MistaBohmbastic Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 On 10/5/2018 at 4:31 AM, Kiwibrown said: Hue isn't an adaptive coach, he is a guy who runs his system irrespective of whether it is appropriate. This is demonstrated by playing kizer over et al, demanding Kessler throw the deep ball when that isn't his game. Greg is equally as rigid imo he will probably start crying about not having another good corner with Mitchell down. Adapt, improvise, survive you sad sack. Playing Kizer demonstrates this? Because he started over Kessler and Hogan? Come on lol. He was backed into a corner, Kizer was the best QB in the preseason, and he clearly has the most "talent" of the three. I think with Kessler, we all know this team was going nowhere unless the ball went downfield more frequently. He was playing things far too "safe" for success in the NFL. Don't tell me you didn't want him to throw downfield more. It was agonizing to watch. You say "it wasn't his game," well are there any QB's in the NFL's recent history who have made a great career in the league where throwing downfield wasn't their game? Dak comes to mind for me, and he's one of the worst QB's in football right now. Hue wanted to develop him into something because that was all he had to work with. There's more viewpoints to this than he simply doesn't adapt. I won't say he is great at adapting, but your reasoning doesn't tell me he isn't, either. It's just so hard to judge because of the lack of talent he's had to work with in his tenure here. I will absolutely agree with you on Gregg. My concern for this Sunday is that Rivers has been the best QB when facing pressure this season. If Gregg doesn't turn down the dial on blitzes Sunday, we could be in for a tough day defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: Playing Kizer demonstrates this? Because he started over Kessler and Hogan? Come on lol. He was backed into a corner, Kizer was the best QB in the preseason, and he clearly has the most "talent" of the three. I think with Kessler, we all know this team was going nowhere unless the ball went downfield more frequently. He was playing things far too "safe" for success in the NFL. Don't tell me you didn't want him to throw downfield more. It was agonizing to watch. You say "it wasn't his game," well are there any QB's in the NFL's recent history who have made a great career in the league where throwing downfield wasn't their game? Dak comes to mind for me, and he's one of the worst QB's in football right now. Hue wanted to develop him into something because that was all he had to work with. There's more viewpoints to this than he simply doesn't adapt. I won't say he is great at adapting, but your reasoning doesn't tell me he isn't, either. It's just so hard to judge because of the lack of talent he's had to work with in his tenure here. I will absolutely agree with you on Gregg. My concern for this Sunday is that Rivers has been the best QB when facing pressure this season. If Gregg doesn't turn down the dial on blitzes Sunday, we could be in for a tough day defensively. Much like Baker this year Kessler didn't get 1st team reps last year so playing the hindsight game I can't say I trust Hue played the QB who gave us the best chance to win. We all know Kessler had no arm and seemed lucky to complete what he did so it just came down to the QB who will lose you game vs the QB who won't win you game. This year the QB who won't lose you games beat out the QB who will win you games. I'm gonna go ahead and say Hue shouldn't have started the Rookie last year and should have this year. Sometimes that coin flip works for you, sometimes it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Much like Baker this year Kessler didn't get 1st team reps last year so playing the hindsight game I can't say I trust Hue played the QB who gave us the best chance to win. We all know Kessler had no arm and seemed lucky to complete what he did so it just came down to the QB who will lose you game vs the QB who won't win you game. This year the QB who won't lose you games beat out the QB who will win you games. I'm gonna go ahead and say Hue shouldn't have started the Rookie last year and should have this year. Sometimes that coin flip works for you, sometimes it doesn't. I can't knock the rationale behind these decisions though. Kessler and Hogan were our backups last year. It was the absolute worst QB room in the NFL, possibly of all time. I'm certain they didn't want to start Kizer, hence the lack of reps you mentioned, but they were just THAT bad. This year, they specifically went out and brought in Tyrod, who they believed could be their bridge QB, and they treated him like so. They wanted him to be the best QB he could be, and he was the starter, hence why he got all the first team reps. Look, I understand why people are unhappy with how these things played out, but again, I just don't see why anyone should be hating on the logic behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 29 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: Playing Kizer demonstrates this? Because he started over Kessler and Hogan? Come on lol. He was backed into a corner, Kizer was