Golfman Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: Yes...a top 10 TE is a warm body. This is a really, really bad take to have. He's not a top 10 TE. At one point he was great, he's below average. I think you should look at the ratings incognito put up a few pages back. He's not earning his pay day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 6 hours ago, gopackgo27 said: How do we replace Jimmy Graham's irreplaceable production? Better year 2 production from MVS & ESB, more involvement in the passing game for Aaron Jones, take a TE during the 1st 2 days of the draft, upgrade at slot in FA or Draft. Seems pretty easy to me. What kind of production do you think a rookie TE is going to have? The two most productive rookie TEs this year were Chris Herndon (39 receptions, 502 receiving yards, and 4 TD receptions on 56 targets) and Mark Andrews (34 receptions, 552 receiving yards, and 3 TD receptions on 50 targets). Meanwhile, Jimmy Graham had 55 receptions, 636 receiving yards, and 2 TD receptions. Oh, and have we mentioned that our starting QB doesn't like throwing to young players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, CWood21 said: And go into 2019 with at best a warm body at TE, no thanks. I mean the days of Ted Thompson are over. Obviously, you only cut Graham if you add a Cook, James, etc. in FA. You don't cut him and replace him with Tonyan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, gopackgo27 said: So Jimmy Graham but 10 years younger, gotcha. He was a top 10 producer at the position. He outproduced ALL of the rookies last year. And with a broken thumb nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Golfman said: He's not a top 10 TE. At one point he was great, he's below average. I think you should look at the ratings incognito put up a few pages back. He's not earning his pay day. He was top 10 in receptions among TEs. Fact. He was top 10 in receiving yards. Fact. He was 9th in YPR among TEs with at least 30 receptions. Fact. He was a top 10 TE last year. There's literally no argument to be made based on facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopackgo27 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Just now, CWood21 said: What kind of production do you think a rookie TE is going to have? The two most productive rookie TEs this year were Chris Herndon (39 receptions, 502 receiving yards, and 4 TD receptions on 56 targets) and Mark Andrews (34 receptions, 552 receiving yards, and 3 TD receptions on 50 targets). Meanwhile, Jimmy Graham had 55 receptions, 636 receiving yards, and 2 TD receptions. Oh, and have we mentioned that our starting QB doesn't like throwing to young players? This is such a bad take on so many levels. You sound like the type of guy who puts $100 on red because black has hit 10 straight times, that's not how it works. I understand replacing Graham's unreal production (10 games with 3 or less catches, 9 games w less than 35 yards and 2 TDs) seems daunting but it doesn't JUST have to come from a rookie TE. Like I said but you for some reason ignored...more production out ESB & MVS, get Aaron Jones more involved in the passing game, upgrade at slot, Geronimo coming back, seems a very easy path to me to replace Jimmy Graham, without even mentioning a rookie TE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 hours ago, incognito_man said: Luke Stocker - 76.8 (6) - 15/165/2 Jared Cook - 75.7 (9) - 68/896/6 How does this even make sense? The guy was vastly superior in terms of production, yet is behind him in rankings. Unless Stocker is this godsend as a blocker, this is another reason why I really don't use PFF rankings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopackgo27 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: He was top 10 in receptions among TEs. Fact. He was top 10 in receiving yards. Fact. He was 9th in YPR among TEs with at least 30 receptions. Fact. He was a top 10 TE last year. There's literally no argument to be made based on facts. Is this really the standard now? If so yikes. Edited January 26, 2019 by gopackgo27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: What kind of production do you think a rookie TE is going to have? The two most productive rookie TEs this year were Chris Herndon (39 receptions, 502 receiving yards, and 4 TD receptions on 56 targets) and Mark Andrews (34 receptions, 552 receiving yards, and 3 TD receptions on 50 targets). Meanwhile, Jimmy Graham had 55 receptions, 636 receiving yards, and 2 TD receptions. Oh, and have we mentioned that our starting QB doesn't like throwing to young players? You keep assuming without Graham nobody is going to be able to account for those yards? That is not fact rather fiction. You also keep assuming the position can't be addressed and fixed for more than just this year by cutting him, another fallacy. Your theory, as close as I can tell, is he's not worth the 12+ million we are paying him this year, but keep him anyway. My theory is that is bad business and you fix the position going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Just now, gopackgo27 said: This is such a bad take on so many levels. You sound like the type of guy who puts $100 on red because black has hit 10 straight times, that's not how it works. I understand replacing Graham's unreal production (10 games with 3 or less catches, 9 games w less than 35 yards and 2 TDs) seems daunting but it doesn't JUST have to come from a rookie TE. Like I said but you for some reason ignored...more production out ESB & MVS, get Aaron Jones more involved in the passing game, upgrade at slot, Geronimo coming back, seems a very easy path to me to replace Jimmy Graham, without even mentioning a rookie TE. You had a rookie QB in New York with a rather poor WR crew whose best friend is going to be a TE. The fact is that Jimmy Graham was a top 10 TE last year by just about every significant statistic. Neither Mark Andrews or Chris Herndon were. Fact. The argument is whether or not a rookie TE is going to outproduce Jimmy Graham in 2019? Unless you believe that a rookie TE is going to be one of the rare exceptions in terms of being a big impact as a rookie OR you think Jimmy Graham is going to fall off the face of the earth, this isn't an argument. Jimmy Graham will almost assuredly be more productive next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, CWood21 said: He was top 10 in receptions among TEs. Fact. He was top 10 in receiving yards. Fact. He was 9th in YPR among TEs with at least 30 receptions. Fact. He was a top 10 TE last year. There's literally no argument to be made based on facts. He blocks like ****! His red zone efficiency was bottom or near the bottom. He was our #2 option and his percentage of completions per opportunity was near the bottom too. We can go back and forth all day! We won't agree, but there is no way Jimmy Graham earned being the TOP PAID TE in 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, gopackgo27 said: Is this really the standard now? If so yikes. Come up with something than some arbitrary stance with absolutely nothing to back it up, I'm interested in hearing it. But the entire argument is based around feelings, and not facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, CWood21 said: How does this even make sense? The guy was vastly superior in terms of production, yet is behind him in rankings. Unless Stocker is this godsend as a blocker, this is another reason why I really don't use PFF rankings. I think he is which is why he would be a good pickup (and probably cheap) even if we keep Graham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Golfman said: You keep assuming without Graham nobody is going to be able to account for those yards? That is not fact rather fiction. You also keep assuming the position can't be addressed and fixed for more than just this year by cutting him, another fallacy. Your theory, as close as I can tell, is he's not worth the 12+ million we are paying him this year, but keep him anyway. My theory is that is bad business and you fix the position going forward. Whose replacing him? You're either managing to either mend fences with Jared Cook or hoping that your rookie TE manages to outproduce YEARS of history. Which one is more likely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, Golfman said: He's not a top 10 TE. At one point he was great, he's below average. I think you should look at the ratings incognito put up a few pages back. He's not earning his pay day. Based off what? Your completely arbitrary opinion. Sorry, I'm going to have to ask for a bit more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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