Superman(DH23) Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Here we are again with people not understanding what a "plot hole" even is. Writing choices you dont agree with are not plot holes. Not having your hand held for a character executing already demonstrated abilities is not a plot hole. It is a you problem, not a material problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Heimdallr said: When the directors come out and say the only reason they had Arya kill the NK is because nobody would expect it, there is absolutely no reason to dig into the lore or care about the story. Where did they say this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, mse326 said: Even so you are assuming the prophecy is not just correct but 100% correct as well as it's interpretation. But they have shown it to be at the very least misinterpreted a number of times. And they have shown at least two separate "gods" capable of magic (Lord of Light and God of Death). So either both exist, or are the same. If different then there is no reason the Lord of Light and the prophecy need to be the one to come to the rescue. It doesn't have to be true. If they are the same Arya was the only once to actually train to serve the God so can indeed fulfill the prophecy in a way that hadn't been thought of. Not true. There was one thing I brought up that I know for a fact Arya hasn't done but the Warrior of Light is supposed to do to become Azor Ahai and that is sacrifice their great love in order to bring forth (literally or figuratively) Lightbringer. A sacrifice has to be made for them to be truly Azor Ahai. That is not disputable. Dany sacrificed both her son and husband. Jon sacrificed Y'Gritte. It was the main point of Stannis sacrificing his daughter to become who he was meant to be only to find out he did it all for nothing because he was not Azor Ahai. Arya has never done this before. She has only ever been getting darker, and darker, and darker with her thoughts and intentions even discussed at one point of possibly killing Sansa if she betrayed Jon. Arya's character up until this season had shown she had lost her humanity and was too far gone to be anything other then a force of vengence. Then all of a sudden they did a 180 on her character. For the longest time she has shown to be selfish and only depend on herself to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEvans Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, pwny said: Where did they say this? After the episode on the summary of the episode. He wasnt twisting their words either, that's exactly what they said. That segment actually makes me bummed out more than episodes ever could. They just want to create those moments of shock, that's all they care about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: The Night King called off his men. Pretty obvious. They do what he says; that's been shown throughout the series. If he says "Don't move" to the wights, then they aren't moving until he says otherwise. He didn't call them off though. The dragon was still attacking Jon and all the of the characters still seemed to live through the thousands of stabs coming from the Wights. I suppose that might have been the case for the Wights directly surrounding him. But then again there was a long way from the main all to the Weirwood tree. If anything that should have been a Leroy Jenkins moment where she had like 10 thousand Wights in a train following her to get to the Night King. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeDenverGreatAgain Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: "How did the person who just silently avoided an entire room full of wights avoid more wights shortly after that?! It's just too unrealistic!" If that was what happened, you'd be right. But it's not what happened, so you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Not true. There was one thing I brought up that I know for a fact Arya hasn't done but the Warrior of Light is supposed to do to become Azor Ahai and that is sacrifice their great love in order to bring forth (literally or figuratively) Lightbringer. A sacrifice has to be made for them to be truly Azor Ahai. That is not disputable. Dany sacrificed both her son and husband. Jon sacrificed Y'Gritte. It was the main point of Stannis sacrificing his daughter to become who he was meant to be only to find out he did it all for nothing because he was not Azor Ahai. Arya has never done this before. She has only ever been getting darker, and darker, and darker with her thoughts and intentions even discussed at one point of possibly killing Sansa if she betrayed Jon. Arya's character up until this season had shown she had lost her humanity and was too far gone to be anything other then a force of vengence. Then all of a sudden they did a 180 on her character. For the longest time she has shown to be selfish and only depend on herself to survive. I mean if you are going to say they were sacraficed theyn you don't know what that means. Dany had no intention of killing either of them and Jon didn't kill/sacrifice Ygritte at all. Hell Arya sending Nymeria away after biting Joffrey and then letting her remain wild when she find her again because she had a pack is far closer to a sacrifice then anything Dany or Jon have done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, LeeEvans said: After the episode on the summary of the episode. He wasnt twisting their words either, that's exactly what they said. That segment actually makes me bummed out more than episodes ever could. They just want to create those moments of shock, that's all they care