How would you use the Le'Veon sized chunk of cap space that will free up this offseason?

[VigilantZombie]

29 minutes ago, warfelg said:

You are aware we actually take on cap by cutting or trading Artie Burns right?

This, I don't even know if Burns is being cut is the right play, or if he simply needs to be rebuilt and not thrust immediately back into a starting role.  Might as well let him ride out his contract as it's going to be minimal imo

[Dcash4]

You don’t dump Burns. It’s not good business. You start him from the absolute bottom in camp and see what comes from a special teamer work load, but you don’t cut him.

Davis deserves an extension, and it won’t be a rich one. He seems right at home at FS. 

Gilbert has now been replaced twice with UDFA, and we never skip a beat. There is no reason for him to be on the team with his random mid-week injury report. The cost above replacement is just too great. 

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

You are aware we actually take on cap by cutting or trading Artie Burns right?

cutting yes, but trading? I thought a trade would be the way to remove the player and the cap value they represent.  It might still be a better option if he is getting PI penalties and allowing the opposition a TD every game. Think about that, because we never had any penalties in the panthers game and then burns enters the game, only penalty then a TD a few  plays later.  I'm not making this up either

[Dcash4]

53 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

cutting yes, but trading? I thought a trade would be the way to remove the player and the cap value they represent.  It might still be a better option if he is getting PI penalties and allowing the opposition a TD every game. Think about that, because we never had any penalties in the panthers game and then burns enters the game, only penalty then a TD a few  plays later.  I'm not making this up either

I’m sure there would be a line out the door of teams running to trade for Artie Burns...we would have to chase then off with a stick. 

[43M]

 

I'm not trying to knock on anyone, but I have to address a few things....

First off, I dont get the logic of Dupree and Davis "deserving" new contracts.   Both of them were arguably two of the worst players at their respective positions in the entire league last year.   Early in the season, they didnt play well either.     I give them props for playing well more recently, but the kneejerks seem odd to me.    Are you really comfortable paying players more money because theyve looked better for about 6 weeks, despite looking like trash for alot longer prior to that?     Dont get me wrong, players improve....I get that....and I hope thats the case, but these were embarrassingly bad players not long ago and I dont get why they would all of a sudden deserve extensions.   

Secondly, cutting Burns is bad for business?      Huh?     I mean, if it doesnt happen I wont lose sleep over it, but I dont get the "bad for business" part.    He is complete garbage and doesnt have much upside.   He is a poor mans Ike Taylor at best.....poor instincts and cant track the ball in the air to save his life.    Now, Im willing to perhaps let him come to training camp next year and go through the process, but by no means is he someone who should be guaranteed a roster spot going into 2019.   Absolutely nothing he has ever shown warrants that.   He would already be gone if he wasnt a former first round pick.....who most people thought was a 3rd round talent.   Sorry, but he really is THAT bad.     

Lastly....

6 hours ago, warfelg said:

You are aware we actually take on cap by cutting or trading Artie Burns right?

 

I think youre looking at 2018.   We free up $1.75m and eat about $1.3 if we cut or trade him this offseason.

https://overthecap.com/calculator/pittsburgh-steelers/

[Dcash4]

5 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

First off, I dont get the logic of Dupree and Davis "deserving" new contracts

Because Davis is 25 years old,  in his third year, and has improved in areas each year — seeming to fit perfectly into the role of FS where his athleticism takes a little more control and the fine tuning of his early struggles in the box is less exaggerated. 

He had 90 tackles in 2017 and ended up missing something like 20 tackles (which is the negative that sticks out). That puts him in the top 20 in the league if you correct something that is largely TAUGHT (angles, technique, etc). 

Also, the biggest reason — he won’t cost much. If you want to tell me we take that money and go get an Earl Thomas fine, but he seems like a practical long term answer to FS and at a fraction of the cost  

He came into the league wearing a variety of hats, hasn’t played with a great supporting cast in the DB room, and he finally seems to be rounding into a good player in what is generally considered the Jump year.

Dupree- I could take it or leave it  Personally; I would like to move on, but for the right price as a potential 3rd guy, he would be a good fit  

5 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Secondly, cutting Burns is bad for business?      Huh?     I mean, if it doesnt happen I wont lose sleep over it, but I dont get the "bad for business" part. 

Im not sure how cutting a 24 year old (in May) first round pick in a rookie deal when he literally cost you peanuts and are not pressed against the cap is good business. 

Even if his floor is special teams only, the cost isn’t absurd. You used a high end asset to attain the player, get the max of it that you can. 

Im not suggesting you bring him in as your penciled in starter, but you come to camp as your 5th/6th guy and have him work to stay on the roster. IF you have adequate replacements at the top of the depth chart, sure you can cut him....but if a 24 year old, raw prospect shows signs of improvement  he costs you nothing to keep. 

Its all about age and cost of replacement. It’s why I’ll beat the drum (and have since the offseason) that Gilbert needs cut seeing as his cost against his replacement is far to high. Davis seems to be a good fit at FS as an NFL starter, the reality of the cost of replacement to get much better is most likely high. Davis still has half a year to show his continued progression and could ultimately fall on his face...but I’m honestly not sure why you wouldn’t see him as a extension candidate at this point. 

