GSUeagles14 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, jarren said: The % is targets/TDs. So the higher your % the more targets you need to score. got it, regardless therrs no clear trend as far as elite wrs andbvbthat grap, hopkins is in the same range yet yoi have guys like cobb and eric decker among the best in that group. obj looks to be averagish as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said: I’m not the one making an assertion. I’m simply asking a question. I can’t wrap my head around it, honestly. I refuse to believe a receiver of his quality suddenly can’t separate. I’ve seen zero decline to his game over the last few years. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1. Julio Jones 2. Antonio Brown 3. Odell Beckham Jr. 4. Devante Adams 5. Josh Gordon 6. DeAndre Hopkins 7. Tyreek Hill 8. Michael Thomas 9. Adam Thielan 10. AJ Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, DoleINGout said: 1. Julio Jones 2. Antonio Brown 3. Odell Beckham Jr. 4. Devante Adams 5. Josh Gordon 6. DeAndre Hopkins 7. Tyreek Hill 8. Michael Thomas 9. Adam Thielan 10. AJ Green Let's assume Julio was better than AB - at this point, I realize I don't care about that argument anymore as AB is HoF bound so his claim to "#1 WR" no longer means anything to me... There is no way in hell that Davante Adams and Josh Gordon are top 5 Wide Receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said: Josh Gordon Gordon maybe not since he seems to lack the speed he had, but top ten for sure. Adams is debatable but I prefer his YAC to put him over the top of the other guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilflamingo Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 On 11/1/2018 at 8:04 PM, JustAnotherFan said: Player Target TD TD/Tgt % RK Player Target TD TD/Tgt % RK Cole Beasley 45 17 2.65 1 Allen Robinson 53 20 2.65 1 Allen Robinson 53 20 2.65 2 Antonio Gates 69 25 2.76 2 Antonio Gates 69 25 2.76 3 Rob Gronkowski 66 23 2.87 3 Rob Gronkowski 66 23 2.87 4 Dez Bryant 61 21 2.90 4 Dez Bryant 61 21 2.90 5 Jordan Reed 54 18 3.00 5 Jordan Reed 54 18 3.00 6 Doug Baldwin 56 18 3.11 6 Michael Thomas 49 16 3.06 7 Mike Wallace 50 16 3.13 7 Eric Ebron 46 15 3.07 8 Kyle Rudolph 63 20 3.15 8 Doug Baldwin 56 18 3.11 9 Jordy Nelson 77 24 3.21 9 Mike Wallace 50 16 3.13 10 Brandon Marshall 68 21 3.24 10 Kyle Rudolph 63 20 3.15 11 A.J. Green 72 22 3.27 11 Jordan Matthews 48 15 3.20 12 Jimmy Graham 82 25 3.28 12 Jordy Nelson 77 24 3.21 13 Alshon Jeffery 76 23 3.30 13 Martellus Bennett 45 14 3.21 14 Randall Cobb 70 21 3.33 14 Brandon Marshall 68 21 3.24 15 Davante Adams 85 25 3.40 15 Devin Funchess 49 15 3.27 16 Antonio Brown 103 28 3.68 16 Thank for finding this. I've been trying to convince a buddy of mine for the longest of time that the Steelers botched it by keeping Antonio Brown over Mike Wallace - finally I have some solid analysis to back up my argument! It's a lot of things that goes into TD numbers. Remember when those two scrubs Calvin and Andre Johnson combined for a pathetic 9 TDs in 2012? Andre actually had a similar hard time getting into the end zone throughout his career. Do you think that was mostly due to a lack of ability or that he commanded so much attention from opposing defenders (and crappy QB play)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, evilflamingo said: Thank for finding this. I've been trying to convince a buddy of mine for the longest of time that the Steelers botched it by keeping Antonio Brown over Mike Wallace - finally I have some solid analysis to back up my argument! It's a lot of things that goes into TD numbers. Remember when those two scrubs Calvin and Andre Johnson combined for a pathetic 9 TDs in 2012? Andre actually had a similar hard time getting into the end zone throughout his career. Do you think that was mostly due to a lack of ability or that he commanded so much attention from opposing defenders (and crappy QB play)? I mean Calvin had 16 Tds the season before and 12 the season after. Everyone knew it was a fluky season. Calvin still has 4 seasons higher than Julio's peak when it comes to touchdowns and he only played 1 year longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilflamingo Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, Malik said: I mean Calvin had 16 Tds the season before and 12 the season after. Everyone knew it was a fluky season. Calvin still has 4 seasons higher than Julio's peak when it comes to touchdowns and he only played 1 year longer. Please read my post again and let me know if you think my point was to talk down Calvin Johnson. I agree that looking at his ability, you would expect Julio to have some additional TDs to his name but I think you're wrong if you're letting that number be the defining factor in judging his ability. His TD/game average for his career up until last season is .45. Here are some comparisons: Calvin Johnson: 0.61 Andre Johnson: 0.36 Antonio Brown: 0.51 DeAndre Hopkins: 0.46 Randy Moss: 0.72 So yeah, you would expect his numbers to be a bit better but again, not a deal-breaker for me. ** Just in case someone wants to nit-pick. YES, Moss' numbers would be better if we exclude his final years when he didn't play much, or his time in Oakland when he didn't seem to care. YES, the active guys' numbers would be slightly altered if you included this season but I just ripped the numbers off wikipedia and 2018 wasn't fully updated to I skipped it. YES, these players all played with different QBs, in different systems, had different numbers on their different-colored uniforms and reasons, reasons and NO, I'm not ripping on any of these other