State of our team

[BayRaider]

6 minutes ago, Dessie said:

You had us being a playoff team this year and Mack was untradeable, now it’s we had a terrible roster and we needed a rebuild. I wonder how many times you are going to keep flip flopping your stance.

With every loss Gruden has with his own roster it seems as though it makes last years roster even worse. Del Rio must have been a miracle worker to get 6 wins. 

I had us sneaking in the playoffs with Mack even with our lack of talent because Mack really is that good, and I thought Carr would look better under Gruden although was certainly wrong about that. I didn’t think we would sniff anything past the first round. Look at the Bears, Mack has been a crucial part of all of their wins. However, one DE is not a recipe for success, and I’ve been saying for a while this will catch up to the Bears. It makes them a wildcard contender and that’s it. 

[Dessie]

10 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I had us sneaking in the playoffs with Mack even with our lack of talent because Mack really is that good, and I thought Carr would look better under Gruden although was certainly wrong about that. I didn’t think we would sniff anything past the first round. Look at the Bears, Mack has been a crucial part of all of their wins. However, one DE is not a recipe for success, and I’ve been saying for a while this will catch up to the Bears. It makes them a wildcard contender and that’s it. 

So when did you think we needed a rebuild when you thought we would be a playoff team? 

[BayRaider]

5 minutes ago, Dessie said:

So you when did you think we needed a rebuild when you thought we would be a playoff team? 

Instead of passive aggressive questions, what makes you think this was anything close to a championship caliber roster? If we keep Mack, and Carr performa better in Grudens system, then we can possibly contend in the 9-10 win area, but our roster is still trash and we aren’t sniffing a Super Bowl. Can you explain your stance on it instead of being so obsessed with mine? Many fans had us winning 9 games with Mack and instantly changed to 5-6 wins after. 

Personally I agree with the tank approach. You get Nick Bosa. A cheap Mack for 5 years. Then you have the two first round picks from Mack from the Bears, so it almost looks free if we get Bosa. Then you have the 1st from Dallas for Cooper. Sorry, Cooper is trash. Let me guess, you thought we should of kept him too?

[Dessie]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Instead of passive aggressive questions, what makes you think this was anything close to a championship caliber roster? If we keep Mack, and Carr performa better in Grudens system, then we can possibly contend in the 9-10 win area, but our roster is still trash and we aren’t sniffing a Super Bowl. Can you explain your stance on it instead of being so obsessed with mine? Many fans had us winning 9 games with Mack and instantly changed to 5-6 wins after. 

Personally I agree with the tank approach. You get Nick Bosa. A cheap Mack for 5 years. Then you have the two first round picks from Mack from the Bears, so it almost looks free if we get Bosa. Then you have the 1st from Dallas for Cooper. Sorry, Cooper is trash. Let me guess, you thought we should of kept him too?

You said you have thought for ‘a while’ we needed a rebuild. Given that you also said that we were a playoff calibre  team I am asking  when you did you start to think we needed a rebuild. Not a difficult question is it ? 

[BayRaider]

5 minutes ago, Dessie said:

You said you have thought for ‘a while’ we needed a rebuild. Given that you also said that we were a playoff calibre  team I am asking  when you did you start to think we needed a rebuild. Not a difficult question is it ? 

Just because we can sneak into the playoffs every once in a while doesn’t mean we are not better off with a full rebuild. We wouldn’t of had a winning season with Mack anyways because Carr isn’t a fit in Grudens offense. 

[Dessie]

7 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Just because we can sneak into the playoffs every once in a while doesn’t mean we are not better off with a full rebuild. We wouldn’t of had a winning season with Mack anyways because Carr isn’t a fit in Grudens offense. 

Lol so when did you think we needed a rebuild, end of last season, when Gruden was hired, before the draft, before training camp, start of pre season, end of pre season or since we started the season? 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, Dessie said:

Lol so when did you think we needed a rebuild, end of last season, when Gruden was hired, before the draft, before training camp, start of pre season, end of pre season or since we started the season? 

Once again, what did you think we should of done? 

[Dessie]

Just now, BayRaider said:

Once again, what did you think we should of done? 

So you flopped on your stance with Mack and now you are back tracking on your ‘we’ve needed a rebuild for a while’ but you want us to take your comments seriously? 

As I said the excuses that are being trotted out for Gruden are getting more ridiculous every week.

[BayRaider]

8 minutes ago, Dessie said:

So you flopped on your stance with Mack and now you are back tracking on your ‘we’ve needed a rebuild for a while’ but you want us to take your comments seriously? 

