GDT Steelers vs Raiduhs

[CKSteeler]

33 minutes ago, warfelg said:

2) Your comment has nothing to do with mine.  We shouldn't have been in that place if Ben was able to play.

Which according to the doctors, Ben, and Tomlin himself...he was able to play. But Tomlin didn't want to interrupt the flow of the game (you know, turning the ball over on downs, punting, and turning it over) and what not.

But even then, I'll reiterate - conspiracy theory about Ben throwing the game aside, Tomlin's abject stupidity at the end is indefensible. Once again, they ran out of time and left the stadium with a TO they never used.

I don't even think you're being mendacious right now with how you phrased this. I just think you're in extreme denial. Nearly everything you've argued about this team has been horribly wrong. Who is more responsible for the continued sucking of Chris Boswell - Roethlisberger or Tomlin? Who is more responsible for guys like Conner and Grimble's soft fumbles against Denver (10-14 point swings that sure do change your argument there)? Who is responsible for holding Roethlisberger out of the game yesterday until they coughed up their whopping 4 point lead? Who is more responsible for the defense blowing a 16 point lead against San Diego, Roethlisberger or Tomlin?

 

35 minutes ago, warfelg said:

4) Since the Carolina game, the report date for Bell, this offense has scored:

20, 17, 30, 21

If I told you any team had a defense holding teams to a 19.6 points per game, even with a last 4 of 24 PPG, with this offense, you would expect that to be a 4-0 stretch.

Do we need to break things down in each of these games?  The largest blown lead in Steelers history at home. One in which, like this week, he allowed the opponent to milk the clock entirely. A game in Denver where an idiot TE thought it was more important to try and bulldoze a safety instead of just score, a RB who has had ball security issues all year gave up another easy fumble (Mike Tomlin's response, as he has stated all year, is that he remained unconcerned by the matter), and they allowed CASE KEENUM to go down with ease for the go-ahead score.

Let's also remind people of how often Mike Tomlin has talked about being just fine with these tight games against bad football teams. How even mid-games in which he's trailing to some garbage feeder he'll say he's not concerned by how the game's unfolding. If NFL teams are a reflection of their head coach, it doesn't speak well for Tomlin that his is stupid, sloppy, and complacent.

Final note - look at the defenses played over that stretch. Look at the offenses/QB's played during that stretch. Then consider they had 4th quarter leads in the last three, and they allowed the opponent to score TD's to take the lead three times and Mike Tomlin left his offense with no time to respond in two of them.

The defense hasn't forced a turnover since Carolina. Even when passes are thrown right into the hands of DB's, they screw it up. But that's the unit Mike T wants to rely on when the game is on the line.

42 minutes ago, warfelg said:

But for some reason people want to keep pointing to the defense.

Maybe Mike Tomlin should stop leaving the game in their hands.You know, like he has the last two weeks. What this is about is the absolute retardation displayed by the head coach.

43 minutes ago, warfelg said:

and how horrible Ben has been in these games since we've known Bell won't return

Ben out played Philip Rivers last week and lost. Only in the make believe world where Ben isn't allowed to miss a pass that some of you live in did he play poorly. He missed Hunter on a pass and then had one bonehead throw. And that's not even counting his top 5 paid kicker once again missing a pretty easy kick early in the game.

Even though his coach held him out of the game for 1.5 quarters last week, he led two game winning drives - one with like 30 seconds - and played near perfectly. Do you want to review what Ben did after he finally came back in?

Newsflash - Mike Tomlin will eventually get fired. And it's going to coincide with not having #7 there sucking it up and all. It'll be a shame that Mike T won't be able to really enjoy not being saddled with that turnover machine Ben.

Mike Tomlin is unconcerned by James Conner's fumbles.

Mike Tomlin is unconcerned by Chris Boswell sucking.

Mike Tomlin is unconcerned when his team lets bottom feeders hang around and hang around until they steal games from him in the last seconds. Flow of the game and all.

[CKSteeler]

Quote

No coach who had to answer for his decision would have chosen to play Dobbs over Roethlisberger. Unless said coach was an absolute half-wit.

 

[warfelg]

24 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

we score din the RZ with just over 2 minutes left. 

Then the raiders went all the way down the field, and scored - a TD on a passing play of course.

