2019 Free Agent Discussion

[ThatJerkDave]

21 hours ago, TheGreatZepp said:

How many people really wanted Burnett to leave last year if money wasn’t the issue? He got lined up in all sorts of situations that left him in spots where he had to make open field tackles. That shows athletic ability and toughness right there! I don’t recall him ever playing two hand touch out there, he made tackles and had good agility, to me his biggest short coming(speed) was exasperated because the entire defense was slow and what position do we see on the tv when a slower defender gets burned? The safety trying to come over and make a play from even further away!

 

this made me think of Nick Collins, he could of been a hall of famer 😔

I'll bite, though I admit that it was kind of money related.  I think I was the first to suggest it, but Burnett is not a player that you give that big third contract to.  That is for superstars.  At the time we had drafted a very promising athlete in Josh Jones, and had two UDFAs, Brice and Evans, who came in and played well.  These three young players looked to be trending in the correct direction, were younger, and cheaper.  We also had a top 10 safety who was also improving, and younger in HaHa Clinton-Dix.  With hindsight, none of the three youngsters developed like it looked like they could, and HaHa was not what we thought we had.  But with the info that we had at the time, I have no problem with letting Burnett go.  

[Golfman]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Even more proof that it wasn't Graham, it was Rodgers.  I know it's not popular, but Rodgers deserves his fair share of the criticism.

I've not absolved Rodgers from anything. I've been critical. On another forum I suggested we trade him to Cleveland last off season and rob them blind. That doesn't seem crazy any longer. 

Graham doesn't pass the eye test for me. He's clearly lost what made him great, his superior athleticism. He's no longer a plus athlete at the position. He's just not and you can't expect that to come back when he's a year older. As you stated, no lower body injuries.

Anyway, have a good night. If we keep him I'll be rooting for him. 

 

[CWood21]

7 minutes ago, Golfman said:

I've not absolved Rodgers from anything. I've been critical. On another forum I suggested we trade him to Cleveland last off season and rob them blind. That doesn't seem crazy any longer. 

Graham doesn't pass the eye test for me. He's clearly lost what made him great, his superior athleticism. He's no longer a plus athlete at the position. He's just not and you can't expect that to come back when he's a year older. As you stated, no lower body injuries.

Anyway, have a good night. If we keep him I'll be rooting for him. 

Nobody is saying he's a superior athlete.  But when we're talking about how a third string TE for the Ravens and a move TE with one big game is supposed to be the "answer" at TE.

[squire12]

45 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Let me ask you this, what would have caused him to suddenly not get open?  As far as I'm aware, he didn't have any lower body injuries.

Natural aging process.  Sometimes a players athleticism fades slowly, sometimes it goes quickly.  Neither of us know for sure.  Maybe he had an undisclosed LE injury.  Maybe teams started to defend him differently and Graham did not have the ability/skills/athleticism to get open after that adjustment by opponents.  Maybe Rodgers was salty toward Graham and decided to not throw to him as often.  Maybe MM stopped calling plays where Graham was a early read in the progressions.

Not sure how many more options there might be.  

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

15 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Natural aging process.  Sometimes a players athleticism fades slowly, sometimes it goes quickly.  Neither of us know for sure.  Maybe he had an undisclosed LE injury.  Maybe teams started to defend him differently and Graham did not have the ability/skills/athleticism to get open after that adjustment by opponents.  Maybe Rodgers was salty toward Graham and decided to not throw to him as often.  Maybe MM stopped calling plays where Graham was a early read in the progressions.

Not sure how many more options there might be.  

Maybe he fractured his thumb against Seattle, they went on to lose the game, the team unraveled and the entire team including Graham underperformed for the rest of the season?

 

[incognito_man]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

How does this even make sense?  The guy was vastly superior in terms of production, yet is behind him in rankings.  Unless Stocker is this godsend as a blocker, this is another reason why I really don't use PFF rankings.

So what is your TE grading system and how do they score and why is yours better?

[Mazrimiv]

14 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Let me ask you this, what would have caused him to suddenly not get open?  As far as I'm aware, he didn't have any lower body injuries.

A 32 year old TE with an injury history being used as an inline blocker more than he's suited to not holding up over the course of 17 weeks?

[MacReady]

We aren't risking the embarrassment of a fourth consecutive failed TE signing.  Even if we cut Graham, we aren't signing another free agent tight end.  It has become a really bad joke for us how much we've thrown at the tight end position, so we're not signing a guy like Stocker who everybody knows isn't half the receiving threat Graham is. 

Seriously... Talk of Luke Stocker is ridiculous.  He's been a nobody for nine years in this league and suddenly he gets a good PFF score and has 15 receptions with 2 touchdowns and people think he's a good option to replace a guy who just had the 9th most receptions and 9th most yards in the NFL? 

How do brains get like this?  What mental gymnastics are people going through? 

And it's not just Stocker.  Maxx Williams?  Maxx Williams?  He's been a Raven for three years before this year.  Does anyone really think if the Ravens thought Maxx Williams had any shot at all at being a solid tight end they would have neglected the second round pick they spent on him only to use a first round pick on a 25-year-old TE this year?  Using a first on a 25-year-old player at any position screams desperation, on a TE?  That screams full on ridiculous reach. 