As I said the excuses that are being trotted out for Gruden are getting more ridiculous every week.

Obviously you have nothing to contribute here. 

Have fun with weekly Gruden bashing posts and your beta male mentality. 

[Dessie]

42 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Obviously you have nothing to contribute here. 

Have fun with weekly Gruden bashing posts and your beta male mentality. 

As I thought you are unable to back up anything you have said you are just making things up to fit your ever changing stance. 

[drfrey13]

Come on guys.  This season has taken so many unexpected turns I am sure quite a few of us have flip flopped and spoken out of emotion (or our arse).  I have had a few arguments on here lately were I had to try and remember what my opinion was a few weeks prior.  Let's create a thread where we can just state our opinion of the FO and players and just go back and state new opinions in the thread when we have a change of heart.

[Dessie]

Got no problem with people changing minds just don’t state you’ve known for a while about rebuilding when you obviously haven’t. 

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, Dessie said:

Got no problem with people changing minds just don’t state you’ve known for a while about rebuilding when you obviously haven’t. 

I understand but this season has got all of us a little heated.  There has been a lot more arguments than discussions lately.

[Dessie]

2 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I understand but this season has got all of us a little heated.  There has been a lot more arguments than discussions lately.

If people are going to make claims to back up their point what is the problem in pointing out that their claims are baseless? 

[Darbsk]

3 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

The Raiders before Gruden were stuck in a make the playoffs and lose spot.  They didn't have talent enough to effectively challenge for a Super Bowl, and it was a lack of talent that wasn't going to be filled in three years. 

Fast forward three years, paying Mack QB money at 30 years old and that's a blemish rather than a strong point.  Mack REALLY hasn't been all that incredible.  He flashed against the Cardinals and Kizer when Rodgers was out, and has otherwise been very quiet.  Not saying he's not good.  He's good, but he's the type of good that could have gotten the Raiders out of good draft position before age slowly caught up to him.  Trading him gave Gruden a very healthy cap and two first round picks.  It also turned his own pick from a 7th-11th overall pick into likely the first or at worst third overall pick.  Immediately, assuming this first overall pick is a hit (and you have to assume that), you have gotten 7 years younger at your premier defender position (Bosa/Oliver) and you have given yourself the ability to afford other pieces. 

This year is wasted, yes, but Mack would not have elevated this team to a playoff team, he would have just kept you out of the top 5 in a draft pick. 

The Raiders are also in a very strong position for next year.  They don't have THE future at QB, but Carr is very capable of being a very good test for the team.  If the team performs well offensively with an okay QB, it's a great way of deciding when to get the next QB.  You really can't judge a team with a Derek Anderson type QB, so it's tough to tell whether or not you've got a team good enough to put a QB into. 

I think the 2019 season will be a great year for the Raiders to get the team ready for a franchise QB. 

Say the Raiders add in this coming draft their premier defender (Oliver/Bosa), then another tackle with the second first round pick.  Then the BPA at RB/defense. 

You've just added talent enough to compete with Carr, to see if Carr has what it takes, and also see if the rest of the offense is good enough to put a QB into. 

Next year will also test whether or not Kolton Miller is going to be a left tackle, right tackle or get demoted to guard. 

In the 2020 draft, the Raiders are either ready to put finishing touches on a run with Carr or get their franchise QB. 

The Raiders are in a better situation going forward than any team has ever been in without a confirmed franchise QB. 

Very interesting post and a number of thoughtful points.

However,  I and a number of fans here seriously doubt the ability of Gruden to effectively use the draft capital and cap space in Free Agency to effect such a drastic turnaround. Even the most optimistic of raider fans shouldn't believe all the picks will hit and most probably the majority will miss just like with all teams. I also believe that the team wasn't so deprived of talent before JG arrived.................we'd recently had a very successful season and bar a broken leg to Carr may have gone deep into the playoffs. Now, you might say that we were lucky or had an unsustainable turnover differential etc. but the fact was that we were a very good team that year and we had something to build on, we had a keystone on each side of the ball and supplemental players to them. Either we had some very decent talent or JDR was a genius coach who doubled our win totals and I don't think many people think the latter (though i did like JDR and prefer him to JG).

In little over 18 months we appear to me to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and are quite literally the worst team in the NFL. I don't think it had to be this way, I genuinely believe we needed to reload and retool a few positions and make incremental steps. It seems like we absolutely need to hit on a high number of draft picks to even be relevant again and we all should know how volatile draft picks can be even in the hands of 'regular' head coaches.