AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, drd23 said: Basically means that whether he and his coaching staff can develop Lamar will decide what happens after this deal That's exactly how I read it as well. His fate is now tied to Lamar's progression. But I also don't really know if a 4-year extension is uncommon among head coaches. I mean you certainly (not to my knowledge at least?) don't usually see coaches get extended for like 10 more years. 45 minutes ago, DR43 said: I'm surprised you feel this way. I always thought Harbaugh was one of the top five coaches in the league. He was maybe in like 2011, but since then I don't see any evidence whatsoever of him being even a top 10 coach in this league. I think he's a solid coach, probably between 10 and 15, but that's it. You can do better but you can also do much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coordinator0 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 As someone who swings between being meh on Harbaugh and utterly against him, I'm closer to the former at the moment. Seems like John is finally intent on making changes without being backed into a corner to do so. Moving Marty out of the OC role after Jackson's fairly impressive run as a starter shocked me to the core. Yeah, the playoff game was called and planned that badly but I still didn't think Harbaugh would do anything about it. Promoting Roman was nice, he's not without his flaws as an offensive coordinator based on past performance but his style of offense is obviously where Baltimore's strengths lie. Give John credit, he at least recognized that and pushed the matter forward. I'm still kind of leary about the type of coach Harbaugh is though. Giving complete schematic and play-calling control to both coordinators is not conducive to long-term stability on either side of the ball. Either they do well and get a head coaching job, or they're able to stick around for a while because they're not good (ahem Pees ahem). If the head coach had control of one side of the ball at least there would be some sort of foundation in place. Now with Roman and Martindale there's somewhat of a chance of losing both of them in one offseason if each do well. Ouch. That worries me more for Lamar than anything else, I don't want his development fractured because of constant offensive coordinator re-rolling for whatever reason (it's fine in the current case since Mornhinweg is bad though). Meh. He is what he is. John does fill the role of figurehead well and team leader. Just have to hope the guys calling the offense and defense are competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, coordinator0 said: Meh. He is what he is. John does fill the role of figurehead well and team leader. Just have to hope the guys calling the offense and defense are competent Same. I'm kind of numb to it. John is John. Ultimately I trust the FO on this matter. There's no ills so dire within the club that a new regime was a necessity or anything. The prospects of a new dynamic hire were exciting, but largely unrealistic. The talent pool for this go around wasn't great, and I firmly believe Eric has our next potential coach in the chamber. David Shaw. It's just a matter of when he's ready for the pros, and it's highly likely that he will be around the end of Harbaugh's new deal. So we're in a good position. It's funny, Harbaugh is once again tethered to a young QB that will likely determine his job security. Should be fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 hours ago, DR43 said: I'm surprised you feel this way. I always thought Harbaugh was one of the top five coaches in the league. We just had a guy link to an article which stated, that settling for Harbaugh was settling for mediocrity - I couldn't let that pass. I tried to break down Harbaughs tenure compared to other succesful coaches not named Belichick a couple of pages back. Based on those results he could be argued to be a top 5 coach - this although depends on how you view Flacco. Those who think Flacco is a QB ranked at the bottom of the league should cream themselves for us extending Harbaugh. I do admit though, that with the last 5 years, he had to feel the pressure coming - but managed a huge turnaround mid-season which should convince most of his doubters of his skills as a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: I’m neither upset nor elated by this extension. I like it because I know what Harbaugh brings to the table. He’s going to have a solidly disciplined unit that has each other’s back. But because it’s so tight knit as a team, there aren’t any stars that standout. Lamar and his game might be the only concept of this team that doesn’t go “by the book”. Though such a coaching strategy generally seems to produce success more than the opposite though so it’s whatever. Just not as fun when you don’t have as many intriguing and eccentric personalities. I think it goes back to the front office and Bisciotti as well. It also reflects on those players we draft. We would never go for a Tyreek Hill (due to the history) and we never pick a type like Alvin Kamara, Darren Sproles, or other players deemed as x-factors. We tend to pick the solid, strong character guys, special teamers etc. which doesn't leave much to those with a bit of an excentric personality. Lasley might be the closest to those types we have drafted lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensfanRD Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Greg Roman will get Harbaugh fired. I just don't see this marriage yielding grade results. Based on what was available, I'm satisfied that Harbaugh is coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, Danand said: I think it goes back to the front office and Bisciotti as well. It also reflects on those players we draft. We would never go for a Tyreek Hill (due to the history) and we never pick a type like Alvin Kamara, Darren Sproles, or other players deemed as x-factors. I wouldn't go that far. Ultimately, X factors are usually so because of laudable athleticism lending itself to versatility or unconventional use. They also aren't limited to Offense. Just this past draft Eric talked about how they would've selected Derwin James if not for the trade down, a seismic X factor in his own right. And Lamar Jackson was drafted in part because they saw his value as an X factor even with Flacco remaining the starter. Phillip Lindsay was also a major UDFA target for them, and only chose the Broncos over the Ravens at the urging of his parents. The team has 2 very clear draft strategies. 1. The Drafting of Top Tier Athleticism & 2. The Drafting of Top Tier Production. A pretty basic guideline and even a presumed one when you zoom out on the draft, but few teams stick to it as much as the Ravens- especially recently. Sticking to this model has netted the team more contributors then a large % of the league. So while we don't have a notable X Factor near the rank of Kamara, I would attribute that more to the BPA model leading us elsewhere & a Defensive Slant. Instead of a bias against or lack of interest in dynamic multi functional talents. 