Maybe Stocker had such a high PFF rating because LaFleur got more out of him than anybody had in Stocker's previous 9 years in the league.  If so, maybe... Just maybe LaFleur can get a lot more out of a TE who, up until playing for McCarthy and Rodgers, had been creating a Hall of Fame resume for himself. 

And like I've said a thousand times, it takes time for Rodgers to trust his tight ends. 

Richard Rodgers had 58 receptions in his second season with us.  You think that's because he was good?  Nope.  It was because Rodgers trusted him.  Remember Davante's 2015 season?  It was the one everyone wanted us to cut him.  What happened the year after that?  He earned Aaron's trust and had a monster season. 

For the love of God, pay attention to the history of your own team.  It gets tiring pointing out how these trends repeat themselves. 

Jimmy Graham is going to have 75 receptions for 825 yards and 8 touchdowns next year if Gute doesn't pull an idiot move and cut him and I don't want to have to remind everyone how right I was and how wrong you were. 

Sign a 9 year veteran who wasn't the receiving threat Jimmy Graham will be in two years in his prime.  Just insane. 

People are seriously talking about Luke Stocker?  This is just incredulous to me. 

Luke Stocker has 5 career touchdown receptions. 

[Mazrimiv]

TE is likely going to be ugly next season with or without Graham.  Best hope IMO is that the team can develop a TE prospect who is ready to step in for 2020. 

[packfanfb]

^^ Stocker isnt a replacement for Graham, more of a replacement for Lewis. Guy played with LaFleur last year and can block and play H-back, two things Graham can't do. I'm assuming we'll keep Graham but with Lewis and Kendricks likely gone, I'd grab a low value guy like Stocker and draft a TE or two in the mid-rounds. Tonyan is the other candidate to make the team as a No. 4.

[Mazrimiv]

12 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Jimmy Graham is going to have 75 receptions for 825 yards and 8 touchdowns next year if Gute doesn't pull an idiot move and cut him and I don't want to have to remind everyone how right I was and how wrong you were.

I only wish Vegas was willing to post odds on this.  I'd put up a lot of money betting against Graham posting those numbers in GB next season.

EDIT: One of those three stats?  Maybe.  All three?  Very unlikely.  Ertz and Kelce were the only TE's to hit those numbers in 2018.  In 2017 it was only Kelce.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Mazrimiv

[Shanedorf]

Here's a link to the  "Positional Spending"  lists at OverTheCap
They separate it out both by position and by entire offense/defense
You can click on any column and sort it

https://overthecap.com/positional-spending/

The Packers rankings for 2019 - 2020 may offer hints about where they will spend in FA and where they might cut cap
The first number is the Packers 2019 ranking and the 2nd is for 2020.
Interesting to note the impact of paying top dollars to the premium positions like QB, LT, pass rusher

QB..... 9  /  1
RB.....21 / 22
WR.....22 / 14
TE.....  5  / 4
OL .....5  / 6
Offense: .....5  / 2

 

DL..... 21 / 32
LB .....12 / 7
S .....17 / 24
CB .....26 / 29
Defense: ..... 28 / 29

[incognito_man]

2 hours ago, packfanfb said:

^^ Stocker isnt a replacement for Graham, more of a replacement for Lewis. Guy played with LaFleur last year and can block and play H-back, two things Graham can't do. I'm assuming we'll keep Graham but with Lewis and Kendricks likely gone, I'd grab a low value guy like Stocker and draft a TE or two in the mid-rounds. Tonyan is the other candidate to make the team as a No. 4.

this

Don't think anyone thinks Stocker is a Graham-replacement. He's familiar w/ LaFleur and a good candidate to be TE2 in GB IMO.

[incognito_man]

13 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Here's a link to the  "Positional Spending"  lists at OverTheCap
They separate it out both by position and by entire offense/defense
You can click on any column and sort it

https://overthecap.com/positional-spending/

The Packers rankings for 2019 - 2020 may offer hints about where they will spend in FA and where they might cut cap
The first number is the Packers 2019 ranking and the 2nd is for 2020.
Interesting to note the impact of paying top dollars to the premium positions like QB, LT, pass rusher

QB..... 9  /  1
RB.....21 / 22
WR.....22 / 14
TE.....  5  / 4
OL .....5  / 6
Offense: .....5  / 2

 

DL..... 21 / 32
LB .....12 / 7
S .....17 / 24
CB .....26 / 29
Defense: ..... 28 / 29

correlates well with my thoughts we need to get at least 3 defensive starters in FA this offseason.

[Shanedorf]

26 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

correlates well with my thoughts we need to get at least 3 defensive starters in FA this offseason.

And that correlates with The Wolf Way

"Draft the offense so they can all grow together
Use trades and FAs to patch the defense -  because it's a smaller playbook and faster to assimilate"

If you look at PackerRainman's recent offseason mock v2.0, that's what he did.
He used FA to bolster EDGE and Safety and he invested his top draft picks on offense