Blame with field or boswell, but it shouldn't boil down to that.  In the end, once again the D failed when it mattered. Carr threw a perfect pass and edmunds had great coverage, but this game should never have been this close.  AB was ignored, and was irate at the end of the game on the sideline

And the bold is why I'm not going to hang it on Boswell or giving up the TD like we did.  The game should have never been this close.  And based on the ease of moving the ball on the last two drives, it's mind boggling we didn't do so earlier.

[CKSteeler]

Only mind boggling when you forget that the medically cleared franchise QB was held out for 1.5 quarters of the game..

[warfelg]

5 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Only mind boggling when you forget that the medically cleared franchise QB was held out for 1.5 quarters of the game..

If he was medically cleared he should be fighting to be back on the field right?  Or is it Tomlins fault Ben didn't fight?

 

If Ben grabbed his helmet after halftime and ran into the huddle who's stopping him?

[CKSteeler]

40 minutes ago, warfelg said:

If he was medically cleared he should be fighting to be back on the field right?  Or is it Tomlins fault Ben didn't fight?

 

If Ben grabbed his helmet after halftime and ran into the huddle who's stopping him?

I'd be perfectly fine with Ben telling Tomlin off, personally. But I find it rather odd that people who defend Tomlin and then attack Ben when he questions coaches publicly are placing ultimate blame on him for not openly defying his coach mid game. Just like Jacksonville last year - Ben was supposed to ignore his offensive coordinator (likely acting on a mandate from his owner) and head coach and call a QB sneak on his own. A play the team probably doesn't even practice. In a playoff game, on fourth down. I'd be fine with this myself.

So let's be clear - your argument is that Tomlin's judgement is so bad that Roethlisberger needs to just ignore him. He needs to Varsity Blues and tie Tomlin up in the lockerroom at half time and make himself the player-coach or something. Repeatedly. In must win games. But the guy is just too valuable to fire. And Roethlisberger doing this will have no negative repercussions for Tomlin and his staff. No siree.

[VigilantZombie]

I personally wish that is what had happened.  If I were in Ben's shoes I would've given Tomlin the finger on live televison and told him flat out I plan to win by being on the field.  But I also don't fault Ben for respecting his coach even if I'm sure he didn't agree with him.  I think there's been a rift between Ben and Tomlin since Tomlin got here.  Let's be honest, Ben has never really seen eye to eye with any of the OC decisions Tomlin has made.  He was in love with Arians but not so much Haley and I'm not sure what's going on with Fichtner but there's tension all over the place from more than a few offensive players.

Ben not being put back in is 100% on Tomlin.

[warfelg]

10 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

I personally wish that is what had happened.  If I were in Ben's shoes I would've given Tomlin the finger on live televison and told him flat out I plan to win by being on the field.  But I also don't fault Ben for respecting his coach even if I'm sure he didn't agree with him.  I think there's been a rift between Ben and Tomlin since Tomlin got here.  Let's be honest, Ben has never really seen eye to eye with any of the OC decisions Tomlin has made.  He was in love with Arians but not so much Haley and I'm not sure what's going on with Fichtner but there's tension all over the place from more than a few offensive players.

Ben not being put back in is 100% on Tomlin.

Yea, but like I said.....if Ben knew he was ok why didn't he fight to get in there?  I dunno.  Like we're saying with other stuff both are to blame here.  Tomlin shouldn't have taken the game for granted, and Ben should have fought to be in there.  For all the drama Ben loves, he could have spun this to winning a must win game with bad ribs.

[Dcash4]

7 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Ben not being put back in is 100% on Tomlin.

Or it’s not. We don’t have the full story. 

A coach keeping his starting QB out of a game for a backup after the starter is medically cleared is odd. It’s also on point for the Tomlin mantra of standard is the standard. 

The starting quarterback who is medically clearened not forcing his way back into a game that the team desperately needs to win is also odd. But, it too fits the Big Ben mantra of doing as a coach says because you can’t be blamed for it later. 

There is more to the story. We don’t have the full picture. I think either Ben was more injured than it seemed or they literally thought they could coast to a win against the raiders (both Ben and Tomlin making that decision together). Hopefully, the media pushes this tomorrow. It’s an impactful insight to the future. 

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

True, I tend to put the 40-20 area as part of it.  Many coaches (including myself) call it the 'maroon zone' where we expect some form of points.

Even through I'm a defensive coach most offensive coaches will tell you what their playcalling looks like:

1-40 own side of the field: Conservative.  Move the ball.  Safe plays meant to get 1st downs.