about. Honestly the only other thing I could possibly think of for the writers to twist this in their favor of making somewhat a bit of sense. Is that they harp on the fact that Robb was declared King in the North, thus making his siblings Princes and Princesses which would give her a loophole. H/e that wouldn't explain the other plot holes in the prophecy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, MakeDenverGreatAgain said: If that was what happened, you'd be right. But it's not what happened, so you're wrong. That's exactly what happened. She wasn't detected in the library because of her movements, or even by killing the other wight - she was detected because her blood was dripping, which was only to show how quiet she was, setting up the fact that she was able to sneak by the White Walkers on pure stealth alone. Why is this so hard to comprehend? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Honestly the only other thing I could possibly think of for the writers to twist this in their favor of making somewhat a bit of sense. Is that they harp on the fact that Robb was declared King in the North, thus making his siblings Princes and Princesses which would give her a loophole. H/e that wouldn't explain the other plot holes in the prophecy. The prophecy of the prince who was promised doesn't mean that the individual has to actually be a prince or princess according to men. He/she is a Prince(ss) on the basis of being the reincarnation of Azor Ahai and being sort of a Jesus figure to R'hllor. And again even if not true to the prophecy that isn't a plot hole. That just means the prophecy was wrong which is entirely possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, mse326 said: I mean if you are going to say they were sacraficed theyn you don't know what that means. Dany had no intention of killing either of them and Jon didn't kill/sacrifice Ygritte at all. Hell Arya sending Nymeria away after biting Joffrey and then letting her remain wild when she find her again because she had a pack is far closer to a sacrifice then anything Dany or Jon have done. She smothered Drogo to death when he was still alive even if it was a mercy killing. It was still a sacrifice, not to mention her son also was sacrificed to buy his life even if it was unintentional. Jon sacrificed Y'Gritte to serve the Nights Watch. That much is clear. Even if he wasn't responsible for her death he gave up a life with her to battle the Wildings and to combat the NK. That is sacrifice because he wound up causing her death. You want to talk about interpretations and misintrepratations. They both have given up far more then Arya. Also Arya let Nymeria remain free because it was a metaphor of neither of them being the one's they were before. Meaning she was heading back home to Winterfell. But she didn't really considered herself little Arya anymore, but grown into something else. She even smiled at this. That was not a sacrifice, but a sense of recognizing how far her journey has taken her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Honestly the only other thing I could possibly think of for the writers to twist this in their favor of making somewhat a bit of sense. Is that they harp on the fact that Robb was declared King in the North, thus making his siblings Princes and Princesses which would give her a loophole. H/e that wouldn't explain the other plot holes in the prophecy. They could explain it that since Arya is now "nobody", she is just a tool/weapon, and actually Bran is the prince. By saying Bran used his abilities to orchestrate everything and put Arya in that spot at that time, they can say Bran is really the one that "killed" the NK. Arya was just the weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, LeeEvans said: After the episode on the summary of the episode. He wasnt twisting their words either, that's exactly what they said. That segment actually makes me bummed out more than episodes ever could. They just want to create those moments of shock, that's all they care about. I just watched the summary again to make sure I didn't miss something, and that isn't what they said. They said that they kept Arya off-screen so that you would forget her and it would be shocking when she reappeared, not that she was chosen to shock viewers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, pwny said: Where did they say this? They didnt, the bts featurette specifically says they knew since season 3 that Arya was going to kill the NK (interesting choice of words here too, not decided, they knew, almost as if GRRM had told them at that point when he was still doing outlines that Arya was going to be the one to kill the NK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, mse326 said: The prophecy of the prince who was promised doesn't mean that the individual has to actually be a prince or princess according to men. He/she is a Prince(ss) on the basis of being the reincarnation of Azor Ahai and being sort of a Jesus figure to R'hllor. And again even if not true to the prophecy that isn't a plot hole. That just means the prophecy was wrong which is entirely possible. Yes it is. That's the way it came from the books. In the books it even states it has to be the 2nd child that was a prince or princess that would rise up and battle the Darkness. That's why Milessandre thought it was Stannis because he fit the bill so perfectly to her. It was just a feeling she got. Also the prophecy can't be wrong since it came from R'Hllor himself. Just be misinterpreted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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