1 hour ago, Danand said: We tend to pick the solid, strong character guys, special teamers etc. which doesn't leave much to those with a bit of an excentric personality. Lasley might be the closest to those types we have drafted lately. We've been lucky that the "Look At Me" personalities haven't rotted the club at one point, as it has so many others. Lucky and strategic. Drafting Ogden & Lewis as the franchises 1st & 2nd picks set such an important tone for the Ravens. Out in front, both players were Phenoms. They sent a humbling message to players on both sides of the ball through their play alone. They also highlighted the broad spectrum of personalities that could thrive in the organization. You could be who you naturally were, no conformity was needed. Severe dedication to the common cause & respect were the only requirements. The trickle down effect of what they established still boosts the team today. I think Harbaugh has also done a great job of establishing/continuing a LR standard. He has his hiccups, that I think lead to odd personnel decisions at times, but he's earned some credit by and large as a leader. When first hired, he was entering into a weird situation. Billick was a unique coach that fostered a unique environment. One very different from the norm. John had to make some large concessions to who he wanted to be/was as a coach to make it all work initially and I think that often gets overlooked or forgotten. A lesser talent could've crumbled. The major & constant flaw with Harbaugh is his limited schematic talent/knowledge outside of special teams. Irrational loyalty has also reared it's head too often as well. That lack of talent/knowledge though, prevented him from ever truly earning Ed's respect. And would've cost him Ray's too imo if not for them connecting over their shared & severe faith. A deteriorated connection with Ed likely helped foment the "coup" turmoil. Everyone knows about that situation as it's been well documented, but Harbaugh was also dealing was another issue at the same time and it's iffy subject matter for the forum. IMO We had a closeted player on the team during that era. There was substantial evidence supporting the theory at the time, that thankfully was deleted at the behest of fans to protect the player's right to privacy and remedy what many saw as an intrusion on it. At the same time, we had a severely religious LR headlined by Lewis & Harbaugh. The possible* issues born from that combination speak for themselves sadly enough. It was all heightened though in that September - October - November window. We literally had 2 captains on the team, on different sides of the ball, actively participating in activism against the side the other believed in- passionately. It would be naive to think the fallout from such an occurrence was limited to just those 2 players, and from what little leaked out of the LR it certainly wasn't. Harbaugh kept the team together through those 2 simultaneous divisions and we ended up winning the Super Bowl. A super strong accomplishment when you look back on it. I think Harbaugh has evolved a lot since he's been here, and in recent years I think he's given the go ahead to the FO to bring in players who he might not gel with perfectly. That's why we've seen guys like Peanut, Tim Williams, and as you mentioned Lasley get a shot lately. Which is something I fully support. Harbaugh leaving his comfort zone shows growth, an increased confidence, and a commitment to success. Let's hope he keeps it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, DreamKid said: Everyone knows about that situation as it's been well documented, but Harbaugh was also dealing was another issue at the same time and it's iffy subject matter for the forum. IMO We had a closeted player on the team during that era. There was substantial evidence supporting the theory at the time, that thankfully was deleted at the behest of fans to protect the player's right to privacy and remedy what many saw as an intrusion on it. I have heard nothing about what you indicate. I assume it is either a race or sexual orientation issue? I could understand if some players for some reason can't handle playing with men who likes men - either because of religion or just the weird aggression towards homosexuals. Even in Denmark, one of my former teammates had to switch teams, because his former teammates was weird about it. This is players though - it would surprise me if Harbaugh would have anything against such a person - although he is deeply devoted to his faith (catholic, right?) Nevertheless, I agree that we have taken more swings at players with athletic upside, and I have beaten that drum for the last couple of years - that we are a team with a high floor, "low" ceiling, meaning that we lack playmakers "x-factors". This reflects in our inability to make explosive plays of more than 25-30 yards. I very much agree with the statement, that we need more athleticism and speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Danand said: This is players though - it would surprise me if Harbaugh would have anything against such a person - although he is deeply devoted to his faith (catholic, right?) Yea, John was a unifying presence throughout the whole thing. It was a player to player issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coordinator0 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I feel like the team is grooming Weiss for something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 COPY-PASTE that rant from 2 weeks ago about "offensive guru", "find the next Sean McVay" nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: COPY-PASTE that rant from 2 weeks ago about "offensive guru", "find the next Sean McVay" nonsense I think people hammer the "young McVay type" stuff too much as well, but you gotta remember the Patriots are lucky enough to have an offensive guru locked in at OC because of the weight Bill carries. Other teams aren't as lucky and to get the best offensive minds, they are forced to make them head coaches. When BB retires, the Patriots themselves will likely hire an "offensive guru"- Josh McDaniels. The final four teams had Sean Payton, Sean McVay, Andy Reid, and Josh McDaniels. Some of the best offensive minds in the game. It's not a coincidence, but I'm with you in that it's not a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 This game also highlighted the importance that playing great defense at the right time has on you. Neither of those defenses were "good" throughout the season (NE was 13th in weighted DVOA, NE was 15th in weighted DVOA), but they showed up at exactly the right time and it was thanks primarily to coaching, not talent. You DO need to have a top flight offense to win in this league. All this game showed today was how much of a fraud Jared Goff is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: All this game showed today was how much of a fraud Jared Goff is. He's not built for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, DreamKid said: He's not built for it. He's a fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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