[warfelg]

6 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

 

 

I think youre looking at 2018.   We free up $1.75m and eat about $1.3 if we cut or trade him this offseason.

https://overthecap.com/calculator/pittsburgh-steelers/

Ah you are right in that. There is still the real money cost of $1.7mil on top of the $1.3 mil cap hit, and the only way that comes back is in offsetting money. 

In the end the point was going to be, there’s no CB in FA or the draft that you can cut Artie, bring in someone new, improve, and have a net cap change of zero. Does Artie have a crap load of flaws? Heck yea. IMO is he so bad that a JAG can come in and replace him? Not at all. 

If we look at him next year as a 1 year $3 mil player for 2019-20 season I think the prospects of Artie being here is high. 

[AFF]

They won’t cut bait in Artie yet

[Alex]

I'm going to respond to Sean Davis and Bud Dupree both first.

1). Sean Davis definitely deserves a contract extension, it's not that he's playing well lately, he's been consistent whole season, more than we could say about Mike Mitchell and he's having a quiet season and for a defensive back to have the "quiet season" is a new standard now and that's a good thing. I'd definitely sign Sean Davis to an extension at 4 years, 22 million; 13 million guaranteed. That's about 5.5 million yearly. 27 million at max. While I do think Sean Davis is upgradeable, he's farther from the problem and we have bigger glaring needs everywhere else. Best to keep him and see how Edmunds progress, then we will go from there, makes no sense to pull the plug on those youngsters.

2). Bud Dupree; eh, not much a guy like Dupree can do within our scheme. Dupree would have probably played better under LeBeau's scheme as Butler require our linebackers to drop back much more. Unless we are sure we could upgrade Dupree and it's easier said than done especially via the free agency and draft, after all, the pass rushers who can drop back well is a premium luxury. If you look into the free agency for 2019, you can find a lot of better pass rushers, but none who can drop back, honestly Dupree probably has the edge in this department, we still have Olasunkanmi Adeniyi who looks like a classic pass rusher, it would make sense to resign Dupree and draft a classic pass rusher again to go with Adeniyi. I'd offer Dupree 3 years, 17 million with 9 million guaranteed. That's 5.67 annually and for those who think that's a lot- look at the money guaranteed, after second year he could be let go easily. 

Now, about Vince Williams- statistically he's a mediocre player but people forgot that he's the heart of defense too. He's a leader with fire, what we have so far is working, it's not broken. Vince, Fort, and Bostic look like they could be good co-starters, depends on the down and situation. I would target a free agent cornerback, that's the priority. Right now I have top 5 cornerbacks I would like to sign, here it is:

Kareem Jackson, Texans. PFF ranking @ 90.1

Morris Claiborne, Jets. PFF ranking @ 72,1

Pierre Desir, Colts. PFF ranking @ 76.4

Kayvon Webster, Texans. PFF ranking @ 90.4

(Darkhorse) Bryce Callahan, Bears. PFF ranking @ 88.2

Then I'd target a backup free safety in FA. One name came to the mind:

Tre Boston, Cardinals. Poor dude hasn't got the payday, been consistently good. 

The rests are just minimum signings and stock up via the draft. 

That's all I got off top of my head, will dig into this later on. 

 

[43M]

6 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Because Davis is 25 years old,  in his third year, and has improved in areas each year — seeming to fit perfectly into the role of FS where his athleticism takes a little more control and the fine tuning of his early struggles in the box is less exaggerated. 

He had 90 tackles in 2017 and ended up missing something like 20 tackles (which is the negative that sticks out). That puts him in the top 20 in the league if you correct something that is largely TAUGHT (angles, technique, etc). 

Also, the biggest reason — he won’t cost much. If you want to tell me we take that money and go get an Earl Thomas fine, but he seems like a practical long term answer to FS and at a fraction of the cost  

He came into the league wearing a variety of hats, hasn’t played with a great supporting cast in the DB room, and he finally seems to be rounding into a good player in what is generally considered the Jump year.

Dupree- I could take it or leave it  Personally; I would like to move on, but for the right price as a potential 3rd guy, he would be a good fit  

Im not sure how cutting a 24 year old (in May) first round pick in a rookie deal when he literally cost you peanuts and are not pressed against the cap is good business. 

Even if his floor is special teams only, the cost isn’t absurd. You used a high end asset to attain the player, get the max of it that you can. 

Im not suggesting you bring him in as your penciled in starter, but you come to camp as your 5th/6th guy and have him work to stay on the roster. IF you have adequate replacements at the top of the depth chart, sure you can cut him....but if a 24 year old, raw prospect shows signs of improvement  he costs you nothing to keep. 

Its all about age and cost of replacement. It’s why I’ll beat the drum (and have since the offseason) that Gilbert needs cut seeing as his cost against his replacement is far to high. Davis seems to be a good fit at FS as an NFL starter, the reality of the cost of replacement to get much better is most likely high. Davis still has half a year to show his continued progression and could ultimately fall on his face...but I’m honestly not sure why you wouldn’t see him as a extension candidate at this point. 

