ditchdigger Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Mind Character said: Unfortunately, nuanced analysis gets lost and categorized as extreme black/white opinions on this forum. I've said tons of negative critiques about Hue, started threads on the best versus poor arguments against Hue; however, my perspective takes on the context of the history of coaching and roster building across several decades of teams starting rookie QBs and/or tons of 1st and 2nd year players. There are tons of threads I've started or posts I've authored along those lines. I do understand nobody has time or cares to have read them, but they do exist and all of them (SURPRISE) haven't been all pro-Hue as it is categorized by many. I don't come on here and foam at the mouth and often speak on the context of things so people think I've never said a bad word about Hue despite having long posts critiquing him with contextual data. I also have the context of Head Coaching and their press conferences in my mind because I follow tons of teams and football ridiculously close b/c I love and am addicted to all things about this sport. When you follow for example 6 or 7 teams closely, you realize that your favorite teams issues are the same issues faced by the other teams. Head coaches saying dumb things in pressers, coordinators being called incompetent, fire this person or fire that person, throwing players or whoever under the bus is par for the course. It's the losing that isn't. The winning washes all that stuff away, and if a person doesn't follow the full spectrum of NFL teams will think their team's situation is different. The Only difference in Cleveland is that we had a plan and successfully followed it diligently to TANK and achieve Historical Losing for multiple years unlike other teams. --------------------- Hue's main critiques fall into the following categories for which the context around such things has always given me a nuanced opinion of the head coaching position 1.) Throwing others under the bus -- It is not good and not a sustainable model for leadership especially given the social media age we live in. Hue has not done a good job of not doing this. The Haley situation is a microcosm of self-created controversy that could've been avoided had Hue just followed the Belichick model. However, I researched as a project from a historical standpoint what percentage of coaches get accused of this in beat writer colums, is it rare, and is it just a trait of losing coaches. Come to find out the great HC outside of Bill Belichick all have called players, team, and/or decision makers out. Coaches past and present like Bill Walsh, Dan Reeves, **** Vermeil, Bill Parcells, Jim Mora Sr., Doug Pederson, Andy Reid, Bill Cowher, Don Shula, Mike Ditka, Brian Billick, Marty Schottenheimer... they all did...and funny enough most of them have highlight classic and epic call outs (in the legends cases). And specifically, looking at years 2014-2017 even elite and superbowl winning coaches do so. So, it's unsurprising. 2.) Not Coordinating an effective and impactful offense -- in year 1 of the Hue era that was one of the worst offensive lines and skill position talent surrounding a marginally talented late 3rd supplementary pick QB who was a mess in the preseason and was nowhere close to starting. We had 2 catastrophic QB injuries (RG3 and McCown), defense had young rookies playing out of position in the 34 and no impact talent. That offense and team was destined for historical losing. Ricardo Louis couldn't save them -- There are tons of fair negative critiques of Hue's situational football playcalling in year 2. Also, in year 2 the offensive line was better, but the WRs were trash (Bryce Treggs, Kasen Williams, Kenny Britt)... did not help a young rookie QB Kizer. When a WR is wide open and Kizer misfires by a mile inside/outside and hits the defender directly in his chest, that's not necessarily an issue of the coordinator, but an issue of the QB and the Coaches selected to develop his accuracy and skill. 3.) Having an undisciplined and highly penalized team -- This is a fair critique of Hue as many non-youth players make errors (Zeitler etc). However, Penalties and mental errors are directly related to inexperience. We are one of the few teams in history that started 16 of 22 starters being 1st or 2nd year players. With that you get similar things to what we've seen in terms of penalties no matter who the coach is 4.) Not being able to effect a winning record -- Hue's responsible for this as is the organizational plan. Joe Thomas had what amounts to one of the better pieces that made it clear that "TANKING" and Historical losing was all part of the money ball plan. Few teams in history stripped things down to the studs like we did. 5.) Not being able to Coordinate and develop a supplementary 3rd round pick QB and 2nd round QB toward winning football in their rookie year -- This is also the responsibility of Hue, the QB coaches who spend the most time with the QBs, and the OC (who was Hue). Based on the outcomes and results he did poorly in that regard here; however, the QBs for which he was responsible for developing were not top picks and were thought to be not close to being able to start. When we finally get a top pick QB, that QB seems to be developing quite well (does Ken Zampese get all the credit, Haley? Hue?), or does much of it have to do with the talent of the QB themselves and the context of talent around them. ---------------- You didn't answer the question. At all. 1000+ words of unmitigated bull****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 14 hours ago, ditchdigger said: You didn't answer the question. At all. 1000+ words of unmitigated bull****. DERP DERP DERP... DERP.... DERP DERP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 17 hours ago, MistaBohmbastic said: Very well thought out and I think those are excellent points @Mind Character. Look, I'm not saying I'm against firing Hue. Don't get it twisted. But I'm not as upset with him as most of you are. This has BEEN a losing culture. Fans stumble to their seats in First Energy Stadium and project a negative energy onto this team every home game. The only thing that cures it is optimism. Baker Mayfield is just that, and this team is going to continue to surround him with immense talent. That optimism is going to be a monumental part of the change in this culture. The players literally feed off of it. Jarvis calls it contagious, I call it quantum physics. This sack of **** team was dropped on Hue like Biff from Back to the Future when he crashed into the manure truck. The team clearly believes in him. He's not the one calling offensive plays, his job is to say keep the offense on the field. Well, ya'll criticized him for not being aggressive back in Oakland, and here is making aggressive decisions. THAT is his job. The amount of blame he gets for the negatives of this team is so insanely overblown. This is why I understand why they're sticking with him for at least a few more weeks. Fans still showing up is the miraculous thing here. A losing team is going to get booed, anywhere you go. Winning triggers optimism. Who criticized Hue for not being aggressive in Oakland? Aggressive bad decisions are just bad decisions. His job is to make good decisions, aggressive or not. As the boss, it's not hard to stop throwing others under the bus. It's not hard to stop criticizing unproven players your leaning on. All he has to do is make key situational decisions on the field and hope they turn out right. Keep his team's confidence up at all times and not create distractions. ..just be Ron Rivera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchdigger Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Mind Character said: DERP DERP DERP... DERP.... DERP DERP!!! 3 wins in 3 years, and this is all you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Mind Character said: DERP DERP DERP... DERP.... DERP DERP!!! Confirmed! Mind Character and Hue Jackson are one in the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 6 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: Mind disagrees about that second throw, said it was a bad throw, Landry made a great catch that most receivers don't make. Probably feels the same way about the other throw too. We shouldn't pick apart the HC though, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 At first it might of looked like an average throw, right like but wrong height, however he thrèw it to avoid an int if Landry misses the catch, or is late on his post/goes to the corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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