plan9misfit Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: And another time we argued about whether Junelius Jomes should get fat so he could run for 2000 yeards. That may have been the greatest (and funniest) debate in the history of this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Matts4313 said: We once fought for 3 months on if we should sacrifice an entire draft to move up for USC WR M Williams. Remember "prime time" and the Great DeMarco Murray "dime a dozen" debate a few years ago? I think that one drove @htfryar away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slamman Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 4 hours ago, plan9misfit said: That may have been the greatest (and funniest) debate in the history of this forum. The dude had a point... Clinton Portis was fat and ran for more yards than Julius. Hence if Julius just got fatter, he’d run for 2,000 yards. It’s irrefutable logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Y'all remember BowPhet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slamman Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 @Matts4313 you are going to love this... Seth Walder ESPN Analytics Ranking the playoff teams by pass block win rate: 1. Rams (1st overall) 2. Chiefs (3rd) 3. Patriots (4th) 4. Bears (6th) 5. Seahawks (8th) 6. Colts (10th) 7. Ravens (11th) 8. Cowboys (12th) 9. Chargers (13th) 10. Texans (16th) 11. Eagles (19th) 12. Saints (20th) Pass Block Win Rate is an ESPN metric powered by NFL Next Gen Stats. This is what I’ve been talking about... Just because Dak takes a lot of sacks does NOT mean he’s been getting less time to throw than your average NFL QB. As it turns out Dallas ranks 12th in the NFL in pass block win rate. Now check this out... https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw Dak averages 2.82 seconds per throw which ranks in the bottom third of NFL QBs. You want to know why Brees and Brady don’t take sacks? Because they have the ball out in 2.6 seconds on average. The saints are ranked 20th in pass block win percentage but Brees gets the ball out at a much faster rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plan9misfit Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 hours ago, D82 said: Y'all remember BowPhet? You mean @The_Slamman‘s buddy? He and RatMan/TheRat were really entertaining people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plan9misfit Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 11 hours ago, The_Slamman said: @Matts4313 you are going to love this... Seth Walder ESPN Analytics Ranking the playoff teams by pass block win rate: 1. Rams (1st overall) 2. Chiefs (3rd) 3. Patriots (4th) 4. Bears (6th) 5. Seahawks (8th) 6. Colts (10th) 7. Ravens (11th) 8. Cowboys (12th) 9. Chargers (13th) 10. Texans (16th) 11. Eagles (19th) 12. Saints (20th) Pass Block Win Rate is an ESPN metric powered by NFL Next Gen Stats. This is what I’ve been talking about... Just because Dak takes a lot of sacks does NOT mean he’s been getting less time to throw than your average NFL QB. As it turns out Dallas ranks 12th in the NFL in pass block win rate. Now check this out... https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw Dak averages 2.82 seconds per throw which ranks in the bottom third of NFL QBs. You want to know why Brees and Brady don’t take sacks? Because they have the ball out in 2.6 seconds on average. The saints are ranked 20th in pass block win percentage but Brees gets the ball out at a much faster rate. As you and I have said, the sacks are primarily on him because he has zero pocket awareness and holds the ball for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 6 hours ago, plan9misfit said: 6 hours ago, The_Slamman said: Ranking the playoff teams by pass block win rate: 1. Rams (1st overall) 2. Chiefs (3rd) 3. Patriots (4th) 4. Bears (6th) 5. Seahawks (8th) 6. Colts (10th) 7. Ravens (11th) 8. Cowboys (12th) 9. Chargers (13th) 10. Texans (16th) 11. Eagles (19th) 12. Saints (20th) Pass Block Win Rate is an ESPN metric powered by NFL Next Gen Stats. This is what I’ve been talking about... Just because Dak takes a lot of sacks does NOT mean he’s been getting less time to throw than your average NFL QB. As it turns out Dallas ranks 12th in the NFL in pass block win rate. Now check this out... https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw Dak averages 2.82 seconds per throw which ranks in the bottom third of NFL QBs. You want to know why Brees and Brady don’t take sacks? Because they have the ball out in 2.6 seconds on average. The saints are ranked 20th in pass block win percentage but Brees gets the ball out at a much faster rate. As you and I have said, the sacks are primarily on him becuase he has zero pocket awareness and holds the ball for too long. You can search for stats that fit the narrative. The Cowboys OL is objectively bad in pass protection. PFF ranks them 28th for pass blocking and says they are at fault for 41 sacks