Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[Daniel]

12 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Once we're a few days past the finale, I'm going to try to pick a GoT top 10.  Might need to do 12 or 15 depending on how much of the bottom of the list I think deserves to be included in the discussion.

I think I can pretty safely say mine won't change between now and then.

1. The Children

2. Blackwater

3. The Rains of Castamere

4. Hardhome

5. The Door

6. Valar Morghulis

7. The Mountain and the Viper

8. Two Swords

9. Mother's Mercy

10. The Watchers on the Wall

HM. The Winds of Winter

[pwny]

Holding out for Stannis to return. 

 

He never died, guys. It’s all been a ruse!

[THE DUKE]

2 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I think I can pretty safely say mine won't change between now and then.

I doubt mine changes either, but I'll at least give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume the finale won't make it. 

[Calvert28]

9 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

And that council kept failing her and her peaceful option was taken away by Jon's heritage being revealed. She felt she had no other choice but to make a demonstration of power and put fear into the rest of Westeros, especially anyone who would try to back Jon.

Burning the Red Keep to cinders would be a statement. That was just cruel and even Dany placed the needs of the people above her own.

[thrILL!]

3 hours ago, pwny said:

Dany has always had these murderous tendencies. She even said in Season 2 that she was going to burn King’s Landing to the ground. She’s just always been held in check by Jorah and Mes, who always reminded her to not bring things to that point.

Now, all she had left around her was yes man Greyworm, a Hand she no longer trusts, and a lover who she knows doesn’t love her. Her center and moral compass were literally murdered in front of her. 

Exactly.  Ppl are conveniently forgetting that she murdered innocent ppl in Mereen too.  She didn’t have her ppl vet who was involved with crucifying all those children.  They just snatched up the exact number of men as there were kids and had them crucified.  I’m sure a large portion of them may have had something to with it but she didn’t care either way. She was sending a message.  She only cares about those who bend the knee; everyone else is toast.

After the victory over the NK, she watched everyone show Jon love that she will never see from the North.  She tried to make a gesture to them by making Genndry official.  She did it independently without Jon and while it was cheered, it didn’t accomplish what she wanted- some kind of acceptance from the North.  She didn’t do it for Genndry; she did it for herself.  Maybe she was expecting Jon to stand next to her and endorse this like it came from them both.  That actually might have made a huge difference to the ppl but Jon was already distancing himself from her and she felt it.  Once he rejected her again in private, scorched earth from her was the only outcome bcuz fear is all she has left.

Ppl on here posting about all the speeches to her followers simply being political rhetoric and not what she actually planned to do.  First of all, she’s a spoiled brat of a princess with enough entitlement issues to fill Westeros.  She’s not a political wunderkind.  

2nd of all, do you really believe her followers are savvy enough to differentiate between rhetoric and truth?  Do you think the Unsullied are?  The Dothraki?  LoL get outta here.  She’s been gassing them up for the longest time and they finally got unleashed.  We’ve seen in our political climate what “rhetoric” can do when the average Joe feels emboldened by it and actually does things. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by thrILL!

[Daniel]

5 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

I doubt mine changes either, but I'll at least give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume the finale won't make it. 

They had the benefit of the doubt for a while.  It's gone now.

The last episode might be good, it might be shocking, but with the consistently poor writing, there's no realistic way it comes close to the top 10.  Winds of Winter had Cersei annihilating half the cast, Tommen's swan dive, and (pre-Long Night) the best piece of music the show has done so far, and it's an honorable mention.

[Calvert28]

7 hours ago, JonStark said:

This. It obviously could've been done better had it not been rushed, but people acting like it came out of no where already had their mind up they were going to dislike whatever the outcome was. 

The point is, she did have the urge the entire time. She lost Jorah, Missandei, two of her dragons, and her claim in a shot time span because of (in her mind) her suppressing that urge. Why is it so outlandish to see that all of that could be enough to finally get her to give in to it? Hint: It's not. 

Hint: she just did something her Father only contemplated once to do. He even thought that by burning the city to the ground he would be reborn a dragon to vanquish his enemies.

So she just literally murdered over or near a million people possibly because she thought it was the only course of action? That sounds like a decisive plan and what she did was anything but. Youre right in this episode it showed her giving into an urge to just to watch everything burn. So now we've gone in the span of two episodes from breaker of chains to this

[Calvert28]

11 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

Exactly.  Ppl are conveniently forgetting that she murdered innocent ppl in Mereen too.  She didn’t have her ppl vet who was involved with crucifying all those children.  They just snatched up the exact number of men as there were kids and had them crucified.  I’m sure a large portion of them may have had something to with it but she didn’t care either way. She was sending a message.  She only cares about those who bend the knee; everyone else is toast.

