AlNFL19 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Hopkins is a freak but Brown just is so far ahead of everyone else at everything technical about the position that I have to vote for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Brown IMO. Ben was missing him left and right early on, which is why his numbers have been down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 3 hours ago, ET80 said: Won't dive into everything, but will ask this: What are we judging these guys on, then? Their abilities as a wide receiver? Do you really think statistical output is the best way to judge players? not saying it doesn't have its place, but they should be used in support of the argument... Not be the argument itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingandre Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Brown is the better route runner but Hopkins is the better pass catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 On 11/13/2018 at 7:31 PM, FourThreeMafia said: Their abilities as a wide receiver? Do you really think statistical output is the best way to judge players? not saying it doesn't have its place, but they should be used in support of the argument... Not be the argument itself. Production -> Recognition -> Status -> Ranking I think you're downplaying how much production influences public opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 On 11/13/2018 at 6:31 PM, FourThreeMafia said: Their abilities as a wide receiver? Do you really think statistical output is the best way to judge players? not saying it doesn't have its place, but they should be used in support of the argument... Not be the argument itself. And you don't think that'll evolve into a statistical discussion? C'mon, you've been here long enough. At the best, it turns into a gif/YouTube clip thread. At the worse, we start drilling into really obscure stats. Nonetheless - let's try it, see how many posts before stats are invoked: As a WR, Hopkins brings better size, better hands, better catch radius to the table. He's stronger at the POA, it's simply impossible for a DB to beat him with a jam or a press. He's got a very good vertical, and actually plays to every inch of it with his ability to get the ball. Now, it's your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, ET80 said: And you don't think that'll evolve into a statistical discussion? C'mon, you've been here long enough. At the best, it turns into a gif/YouTube clip thread. At the worse, we start drilling into really obscure stats. Nonetheless - let's try it, see how many posts before stats are invoked: As a WR, Hopkins brings better size, better hands, better catch radius to the table. He's stronger at the POA, it's simply impossible for a DB to beat him with a jam or a press. He's got a very good vertical, and actually plays to every inch of it with his ability to get the ball. Now, it's your turn. I don't see how you can claim he has better hands with any kind of certainty. Brown plays bigger than his size but I can't really dispute that. I'd argue that Brown is a better route runner, but that's just as disputable as the hands argument. Brown has better lateral quickness and gets in and out of his breaks faster. Once again, I never claimed Brown is better than Hopkins... But if you're convinced Hopkins is better than Brown, good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 37 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Production -> Recognition -> Status -> Ranking I think you're downplaying how much production influences public opinion. Haha... No I'm not. Stats influence public opinion more than anything. I'm arguing that public opinion isn't always in line with reality. Its why Maurkice Pouncey is considered elite by many casual fans because he makes the pro bowl so much, when in reality he is just merely good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: I don't see how you can claim he has better hands with any kind of certainty. Brown plays bigger than his size but I can't really dispute that. I'd argue that Brown is a better route runner, but that's just as disputable as the hands argument. Brown has better lateral quickness and gets in and out of his breaks faster. Once again, I never claimed Brown is better than Hopkins... But if you're convinced Hopkins is better than Brown, good for you. ...and I think you illustrated the main issue with a non-stat based argument. It's all subjective to the views of a bunch of fans/amateurs. None of us work for an NFL front office, or a college football program. We have access to a plethora of tools, but we're not the best lot to break down the nuances of each position with any sort of consistency and - well, we're all going to have some sort of bias in the discussion. We're fans, that's what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Just now, ET80 said: ...and I think you illustrated the main issue with a non-stat based argument. It's all subjective to the views of a bunch of fans/amateurs. None of us work for an NFL front office, or a college football program. We have access to a plethora of tools, but we're not the best lot to break down the nuances of each position with any sort of consistency and - well, we're all going to have some sort of bias in the discussion. We're fans, that's what we do. I agree... Just saying stats don't always tell the whole story, especially when they lack context. I mean, I could easily use stats to argue Browns case, but does that prove h is definitely better? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: I don't see how you can claim he has better hands with any kind of certainty. Just to pop my head in a bit on this topic, I think it's close but Hopkins has the better hands. I've noticed Brown uses his body a lot to secure passes while Hopkins has those big mitts that pluck the ball with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 53 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: I agree... Just saying stats don't always tell the whole story, especially when they lack context. I mean, I could easily use stats to argue Browns case, but does that prove h is definitely better? No. It's definitely more art than science, I'll agree. I think a fair combo would be to use stats to illuminate what we know. Ultimately, we know these two are at the top of the the mountain - not just in the AFC, in all of football. Every single team in the league would give up multiple 1st rounders for either guy, even if it's a rental. In my amateur, fanboy view - Hopkins is the better pure receiver, simply because of supporting cast deficiency. Not saying that Brown is significantly lesser, but his opportunities will be more impactful simply because he's got a more competent offense around him. He's taking full advantage of the personnel around him, which is what good/elite players do. But - amateur/fanboy opinion, it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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