this year. Another site with different people attributed 14 sacks to Dak, meaning the OL was to blame for 42 sacks. We all know that Dak needs to be better, and quicker, with his reads. So you arent showing anything new. Ive already said that Dak is also to blame. Unless this is another attempt to turn a blind eye to how atrocious our OL has been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slamman Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: You can search for stats that fit the narrative. The Cowboys OL is objectively bad in pass protection. PFF ranks them 28th for pass blocking and says they are at fault for 41 sacks this year. Another site with different people attributed 14 sacks to Dak, meaning the OL was to blame for 42 sacks. We all know that Dak needs to be better, and quicker, with his reads. So you arent showing anything new. Ive already said that Dak is also to blame. Unless this is another attempt to turn a blind eye to how atrocious our OL has been? It’s not turning a blind eye... to the contrary. Its pointing out on an objective basis that our offensive line this year has been a standard NFL offensive line. Pass block win rate is purely a time based equation. The cowboys rank 12th in pass block win rate. In other words the cowboys OL is a little better than average in giving Dak time to throw. Dak, however, undeniably takes longer than average to actually throw the ball. Again, that .2 second difference in Dak holding the ball is the difference between taking 50 sacks and only taking 17 sacks. Dak has been getting the NFL standard in getting time to throw; he simply holds on to the ball longer than standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 38 minutes ago, The_Slamman said: It’s not turning a blind eye... to the contrary. Its pointing out on an objective basis that our offensive line this year has been a standard NFL offensive line. Pass block win rate is purely a time based equation. The cowboys rank 12th in pass block win rate. In other words the cowboys OL is a little better than average in giving Dak time to throw. Dak, however, undeniably takes longer than average to actually throw the ball. Again, that .2 second difference in Dak holding the ball is the difference between taking 50 sacks and only taking 17 sacks. Dak has been getting the NFL standard in getting time to throw; he simply holds on to the ball longer than standard. 2 objective basis have also stated that our OL is atrocious when it comes to pass blocking. You keep searching to find a stat that fits your narrative. You are so desperate you are now blaming it on .2 seconds. Its sad really. Especially on a playoff gameday. Its even more funny when you look at the list of time to throw. I guess Rodgers and Mahomes are terrible too. Go Cowboys! All of them, Including Dak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 9 hours ago, The_Slamman said: @Matts4313 you are going to love this... Seth Walder ESPN Analytics Ranking the playoff teams by pass block win rate: 1. Rams (1st overall) 2. Chiefs (3rd) 3. Patriots (4th) 4. Bears (6th) 5. Seahawks (8th) 6. Colts (10th) 7. Ravens (11th) 8. Cowboys (12th) 9. Chargers (13th) 10. Texans (16th) 11. Eagles (19th) 12. Saints (20th) Pass Block Win Rate is an ESPN metric powered by NFL Next Gen Stats. This is what I’ve been talking about... Just because Dak takes a lot of sacks does NOT mean he’s been getting less time to throw than your average NFL QB. As it turns out Dallas ranks 12th in the NFL in pass block win rate. Now check this out... https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw Dak averages 2.82 seconds per throw which ranks in the bottom third of NFL QBs. You want to know why Brees and Brady don’t take sacks? Because they have the ball out in 2.6 seconds on average. The saints are ranked 20th in pass block win percentage but Brees gets the ball out at a much faster rate. So you use 2 possible GOATS, who can't run and who have been in the NFL for a gazillion years more than Dak who is only in year 3??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slamman Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 56 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: 2 objective basis have also stated that our OL is atrocious when it comes to pass blocking. You keep searching to find a stat that fits your narrative. You are so desperate you are now blaming it on .2 seconds. Its sad really. Especially on a playoff gameday. Its even more funny when you look at the list of time to throw. I guess Rodgers and Mahomes are terrible too. Go Cowboys! All of them, Including Dak! See now you are just getting desperate for anything to support your narrative. Here’s a secret for you Matts... eventually all pass blocking will break down. Eventually even the best OLmen (Smith, Martin and Frederick) will allow pressure. Pass block win ratio measures the time to throw. It standardizes time to throw for every QB in the NFL. The Cowboys OL ranked 12th. Not great but better than average. See you are so used to seeing Romo and Dak getting 9 full seconds to throw the ball that you forget what an average NFL OL looks like. Again, our offensive line was slightly better than average... 