the best QB in the preseason, and he clearly has the most "talent" of the three. Kessler is the better qb imo, more accurate better at decision making, better at not losing the ball. Weak armed, but he wasn't the turnover machine that kizer is/was. I thought the best pass of last preseason was a seem to njoku that Kessler hit. Better read better throw than anything kizer did. 29 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: I think with Kessler, we all know this team was going nowhere unless the ball went downfield more frequently. He was playing things far too "safe" for success in the NFL. Don't tell me you didn't want him to throw downfield more. It was agonizing to watch. You say "it wasn't his game," well are there any QB's in the NFL's recent history who have made a great career in the league where throwing downfield wasn't their game? Dak comes to mind for me, and he's one of the worst QB's in football right now. Hue wanted to develop him into something because that was all he had to work with. There's more viewpoints to this than he simply doesn't adapt. Il not saying he was a pro bowler just better than kizer, I am not staying he was taking us to the playoffs or anything. Kizer still has more potential than Kessler, but he is half the qb of Kessler. 29 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: I won't say he is great at adapting, but your reasoning doesn't tell me he isn't, either. It's just so hard to judge because of the lack of talent he's had to work with in his tenure here. The decision to start kizer was a co.mitment to scheme not winning imo. 29 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: I will absolutely agree with you on Gregg. My concern for this Sunday is that Rivers has been the best QB when facing pressure this season. If Gregg doesn't turn down the dial on blitzes Sunday, we could be in for a tough day defensively. Rush larry, ogbbah, myles and avery, drop 7, we are covering well atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Kessler is the better qb imo, more accurate better at decision making, better at not losing the ball. Weak armed, but he wasn't the turnover machine that kizer is/was. I thought the best pass of last preseason was a seem to njoku that Kessler hit. Better read better throw than anything kizer did. Il not saying he was a pro bowler just better than kizer, I am not staying he was taking us to the playoffs or anything. Kizer still has more potential than Kessler, but he is half the qb of Kessler. The decision to start kizer was a co.mitment to scheme not winning imo. Rush larry, ogbbah, myles and avery, drop 7, we are covering well atm. Woah woah woah...No way. Kessler was terrible. He relieved Kizer numerous times last year, and just when you think he starts to make plays, he takes a sack, then another, and another. HORRIBLE. He didn't turn the ball over, sure. He also barely even moved the ball with the exception of a pass here or there. You say Kizer had more potential, that's exactly why they played him. Neither of them were "the guy," but you gotta go with the one who has the best chance of being that guy, there were no bridge QB's on that roster. You seriously disagree? I love ya dude but there's just no way you can't see that logic. As for your defensive philosophy there, I can't argue with it. Here's the problem: Gregg still has the highest blitz percentage in football by a significant margin. I think he would argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Yeah there’s a reason why Kessler is selling cars right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Yeah there’s a reason why Kessler is selling cars right now. Cody is backing up Bortles and plays his home games in nice weather. Kizer is backing up Rodgers in GB. Win for Cody there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: Woah woah woah...No way. Kessler was terrible. He relieved Kizer numerous times last year, and just when you think he starts to make plays, he takes a sack, then another, and another. HORRIBLE. He didn't turn the ball over, sure. He also barely even moved the ball with the exception of a pass here or there. You say Kizer had more potential, that's exactly why they played him. Neither of them were "the guy," but you gotta go with the one who has the best chance of being that guy, there were no bridge QB's on that roster. You seriously disagree? I love ya dude but there's just no way you can't see that logic. As for your defensive philosophy there, I can't argue with it. Here's the problem: Gregg still has the highest blitz percentage in football by a significant margin. I think he would argue. Kessler really only played in one game, he was inactive most of the year. He had 1 and 5 pass attempts in the other 2 games he appeared in. Was he great in his one game? Nope. We lost in O.T. I think we would have won a few games with Kessler and probably wouldn't have Baker right now if that had been the case so it was the right choice in the long run but as far as wanting to win games last year Kizer wasn't the right choice. Kessler had a bad camp and played 3rd and 4th string all preseason. So he never got a shot. Just like this year with Baker, but