After the victory over the NK, she watched everyone show Jon love that she will never see from the North.  She tried to make a gesture to them by making Genndry official.  She did it independently without Jon and while it was cheered, it didn’t accomplish what she wanted- some kind of acceptance from the North.  She didn’t do it for Genndry; she did it for herself.  Maybe she was expecting Jon to stand next to her and endorse this like it came from them both.  That actually might have made a huge difference to the ppl but Jon was already distancing himself from her and she felt it.  Once he rejected her again in private, scorched earth from her was the only outcome bcuz fear is all she has left.

Ppl on here posting about all the speeches to her followers simply being political rhetoric and not what she actually planned to do.  First of all, she’s a spoiled brat of a princess with enough entitlement issues to fill Westeros.  She’s not a political wunderkind.  

2nd of all, do you really believe her followers are savvy enough to differentiate between rhetoric and truth?  Do you think the Unsullied are?  The Dothraki?  LoL get outta here.  She’s been gassing them up for the longest time and they finally got unleashed.  We’ve seen in our political climate what “rhetoric” can do when the average Joe feels emboldened by it and actually does things. 

There is a difference between murdering some Dotharki Warlords, slave Masters who feed children to animals for their amusement, and people who are just average citizens who don't delve in slavery, make war, or whjo have done anything to Dany.

Dany says the people love Jon. How is it the people of Kings Landing love Jon? They don't even know Jon and that's her justification by the writers? Outside of the North none even knows who he is and she just leveled the most powerful army in Westeros and got her revenge and sent a message burning down the RedKeep.

"But she's had urges, she had these urges!"- Yea and she's given into those urges, she didn't burn Mereen to the ground, she crucified 163 people in retalation and to make a point. Where were her advisors again? Where was Missendai? Jorah, Grey Worm? None of them talked her out of that. Not even Ser Barristan. Well she gave into her urges and did what she wanted to do.

It was the same thing with the siege of Mereen. 

Same especially in Vaes Dothrak. These people abandoned her, tried to kill her, left her for dead, or tried to take her back to VD to become a priestess. She didn't burn their entire army to the ground, she didn't burn the citizens and she already lost Jorah again as well as Ser Barristan.

When she lost Ser Barristan, she didn't have the council in her ears and she didn't burn all the Masters in retaliation. She burned one alive in a show of force. Tactful.

That was tactful, and regardless she has always been tactful with her urges. Even when she has lost people she has loved and respected. There was still a chance to become more popular then Jon after what she just did and she completely ignored it for a urge that even in her most dire situations where everyone abandoned her she didn't give into.

[thrILL!]

30 minutes ago, Daniel said:

They had the benefit of the doubt for a while.  It's gone now.

The last episode might be good, it might be shocking, but with the consistently poor writing, there's no realistic way it comes close to the top 10.  Winds of Winter had Cersei annihilating half the cast, Tommen's swan dive, and (pre-Long Night) the best piece of music the show has done so far, and it's an honorable mention.

No matter how great or awful it is, it’s still going to have fans all over the place on it.  I’m hoping for some things that are so cool that it helps take the sting out of this season’s inconsistencies.  

I know Jon is still very submissive to Dany and despite him finally realizing that the cuckoo has left her clock, it wouldn’t surprise me if he still tells her that she’s his queen.  I would hope not.  But how cool would it be if she brings him before her the way she pronounced judgement on Varys?  Drogon blazes him with fire and he’s still standing there.  Everyone sees this happen and they see her stunned.  Then Bran wargs into Drogon and eats Dany.  Jon leaves for the North and Sansa takes command of Westeros. 

Oh we can still dream...

Edited May 14, 2019 by thrILL!

[Calvert28]

7 hours ago, oldman9er said:

In most of those seasons, Dany didn't watch her best bud get her head separated from her body in defiance of her presence. She had lost so many and so much that was dear to her. Her 2 dragons to Cersei. Jorah to the NK. Betrayals, a broken heart 5x over. Now to learn that Jon was not being honest with her. Knowing that even as she won at KL, her claim was tenuous, and the people hiding under Cersei's protection were just mindless sheep anyway. Her dream was now discovered as pretty unworthy of all her travels, losses, and other turmoils. She mad. 

It's not the way I wanted this to go. It was no guarantee that she would or even should snap... but in this fantasy-land television show.. she did. Jon was a fool at that point to open his big yap about who he was.. and he doubled down on telling his family when he did. Is what it is.