12th. Dak was below average in holding onto the ball. now this is the part you are absolutely going to love... you mentioned a few QBs who took as long or longer than Dak to throw and said that they most really suck. No, that’s not how it works. How it works is risk vs reward. See, Mahomes and Rodgers took risk in holding onto the ball like Dak. The difference is the reward. Mahomes rewarded KC by throwing for 50 TDs. Dak “rewarded” Dallas being being the fumble leader in the the NFL. You get the point... the expectation rises when you take longer to throw the ball. Dak did not deliver in that regard. He had standard NFL time to throw the ball, he held on to the ball too long and did not deliver the big plays that come along with taking the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, The_Slamman said: See now you are just getting desperate for anything to support your narrative. Here’s a secret for you Matts... eventually all pass blocking will break down. Eventually even the best OLmen (Smith, Martin and Frederick) will allow pressure. Pass block win ratio measures the time to throw. It standardizes time to throw for every QB in the NFL. The Cowboys OL ranked 12th. Not great but better than average. See you are so used to seeing Romo and Dak getting 9 full seconds to throw the ball that you forget what an average NFL OL looks like. Again, our offensive line was slightly better than average... 12th. Dak was below average in holding onto the ball. now this is the part you are absolutely going to love... you mentioned a few QBs who took as long or longer than Dak to throw and said that they most really suck. No, that’s not how it works. How it works is risk vs reward. See, Mahomes and Rodgers took risk in holding onto the ball like Dak. The difference is the reward. Mahomes rewarded KC by throwing for 50 TDs. Dak “rewarded” Dallas being being the fumble leader in the the NFL. You get the point... the expectation rises when you take longer to throw the ball. Dak did not deliver in that regard. He had standard NFL time to throw the ball, he held on to the ball too long and did not deliver the big plays that come along with taking the risk. Dude, what part of I am not going to argue on playoff game day do you not understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slamman Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, resilient part 2 said: So you use 2 possible GOATS, who can't run and who have been in the NFL for a gazillion years more than Dak who is only in year 3??? Nope... I’m merely explaining how a QB (Brees) actually had less time to throw than Dak but took 2/3 less sacks than Dak. See Matts has been trying to spin a narrative that poor Dak just didn’t have time to throw the ball because the OL was below NFL standards. I’ve been saying that not true. The pass block win ratio strictly measures time. We had a slightly above average pass blocking OL. Granted what Brees did this year was truly phenomenal but that’s what you are going to need if you spend a huge portion of your salary cap on one player... a player who can make up for deficiencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 26 minutes ago, The_Slamman said: Nope... I’m merely explaining how a QB (Brees) actually had less time to throw than Dak but took 2/3 less sacks than Dak. See Matts has been trying to spin a narrative that poor Dak just didn’t have time to throw the ball because the OL was below NFL standards. I’ve been saying that not true. The pass block win ratio strictly measures time. We had a slightly above average pass blocking OL. Granted what Brees did this year was truly phenomenal but that’s what you are going to need if you spend a huge portion of your salary cap on one player... a player who can make up for deficiencies. There are so many factors that can account for all quarterback holding the ball on getting rid of it faster. Yes experience, yes the offensive line, but yes the personnel and system. For example how long does it take for receivers to get open ? what patterns do they run ? do you have a coach that can recognize a defense and call plays accordingly. There just seems to be too much of a narrative thrown on dak's plate and yet so much of football is based on so many other aspects. I would also love if we can keep Dax potential contract in a separate argument with what dak is as a actual quarterback. Regardless of how good not so good, great or bad we think Dak is, what he gets paid whether it's over pay perfect pay underpay has nothing to do with his actual abilities, you have two decisions of our gm and owner. I wish that topic would wait till the offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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