he got in 2017, then I'd agree with you that it might be all we'll see from him. But we've SAW him put up 12.5 sacks at age 21-22....he HAS the ability to get there so saying he can't/won't get back there is mind boggling.

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What about Hunter is undersized? He's a physical specimen.

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4 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Like I said....there's a reason his sack numbers didn't improve and even Zimmer himself has come out and said that Hunter's main job in 2017 wasn't getting to the quarterback. He was asked to do other things in the defense including run defense and containing the quarterback for Griffen to get to him. Much like Barr's role in the defense was changed to a more containing, run stopping OLB than a pass rushing, disrupting OLB we saw in 2014 and 2015. It's not coincidence that Barr went from 7.5 sacks in 2014 and 2015 combined down to only 3 in 2016 and 2017 combined

Could the sack numbers have been better? Sure, I think he could/should have easily had 3-4 more sacks than the 7 he had. Like stated, he's 23. If he has 12.5 sacks in him at age 21-22, how can you tell me he can't get there or improve on the 12.5?

If Hunter put up 7-8 sacks in 2016 and followed up with the 7 he got in 2017, then I'd agree with you that it might be all we'll see from him. But we've SAW him put up 12.5 sacks at age 21-22....he HAS the ability to get there so saying he can't/won't get back there is mind boggling.

That's a good point about his role in the defense changing and I would love to see Hunter return to his 2016 production.  You're right, he does have the potential to get back to 12-13 sacks because he's done it before.  But that does raise the question: are we gonna bother changing his role back to allow him to rush the passer at will?  I'd feel more comfortable about whether he would live up to this extension if we did, because he only played in half the teams snaps in 2016 and had 12.5 sacks

Believe me, I expected double digit sacks from him last season myself and I was disappointed.  So I guess that's why I'm a bit critical in my reasoning.  I think we just paid him too soon and I think we should have exercised his 5th year option first and waited a year to see if we still wanted to resign him or go after a stop gap DE in free agency when the time came

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, TENINCH said:

What about Hunter is undersized? He's a physical specimen.

Here's the height/weight for all Vikings DE's on the roster from biggest to smallest.

6'6/270
6'5/265
6'5/260
6'5/250
6'3/273
6'3/259
6'3/258

Where is Hunter on there?

Let's name them!

Ade Aruna
Stephen Weatherly
Danielle Hunter
Tashawn Bower
Everson Griffen
Brian Robison
Ifeadi Odenigbo

I had NO idea 6'5/260 was considered UNDERSIZED!

If Hunter was a 3-4 DE where he's lining up inside, yes....I think he'd be about 20-25 pounds underweight but he's absolutely perfect size for a  4-3 DE

 

Edited by Vikes_Bolts1228

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50 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Here's the height/weight for all Vikings DE's on the roster from biggest to smallest.

6'6/270
6'5/265
6'5/260
6'5/250
6'3/273
6'3/259
6'3/258

Where is Hunter on there?

Let's name them!

Ade Aruna
Stephen Weatherly
Danielle Hunter
Tashawn Bower
Everson Griffen
Brian Robison
Ifeadi Odenigbo

I had NO idea 6'5/260 was considered UNDERSIZED!

If Hunter was a 3-4 DE where he's lining up inside, yes....I think he'd be about 20-25 pounds underweight but he's absolutely perfect size for a  4-3 DE

 

I feel like 260-270 is ideal for a 4-3 DE and since he is good against the run, i dont mind him being 260

I was surprised to see 14M a year, is that really paying for what he has done or what he might do just because i was surprised to see that number. I know his stats for a 23 year old are very impressive but still this is more of a future deal hoping it winds up being a steal right?

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2 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

is that really paying for what he has done or what he might do

That's the whole point of a contract extension, pay for future performance.

I remember arguing with Vikings fans on the old FF site in 2013 who thought Griffen's extension was a bad deal at $45M/5. He hadn't shown he could produce as a starter, etc. Forbes or some business magazine called him the most overpaid player in the NFL. 

If Hunter stays healthy, no doubt in my mind he'll live up to this contract. 

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