at least he was second string after week 1 of the preseason. Kessler wasn't our future but I wanted to see a win or two so I'll take the accurate weak armed guy who takes too many sacks over the turnover machine. As would just about any HC in the league. Also Brock was our bridge, it just collapsed. Then Hogan became our backup because, well, I dunno. It wasn't a great QB room but you could have figured out an offense with Kessler that could have at least kept us in more games. Heck, we could have had a better game plan with Kizer, it would have been run, run, run, run, playaction, run, run, run. Hue was terrible last year and that Jacksonville game is all of the proof in the world and was when I lost any faith in him. In a rainstorm against one of the worst teams against the run we pass all day long against the best pass defense in the league. We were still in the game in the 4th quarter because of our defense but our last 4 possessions were Kizer pick (3 points), Kizer fumble (defense holds), Kizer fumbled (returned for a TD) and a turnover on downs. If we would have punted the entire 4th quarter whenever we got the ball we had a much better chance at winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 23 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: Woah woah woah...No way. Kessler was terrible. He relieved Kizer numerous times last year, and just when you think he starts to make plays, he takes a sack, then another, and another. HORRIBLE. He didn't turn the ball over, sure. He also barely even moved the ball with the exception of a pass here or there. Kesslers best start CLE @ TEN L 26-28 * 26 41 63.41 336 2 0 105.3 6 36 8.20 9.17 1 3 3.00 Kizers GNB L 21-27 * 20 28 71.43 214 3 2 99.4 2 5 7.64 6.57 2 7 3.50 0 0 Kesslers best gam was better than Kizers best game. Moreover comparing rookie years Kessler has a better, Td%, completion percentage, 12% more completions, int percentage kizers thows nearly 5x more ints, Yards per attempt, by a full yard. Kizer beats him in sack & by 1.7. Neither won a game, I am team Kessler because i think the data supported him more, last year he played poorly on 23 passes, but I am sure we could find 23 passes where Kizer was worse than Kessler. 23 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: You say Kizer had more potential, that's exactly why they played him. Neither of them were "the guy," but you gotta go with the one who has the best chance of being that guy, there were no bridge QB's on that roster. bolded for truth. Last year I wanted to win a game, i thought kessler had more to offer, in 15 goes Kizer came close twice. 23 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: You seriously disagree? I love ya dude but there's just no way you can't see that logic. I think data supports Kessler, and i liked Kizer, if we started Kessler last year, no way he doesn't play by week 8 by the time he gets knocked out. He was conservative with the ball in his hands, and took too many hits. Kizer I don't think could see the field properly, he would chuck the ball into tripe coverage. PS If you loved me, you would love my logic. 23 minutes ago, MistaBohmbastic said: As for your defensive philosophy there, I can't argue with it. Here's the problem: Gregg still has the highest blitz percentage in football by a significant margin. I think he would argue. I see a cream bu i want to eat it, Greg sees an offense, he wants to blitz it. But yeah, I don't think logic is on Gregs side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @Kiwibrown @Thomas5737 I went to the games against Jax, Ten, and NYJ last season. I can't remember which of these ones it was, but there was a game where Kessler came in. He completed an incredible pass, I think it was to Njoku but I could be wrong. After that, he took some chances with inaccurate balls, and he took even more sacks. Those pass attempts you listed, Thomas, those don't count passing plays where he took a sack. And trust me, there were plenty. It was infuriating. Yes, Kizer was turnover prone. He also had his moments of promise. A near-flawless deep ball to Ricardo against DET, a valiant effort against PIT, etc. You guys are going by stats, but I know ya'll watched the games too. We were going nowhere with Kessler. With Kizer, there was, at the very least, a chance of him flourishing with better talent around him. The bottom line is he had more promise. The skillset was there, the consistency was most definitely not. Bottom BOTTOM line, they both suck right now, so I guess it's not even worth the debate. My only point in all this is that I can see the reasoning behind Hue starting Kizer over Kessler. I'm not saying you guys have to agree, but it's understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Baker hates this conversation. He’d like neither to be his backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I agree @MistaBohmbastic If the question is who to start Kizer or Kessler then the solution comes in next years draft. thankfully baker has looked 1st overallish so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: Concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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