warfelg Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 20 minutes ago, jebrick said: Stop being mean 🤣 It's a double gut punch, as SD reports we passed because of small school concerns, took Green, and then this happens. But personally, I'm not for paying OG's this much. These recent contracts are not in growth with the cap, they are a job to it. I know I've gone through this before but the way record contracts are portrayed needs to be updated. So many of these contracts we freak out about like JJ getting $35MM AAV is in line with the growth in terms of percent of the cap relative to past "record breaking" WR contracts. OG's went from a place just 3-4 years ago where $8MM AAV was breaking the bank, when the cap was ~$195MM, which is ~4% of the cap. Now the top going rate is $20MM AAV on a ~$255MM cap, which means they now get ~8% of the cap. Compare that to Calvin Johnson getting that $20MM AAV contract which was 'record breaking', on a $143MM Cap was ~14% of the cap, and JJ's $35MM is ~14% of the cap, yet this is the number people freak out about of not paying but would a OG in a jump of percent of the cap just doesn't make sense to me. Making this on topic to us for a second: I would be fine letting Daniels walk, bringing in a challenger body to McCormick/Anderson next year, and let a position battle happen....depending on how they feel about the McCormick/Anderson development. And I'll add - last year we really got lucky with how healthy our OL was relatively. I think from starters we had 1 game missed? That's not going to happen again, so there is a betting chance that we will see Anderson and or McCormick on the field this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 My .02, but I think NFL teams are focusing more on interior pressure, specifically when you have so much movement skill at the QB position now. Look at the Chiefs in the super bowl and the way the 49ers wanted to play them. Bosa's role was to keep Mahomes in the pocket, not be a destroyer. The Allens, Herberts, Mahomes, etc of the world are so, so, so much more capable of breaking contain and still being deadly than the league was before. Edge pressure matters...but it's also easier to navigate and counter and if you can do that leads to big plays. There's nothing you can do with a 300lb+ dude in your face immediately. Protection from an O-line standpoint is at all time high. I'm not sure this is breaking the wheel on guard pay, but likely more of a "catching up" of sorts to really, really important pieces of keeping the feet of your QB clean. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 19 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: My .02, but I think NFL teams are focusing more on interior pressure, specifically when you have so much movement skill at the QB position now. Look at the Chiefs in the super bowl and the way the 49ers wanted to play them. Bosa's role was to keep Mahomes in the pocket, not be a destroyer. The Allens, Herberts, Mahomes, etc of the world are so, so, so much more capable of breaking contain and still being deadly than the league was before. Edge pressure matters...but it's also easier to navigate and counter and if you can do that leads to big plays. There's nothing you can do with a 300lb+ dude in your face immediately. Protection from an O-line standpoint is at all time high. I'm not sure this is breaking the wheel on guard pay, but likely more of a "catching up" of sorts to really, really important pieces of keeping the feet of your QB clean. I just don’t see the point worrying about $$$ when they don’t have to and your probably gonna either pay for Dak or trade up for a QB in the 2025 offseason…oh well it’s been discussed to hell and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 2 hours ago, Dcash4 said: My .02, but I think NFL teams are focusing more on interior pressure, specifically when you have so much movement skill at the QB position now. Look at the Chiefs in the super bowl and the way the 49ers wanted to play them. Bosa's role was to keep Mahomes in the pocket, not be a destroyer. The Allens, Herberts, Mahomes, etc of the world are so, so, so much more capable of breaking contain and still being deadly than the league was before. Edge pressure matters...but it's also easier to navigate and counter and if you can do that leads to big plays. There's nothing you can do with a 300lb+ dude in your face immediately. Protection from an O-line standpoint is at all time high. I'm not sure this is breaking the wheel on guard pay, but likely more of a "catching up" of sorts to really, really important pieces of keeping the feet of your QB clean. While I agree to an extent, players that can make interior pressure are rarer than decent EDGE rushers. If he needs to face C. Jones twice a year and he does well vs him then I can see them wanting to pay to keep him plus they have a rookie QB but still, it is a lot of money for someone who can get help from either a center or tackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I assume this is the place to put this, but just wanted to put out there, that I am finally making my trip to 'mecca' (otherwise known as 'Pittsburgh', to non-local Steelers fans) next month. I first became a Steelers' fan watching them beat the Cowboys in SB XIII, when I was a mere 7 years old, and have been a fan since, of course. Anyway, Staying at the Wyndham Grand, in a room with a view of the stadium (...and yes, I did choose this hotel/room for the sole purpose of being able to see Acrisure Stadium...). Sadly, I won't be seeing a game during this visit, but I've seen them play a couple of away games, in person, plus, I suspect I'll come back in a year or two to see a home game at some point. So, over the years, hearing about Primanti Brothers, we definitely will grab lunch there, but otherwise, it'll be a short stay. After 2 nights, we'll make our way through the rest of our trip through to Virginia, then after a night close to the WV/VA state line, we'll make our way down the Blue Ridge Parkway, into NC for a couple of nights, then make our way back to Indy via TN/KY. So, I wanted to ask if anyone has driven along the Laurel Highlands Scenic Byway. The plan is, to head due East out of Pittsburgh, and make our way towards Seward, before heading due South, along the 68-mile Scenic Byway. The ultimate goal, beyond finally making it to Pittsburgh, is to see some nice scenery, and hopefully escape some of the August heat by traveling along the mountains, and staying at some places at higher elevation. And I thought I'd check in here to see if anyone has driven through these scenic drives, and maybe point out some 'must sees' along the way. Thanks in advance!