WRs. K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ6 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (7:13) ANOTHER deep TD Julio should have had. Ryan underthrows it a bit causing Julio to adjust, slow down and allow Norman to catch up and draw the PI. The streak continues. Something the stats don't show. Also peep how ugly Ryan's deep ball is. Throws it so high and like usual off line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, jarren said: (7:13) ANOTHER deep TD Julio should have had. Ryan underthrows it a bit causing Julio to adjust, slow down and allow Norman to catch up and draw the PI. The streak continues. Something the stats don't show. Also peep how ugly Ryan's deep ball is. Throws it so high and like usual off line. how hard is it to see some arguments people are reciptive to and some people arent. theres plenty of holes to pick in this one, and you seem to have a lasting grudge agaisnt ryan. it seems to be because hes not michael vick, i mean, according to you ryan is just "good". i can go back and show you tbat quote if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ6 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said: how hard is it to see some arguments people are reciptive to and some people arent. theres plenty of holes to pick in this one, and you seem to have a lasting grudge agaisnt ryan. it seems to be because hes not michael vick, i mean, according to you ryan is just "good". i can go back and show you tbat quote if needed. By stating facts I have a grudge against Matt Ryan? You're hella weird man. The amount you stan for the guy and how defensive you get when anyone critiques him is just strange. I called the guy a top 6 QB and defended him this offseason on the general board when he was being called overrated and overpaid after signing his contract. But yeah cause I don't think he's perfect I must want Vick. Smh If it'll cheer you up send me your addy and I'll send you over a FatHead of him. You can start your Matt Ryan shrine if you haven't already done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 52 minutes ago, jarren said: By stating facts I have a grudge against Matt Ryan? You're hella weird man. The amount you stan for the guy and how defensive you get when anyone critiques him is just strange. I called the guy a top 6 QB and defended him this offseason on the general board when he was being called overrated and overpaid after signing his contract. But yeah cause I don't think he's perfect I must want Vick. Smh If it'll cheer you up send me your addy and I'll send you over a FatHead of him. You can start your Matt Ryan shrine if you haven't already done so. no, by seemingly wanting a qb with a rocket arm and better athleticism above all else you want michael vick. julio did a really crappy job tracking that ball, still prob would have caught it without the dpi but you criticize how high ryan threw it. as i already said, when ryan was being praised by some comentators you said they need to relax cause hes "only good". its pretty clear you have something against him, furthermore trying to use him as a negative for julio is just a bad argument as guys have to deal with watson and eli. its just not a good argument even without the weird ryan thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ6 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: no, by seemingly wanting a qb with a rocket arm and better athleticism above all else you want michael vick. julio did a really crappy job tracking that ball, still prob would have caught it without the dpi but you criticize how high ryan threw it. as i already said, when ryan was being praised by some comentators you said they need to relax cause hes "only good". its pretty clear you have something against him, furthermore trying to use him as a negative for julio is just a bad argument as guys have to deal with watson and eli. its just not a good argument even without the weird ryan thing. Strawman. Get your reading comprehension up.... Judging by the way you read that chart I'm not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 37 minutes ago, jarren said: Strawman. Get your reading comprehension up.... Judging by the way you read that chart I'm not holding my breath. its not a strawman, you explicitly listed those as weaknesses for ryan, despite the excellent pocket movement hes shown the last couple years. always good to have to resort to insults though, always shows great confidence in your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ6 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said: its not a strawman, you explicitly listed those as weaknesses for ryan, despite the excellent pocket movement hes shown the last couple years. always good to have to resort to insults though, always shows great confidence in your argument. So let me get this straight, because I pointed out weaknesses of Ryan it means I would want Vick at QB because he excels at those two traits? Lmao. That would be like a Chiefs fan saying Patrick Mahomes makes too many risky throws and then coming to the conclusion that they'd perfer Alex Smith. How you come to that conclusion is just mind boggling and says alot about the way you interpret things. Not good. Anyways you can stan all you want but the point remains, Ryan has costed Julio a deep TD every game this season. Doesn't mean he isn't a good QB. Doesn't mean Vick would be better. It's just is what it is and the only reason I'm even pointing it out is because the discussion in this thread has lead to Julio's lack of TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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