DaBoys Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/introducing-rate-adjusted-pressure "Guest columnist Ajit Kirpekar applies machine learning techniques to pressure rates from a dozen NFL seasons and comes up with some interesting conclusions -- most notably, that quarterbacks might be even more responsible than we thought for the pressure they do or do not face." Would you looky there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, plan9misfit said: My argument is that he’s in the Andy Dalton / Derek Carr / Kirk Cousins “not worth the high contract” territory. High contract QB salaries do inhibit a team’s ability to be successful, but my opinion is rooted more on him rather than his overall impact to the team. He hasn’t shown a consistant ability to place a team on his shoulders and win with limited talent around him, so paying him is a risk. 2 This is an argument I think is fair, even if I disagree with it. That's what I was trying to get at. I think saying "look, Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Rodgers missed the playoffs" really undermines that point you are trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, plan9misfit said: My argument is that he’s in the Andy Dalton / Derek Carr / Kirk Cousins “not worth the high contract” territory. High contract QB salaries do inhibit a team’s ability to be successful, but my opinion is rooted more on him rather than his overall impact to the team. He hasn’t shown a consistant ability to place a team on his shoulders and win with limited talent around him, so paying him is a risk. And you’re 100% correct: teams are seeing more success with QBs on rookie deals, which partially correlates to having the opportunity to pay more surrounding talent. But, isn’t that the core concept which supports the “team game” philosophy that we all know, anyway? Here is my beef. You are stating that he is in the "Andy Dalton / Derek Carr / Kirk Cousins". Fine. I even brought up before the point about the "Dalton line" and that he is above it. But you call *DAK* by the name of the biggest abomination in our teams history. You say *DAK* isnt an NFL QB. You state *DAK* cant throw the ball more than 6 yards. Do you see the discrepancy? Dak, when he has an OL, is a borderline top 10 QB. When his OL sucks, his footwork goes to ish leading to dumb sacks and errant throws. You can win a superbowl with Dak Prescott. Therefor, he is a Franchise QB. Just like Eli and a plethora of other "average" QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, DaBoys said: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/introducing-rate-adjusted-pressure "Guest columnist Ajit Kirpekar applies machine learning techniques to pressure rates from a dozen NFL seasons and comes up with some interesting conclusions -- most notably, that quarterbacks might be even more responsible than we thought for the pressure they do or do not face." Would you looky there. Who is "We" and what did "We" "think"? That is about as vague as you can be. You think the QB is 100% at fault. So according to this, you now think the QB is 200% more at fault? Thats not even possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Do you see the discrepancy? Dak, when he has an OL, is a borderline top 10 QB. When his OL sucks, his footwork goes to ish leading to dumb sacks and errant throws. His footwork sucks on the drop back. Which is before the OL has a chance to negatively effect the play. It's not the OLs fault. Or the WRs fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Who is "We" and what did "We" "think"? That is about as vague as you can be. You think the QB is 100% at fault. So according to this, you now think the QB is 200% more at fault? Thats not even possible. I'd assume "we" is the layman(which is you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, DaBoys said: His footwork sucks on the drop back. Which is before the OL has a chance to negatively effect the play. It's not the OLs fault. Or the WRs fault. His drop back is fine. Watch it. He consistently gets ~5 yards on his 3 step, which is by far his most common drop. Just now, DaBoys said: I'd assume "we" is the layman(which is you.) I dont layman. Sorry, your going to have to find another dude for your "we". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Matts4313 said: His drop back is fine. Watch it. He consistently gets ~5 yards on his 3 step, which is by far his most common drop. I dont layman. Sorry, your going to have to find another dude for your "we". His drop back is ridged and inconsistent. Even he recognizes he needs work on it. Only his blind lovers can't see that. You are the perfect "we." As you don't understand that the QB is near totally responsible for the pressure he faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, DaBoys said: His drop back is ridged and inconsistent. Even he recognizes he needs work on it. Only his blind lovers can't see that. You are the perfect "we." As you don't understand that the QB is near totally responsible for the pressure he faces. Ok smart guy. Answer me this. Why are LT one of the highest paid/highest drafted positions in football? Why are DE one of the highest paid/highest drafted positions in football? If the trenches dont matter, its just a matter of the QB, we absolutely should let Lawrence and Smith walk right? @plan9misfit => Do you want to explain to him why the trenches matter when it comes to pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, DaBoys said: near totally responsible. Even as someone who is definitely on the "Dak takes a lot of sacks that are his fault" train, this made me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Ok smart guy. Answer me this. Why are LT one of the highest paid/highest drafted positions in football? Why are DE one of the highest paid/highest drafted positions in football? If the trenches dont matter, its just a matter of the QB, we absolutely should let Lawrence and Smith walk right? @plan9misfit => Do you want to explain to him why the trenches matter when it comes to pressure? Oh yeah and how much are QBs getting paid? Compared to DEs? Compared to LTs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Nextyearfordaboyz said: Even as someone who is definitely on the "Dak takes a lot of sacks that are his fault" train, this made me laugh. Explain Brady, Brees, and Peyton Manning and other pocket QBs who notoriously never take sacks? Vs. The guys who are high on the sack list. Mostly young, mobile QBs. Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Dak, Watson. Laugh all you want. But it's clear that the TYPE of QB determines the sacks. Unless you think Peyton just traveled the league with the best OL in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Brady always has the best OL. Year in and year out. Laugh laugh laugh I so smart Peyton Manning always had a world class OL ha ha ha ha 5 syllable word. It's more coincidence that young, mobile, running QBs are always in the top list for sacks. Must be because they always have the leagues worst OL. Lmmfaolawl.... college! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Explain Brady, Brees, and Peyton Manning and other pocket QBs who notoriously never take sacks? Vs. The guys who are high on the sack list. Mostly young, mobile QBs. Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Dak, Watson. Laugh all you want. But it's clear that the TYPE of QB determines the sacks. Unless you think Peyton just traveled the league with the best OL in the world. Ok, you first explain to me why young QBs are more prone to sacks? Why as they age the number goes down? Why did Manning get sacked more in his younger years? Why did Brady literally have his worst year ever for sacks in his first starting? Is it possible that younger QBs, especially those with s*tty OLs, tend to not be as adept at avoiding sacks? That maybe, just maybe, young QBs do better when they have better protection? PS - Mahomes was only sacked like 26 times. So if you think its because they run a lot, you are wrong. PPS - Why was "getting romo friendly" about building up the OL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, DaBoys said: Brady always has the best OL. Year in and year out. Laugh laugh laugh I so smart Peyton Manning always had a world class OL ha ha ha ha 5 syllable word. It's more coincidence that young, mobile, running QBs are always in the top list for sacks. Must be because they always have the leagues worst OL. Lmmfaolawl.... college! Im so happy that my post disproving you was at the same exact time you wrote this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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