Own 40 - Opponent 40:  High risk area.  This is where you call your deep shot plays, trick plays, and 7-9 step drops.

40-20: Conservative again.  Worst case you try to stay here to preserve the FG attempts.  This is where Ben is turning the ball over at a high rate.

20-Goal: This is where you have to work quite a few calculated risks.

Makes more sense to look at it that way. My background the offensive side and that’s how we broke it down too essentially. 

I would love to see a breakdown of the field position for the last plays of each of our drives and the outcomes of that play. Between the 6 missed Boswell field goals from 30-49 and the turnovers - crossing the 50 had been a war zone of hazards for an offense that can clearly move the ball and has a great understanding of how to score inside the 20.

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Or it’s not. We don’t have the full story. 

A coach keeping his starting QB out of a game for a backup after the starter is medically cleared is odd. It’s also on point for the Tomlin mantra of standard is the standard. 

The starting quarterback who is medically clearened not forcing his way back into a game that the team desperately needs to win is also odd. But, it too fits the Big Ben mantra of doing as a coach says because you can’t be blamed for it later. 

There is more to the story. We don’t have the full picture. I think either Ben was more injured than it seemed or they literally thought they could coast to a win against the raiders (both Ben and Tomlin making that decision together). Hopefully, the media pushes this tomorrow. It’s an impactful insight to the future. 

On top of all of this, it was coming out of halftime thing too.  Like they came out of halftime ok with this?  Did something happen in the lockerroom?  Was Ben not ok, and they lied that he was for injury reporting reasons (somehow)?

Or was it Ben being a drama queen again and wanting to be the injured hobbled QB coming in to win a must win game in dramatic fashion?

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Makes more sense to look at it that way. My background the offensive side and that’s how we broke it down too essentially. 

I would love to see a breakdown of the field position for the last plays of each of our drives and the outcomes of that play. Between the 6 missed Boswell field goals from 30-49 and the turnovers - crossing the 50 had been a war zone of hazards for an offense that can clearly move the ball and has a great understanding of how to score inside the 20.

I feel like they have flipped the 40-40 zone and Maroon zone play calling TBH.  I feel like Ben's INT's have come off deep throws in the 40-20 zone, and between the 40's we're leaning hard on the screen game.

If I were calling defensive game against the Steelers, I would call simple cover-2 concepts on their side of the field.  Tell everyone to keep the plays in front of you, make sure tackles, crash the run when it comes.  As soon as they hit the 40, I'm throwing unbalanced blitzes and zone blitzes with run design elements.  As soon as they hit the 40, I call a cover-0 all out blitz.

[VigilantZombie]

I do understand where each of you are coming from and saying that we don't know the whole story because I feel like that is a fair statement to make. However it is my opinion that when you know that a player has been medically cleared as a head coach it is your responsibility to make the decision to put them back in the game not the players. That is why I feel the way I do about it being Mike tomlin's fault

[warfelg]

5 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

I do understand where each of you are coming from and saying that we don't know the whole story because I feel like that is a fair statement to make. However it is my opinion that when you know that a player has been medically cleared as a head coach it is your responsibility to make the decision to put them back in the game not the players. That is why I feel the way I do about it being Mike tomlin's fault

And I don't blame you for feeling that either.  Of all the strange stories that have happened with this team, this is one of the strangest in game developments.  Like how the hell did you land on this decision?  Why didn't one or the other fight what the decision was?  I'm just hard pressed to say 100% one guys fault because the other one has a say too.

[Dcash4]

11 minutes ago, warfelg said:

If I were calling defensive game against the Steelers, I would call simple cover-2 concepts on their side of the field.  Tell everyone to keep the plays in front of you, make sure tackles, crash the run when it comes.  As soon as they hit the 40, I'm throwing unbalanced blitzes and zone blitzes with run design elements.  As soon as they hit the 40, I call a cover-0 all out blitz.

Man 2 has been a thorn in our side the last two years. Our unwillingness (rather, Ben’s unwillingness) to run on two high safeties and numbers hurts. The lack of a field stretcher and Ben’s desire to throw into tight, covered windows instead of living to play another day kills drives. It absolutely stalls drives before they begin. Teams seem to regroup on at halftime and we seem to run out of plans and just wing it. 

It’s just been so frustrating to me watching a team that can be so effective, efficient, and balanced....just lose all semblance of what they had success with.