Outrage may be good for venting purposes, but it is rather futile. People act like the show owes them something. The entitlement is out of hand these days.

She lost alot in previous seasons as well. She didn't go off the rails like she did in this one. Also she knew Jon was going to do that, he told her he would and after that display with Cersei he made that abundantly clear that's just who he is. So how was she somehow surprised by what he did? She completely ignored part of his character that he's famous for? Jon did what he's always done she had to expect that.

This is not even my biggest gripe about the episode. But for her just to give into that urge with no tact it is not Dany.

[Calvert28]

4 hours ago, The LBC said:

A force?  The manpower sure, but she didn't have ships.

Ahhh but keep in mind, every slaver from Qarth to Volantis was willing to give her ships just to get her the hell out of there. They offered it to her a few times throughout the seasons.

[Calvert28]

10 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

No matter how great or awful it is, it’s still going to have fans all over the place on it.  I’m hoping for some things that are so cool that it helps take the sting out of this season’s inconsistencies.  

I know Jon is still very submissive to Dany and despite him finally realizing that the cuckoo has left her clock, it wouldn’t surprise me if he still tells her that she’s his queen.  I would hope not.  But how cool would it be if she brings him before her the way she pronounced judgement on Varys?  Drogon blazes him with fire and he’s still standing there.  Everyone sees this happen and they see her stunned.  Then Bran wargs into Drogon and eats Dany.  Jon leaves for the North and Sansa takes command of Westeros. 

Oh we can still dream...

How about just have Dany win, with either Jon killing Arya to defend or dying in the process. Cause you know Arya is going after her, she just got added to her new list.

[seminoles1]

53 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Burning the Red Keep to cinders would be a statement. That was just cruel and even Dany placed the needs of the people above her own.

Yes, it was cruel, but just taking out the Red Keep doesn't show that you'll do anything to take and keep this power. It just shows that she wanted to kill Cersei.

Dany did this to put the true fear of God into every citizen so they won't even think about a rebellion. She has chosen to rule by fear.

Yes, just burning the Red Keep would have been powerful, but choosing to kill citizens was a demonstration. An over the top power move to hammer in her status and show that if you even think about defying her, no one in your family is safe.

She felt backed into a corner and that this was her only option to get what she wanted and what you have said before she has felt for her entire life is her birthright. Burning the Red Keep and killing Cersei would get her the throne, but doing what she did insured (at least in her mind) that no one would try to take it from her.

[Daniel]

39 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

No matter how great or awful it is, it’s still going to have fans all over the place on it.  I’m hoping for some things that are so cool that it helps take the sting out of this season’s inconsistencies.  

I know Jon is still very submissive to Dany and despite him finally realizing that the cuckoo has left her clock, it wouldn’t surprise me if he still tells her that she’s his queen.  I would hope not.  But how cool would it be if she brings him before her the way she pronounced judgement on Varys?  Drogon blazes him with fire and he’s still standing there.  Everyone sees this happen and they see her stunned.  Then Bran wargs into Drogon and eats Dany.  Jon leaves for the North and Sansa takes command of Westeros. 

Oh we can still dream...

Oh yeah.  As disappointing as this season has been, it's likely the only ending to the series we'll ever see, so I'm still going to watch it.  If for no other reason than to watch Jon and Dany finally both die.

But yeah, I think my problem is that I keep getting my hopes up.  If I had known how bad this season was going to be at the outset, I could have gone in with lower expectations and just enjoyed the fights and explosions and boobs without expecting more.

I'm personally expecting Jon to be super conflicted, tell Dany about his problems with what she does, and get killed for it.  Arya gets her, but too late, they both die.  Grey Worm probably does some soul searching, and realizes he and Dany were both huge dicks, and accepts Tyrion as the new leader.  He brings in Sansa, and they are the new power couple in Westeros, probably forging an alliance with Gendry, Sam/Bronn, and whoever's left in the Vale and the Riverlands to tie up the loose ends.  Semi-united kingdom, no one ruler.

Drogon flies off into the sunset.  Really though, he probably dies.

If Tyrion dies, **** this show.

[Daniel]

19 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Yes, it was cruel, but just taking out the Red Keep doesn't show that you'll do anything to take and keep this power. It just shows that she wanted to kill Cersei.

Just burning Harrenhal was enough for Aegon to scare the Riverlands into submission.  Thousands would have died, and it would absolutely have scared everyone into getting in line with Dany too.