 Davis was very arguably the worst safety in the league in 2017. I don't care how many tackles he had, I watched him play all year... And he was utter garbage. He is definitely playing better this year, but again, I don't get the logic of paying a guy more money because he's looked better for 8 games, while ignoring how terrible he looked his first two years. Again, I'm not saying he couldn't have improved, but I'm not sold on him yet and wouldn't give him an extension until he proved it another year.

Burns is terrible. Plain and simple. I don't care how old he is. True, he isn't making much... he isn't even worth what he's making. Like I said, if he wasn't a former first-round pick, have would have been cut already. People just seem to be reluctant to admit he's a bust. If we keep him, so be it... But I have absolutely no faith left in the guy.

[Alex]

3 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

 Davis was very arguably the worst safety in the league in 2017. I don't care how many tackles he had, I watched him play all year... And he was utter garbage. He is definitely playing better this year, but again, I don't get the logic of paying a guy more money because he's looked better for 8 games, while ignoring how terrible he looked his first two years. Again, I'm not saying he couldn't have improved, but I'm not sold on him yet and wouldn't give him an extension until he proved it another year.

Burns is terrible. Plain and simple. I don't care how old he is. True, he isn't making much... he isn't even worth what he's making. Like I said, if he wasn't a former first-round pick, have would have been cut already. People just seem to be reluctant to admit he's a bust. If we keep him, so be it... But I have absolutely no faith left in the guy.

Have you seen the draft class or free agency class? Aside from Tre Boston who may or may not be a much of upgrade, would we be able to upgrade Sean Davis? The ball-hawking free safety pool is shrinking rapidly, it's becoming harder and harder to find that talent- WHO can tackle. If you have a choice, would you keep Sean Davis who is decent at everything or get somebody who is a specialty at something? 

[MOSteelers56]

25 minutes ago, Alex said:

Have you seen the draft class or free agency class? Aside from Tre Boston who may or may not be a much of upgrade, would we be able to upgrade Sean Davis? The ball-hawking free safety pool is shrinking rapidly, it's becoming harder and harder to find that talent- WHO can tackle. If you have a choice, would you keep Sean Davis who is decent at everything or get somebody who is a specialty at something? 

I don't think 43 is talking about replacing Davis. He just doesn't want to give him a big extension right now. He's right too. Davis was hot garbage last year and the year before that he was pretty terribly average. 

[warfelg]

Yea. I think Davis is massively improved and his new move safety role fits him, but I’m not extending him yet. 

[Chieferific]

1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

 Davis was very arguably the worst safety in the league in 2017. I don't care how many tackles he had, I watched him play all year... And he was utter garbage. He is definitely playing better this year, but again, I don't get the logic of paying a guy more money because he's looked better for 8 games, while ignoring how terrible he looked his first two years. Again, I'm not saying he couldn't have improved, but I'm not sold on him yet and wouldn't give him an extension until he proved it another year.

Burns is terrible. Plain and simple. I don't care how old he is. True, he isn't making much... he isn't even worth what he's making. Like I said, if he wasn't a former first-round pick, have would have been cut already. People just seem to be reluctant to admit he's a bust. If we keep him, so be it... But I have absolutely no faith left in the guy.

Burns has been BAD. The frustrating part (to me) is he looked pretty good as a Rookie. So it begs the question...."Why has he regressed so much"?  I thought (like most) he was over drafted but his Rookie play, though not spectacular, wasn't too bad especially considering he was a raw "over drafted" Rookie. It made the pick a little easier to live with. However, every year since has been a steady and drastic decline. So what's changed? His ability? His confidence? The scheme? IMO, a player doesn't LOSE his ability overnight without a significant injury. That leaves confidence (fixable) and scheme (fixable). Burns is not being used to his "strengths". If it's his confidence then DB guru Tomlin needs to help him snap out of it. If it's a scheme issue and the scheme isn't changing then he needs to be gone. Of course all the explanations are irrelevant if the results are the same. 

[MOSteelers56]

11 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

Burns has been BAD. The frustrating part (to me) is he looked pretty good as a Rookie. So it begs the question...."Why has he regressed so much"?  I thought (like most) he was over drafted but his Rookie play, though not spectacular, wasn't too bad especially considering he was a raw "over drafted" Rookie. It made the pick a little easier to live with. However, every year since has been a steady and drastic decline. So what's changed? His ability? His confidence? The scheme? IMO, a player doesn't LOSE his ability overnight without a significant injury. That leaves confidence (fixable) and scheme (fixable). Burns is not being used to his "strengths". If it's his confidence then DB guru Tomlin needs to help him snap out of it. If it's a scheme issue and the scheme isn't changing then he needs to be gone. Of course all the explanations are irrelevant if the results are the same. 

Could be a lazy factor too. Sometimes people get used to living with a lot of money and their interests fall away from work. I'm just throwing that out there, I have no idea if Artie is lazy.