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 19 hours ago, jebrick said: players that can make interior pressure are rarer than decent EDGE rushers I agree with the quantity, but there are more ways than just having a top DT to take advantage of interior matchups. It's a copycat league, and with the hyper athletic Parsons and Garretts of the world getting wins against IOL's, I think that grows and grows with more modern DCs. I think we see more matchup hunting for the top rushers moving forward (paging Austin, Teryl). 21 hours ago, jebrick said: it is a lot of money for someone who can get help from either a center or tackle You can say the same thing for tackle, though, with chips, TEs, and RB help. Heck, you can add 2 steps to TJ just by putting a TE on his side because he will only play wider than the widest. The best ones are going to get paid and they are setting a rate that's more in-line with other premier pass protectors (IMO). Going back to the above, one on one matchups could become vastly more important if DC's are expanding into less traditional XYZ position lines up at XYZ position location. Anytime a player needs "help" it takes away from someone/something else. Matt Canada's max protect yankee concept is a great demo of that. I don't know, maybe I am way off -- but building inside out line play seems smart with the athleticism/movement increase we see at QB today and renewed focus on run schemes. Just a random aside, but I am very curious if over the next 2/3 years we see an increase of IOL players drafted in the first. It's been a "lesser than" position that gets hand waved to finding starters in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. If top market is $15-20M, I think teams are going to take the financial gain by drafted them earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Just a for the record: Sewell $28MM AAV as of this years cap is 11% of the cap. Average of the top 5 is 9.8%. Lane Johnson’s $18MM AAV in 2019 was 9.6% of the cap. Average of the top 5 is 9.2%. So in the last 6 months the value of a OG relative to the cap has doubled, but in 5 years OT’s have remained flat. I’ll go with the easiest explanation as to what happened - Cap spikes post COVID combined with rolling 3 year salary floors forced some teams to overspend to meet those requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 6 minutes ago, warfelg said: Just a for the record: Sewell $28MM AAV as of this years cap is 11% of the cap. Average of the top 5 is 9.8%. Lane Johnson’s $18MM AAV in 2019 was 9.6% of the cap. Average of the top 5 is 9.2%. So in the last 6 months the value of a OG relative to the cap has doubled, but in 5 years OT’s have remained flat. I’ll go with the easiest explanation as to what happened - Cap spikes post COVID combined with rolling 3 year salary floors forced some teams to overspend to meet those requirements. Some of it is also they have no one in the wings. Drafts did not work out and they are in a bind. I think Mieneriz is a good OG but it is quite big. As for the OT, They can get help but just as often, they are asked to be on an island. you pay big money for those OTs that can play on an island and not need help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 9 minutes ago, jebrick said: Some of it is also they have no one in the wings. Drafts did not work out and they are in a bind. I think Mieneriz is a good OG but it is quite big. As for the OT, They can get help but just as often, they are asked to be on an island. you pay big money for those OTs that can play on an island and not need help. I agree some of it is who’s in the wings, but forcing something like that would be mismanagement in addition IMO. It’s interesting that in 5 years only one position has seen its cap go up double and it’s OG yet we complain about all the “record breaking” deals elsewhere even though they are just in line with cap growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywlker32 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 25 minutes ago, warfelg said: I agree some of it is who’s in the wings, but forcing something like that would be mismanagement in addition IMO. It’s interesting that in 5 years only one position has seen its cap go up double and it’s OG yet we complain about all the “record breaking” deals elsewhere even though they are just in line with cap growth. I keep saying it, but they should be reporting these deals as a percentage of the cap somehow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 25 minutes ago, jebrick said: As for the OT, They can get help but just as often, they are asked to be on an island. you pay big money for those OTs that can play on an island and not need help. Wouldn't you agree that the less often you have to ask people to get help or double the better off you are as a team? I am just curious if teams are treating guard as more of an "O-line" position rather than a red-headed step child it seems most talk about it as. You are seeing more defenses contain the edge against big time QBs, which means the pressure needs to be created from somewhere. So is it teams going YOLO let's just spend money like fun coupons or is there data and trends that are leading them to say "hey, this is an important piece or the league is moving this way"? When it's teams like the Eagles (analytical leaders) and the Rams (notorious analytical team builders) making the moves at the position -- I believe it's likely the latter. Sometimes numbers at positions don't make sense just because of the precedent of it from the past. TE is a literal cheat code right now for a receiving threat because there is a $17M gap between the top pass catcher and the top TE. Travis Kelce has been the Chiefs X for the past how many years? Dalton Kincaid is going to be the Bills leading receiver. Trey McBride paced the Cardinals passing game. If I had to guess, that's the next jump. It's why I would run out the door to extend Muth now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I was curious because I didn't look into it myself: In 2021 the top 3 guys who signed or extended at guard had cap percentages of 8.77%, 8.77%, and 7.78% In 2024 they are 8.22%, 7.83%, and 7.83%. 2022 saw Nelson, Jenkins, and Scherff sign for $20M, $17M, and 16.5M, respectively per year. That equates to 9.61%, 8.17%, and 7.93% of the cap. The biggest contract in 2019 was 7.4% of the cap. Maybe the quantity of guys getting paid a higher percentage of the cap has changed (steadily increased over the 4 years from 2021 to 2024 with guys making over 2% of the cap), but honestly....those numbers are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 Interesting discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 https://x.com/Steelersdepot/status/1820157545404875163 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted August 4 Share Posted August 4 (edited) 5 minutes ago, warfelg said: https://x.com/Steelersdepot/status/1820157545404875163 Edited August 4 by jebrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.