Steelers vs. Saints GDT

[AFF]

17 hours ago, warfelg said:

Which is why I ask what I do. It’s not a blind defense of Tomlin. It’s a straight up what are the expectations? If it’s to eliminate flaws or win a loaf of SBs good luck. If it’s you think the team needs a new voice and a new vision, I don’t disagree. 

But if it needs a fresh voice and eyes, why is Tomlin the only one? Why not Colbert going? Khan going? Butler? Why is Tomlin singled out?

It needs fresh blood.

For one of the more “talented” teams, they usually underperform...

Colbert has given the team enough overall talent. Khan? The team is in solid shape cap wise...Butler is debatable...probably give him 1 more year.

You have to risk getting somebody worse cause this mediocrity they’re currently getting IS NOT cutting it.

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

It needs fresh blood.

For one of the more “talented” teams, they usually underperform...

Colbert has given the team enough overall talent. Khan? The team is in solid shape cap wise...Butler is debatable...probably give him 1 more year.

Ben, Conner, Juju, Brown, DeCastro....sure.  Not a single defensive player in the top 5 most talented players on this team. See an issue there?

 

Also if it needs fresh blood....why not start with coordinators?  Butler has been with this team longer than Tomlin.  Fitchner has been in Ben's ear for 8-ish years now.

[AFF]

25 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Ben, Conner, Juju, Brown, DeCastro....sure.  Not a single defensive player in the top 5 most talented players on this team. See an issue there?

 

Also if it needs fresh blood....why not start with coordinators?  Butler has been with this team longer than Tomlin.  Fitchner has been in Ben's ear for 8-ish years now.

Team has enough overall talent...defense isn’t great by any means but the Steelers have an offense capable of scoring 35+ every week.

Colbert having 1/7 of cap in 1 player hamstrings a bit...Seattle and Baltimore have found that out recently...not without fault by any means but especially draft wise Tomlin has at least a decent amount of input into players picked as well.

Butler isn’t going to make anyone forget **** LeBeau but as you said yourself it doesn’t have any elite talent to work with since Shazier got injured...Watt/Hayward/Haden profile in good to very good area but that’s about it.

Can’t complain about offense overall..improved in red zone significantly IIRC which was biggest problem.

Again, Tomlins issues haven’t changed..clock management....bi-polar levels of turtling or aggressiveness...playing to level of competition etc etc .

[warfelg]

You skipped one entire side of the ball. Kinda my point there. We’re a talented offensive football team. We’re not a talented football team. 

 

And let’s start actually putting some blame on players for blowing simple assignments, FO for picking poor players. Not everything is singularly on Tomlin; yet the way some of y’all talk you would think nothing other than only the HC is the problem. 

[warfelg]

Oh BTW name me a coach without a single flaw.  

[3rivers]

On 2018-12-24 at 11:30 AM, warfelg said:

And what’s the answer if we fire Tomlin and the next coach fails to make the playoffs? Fire him too? What about the one after that? If Colbert doesn’t draft a franchise QB right when ben retires should we fire Colbert? What if that GM pulls us to the bottom of the league?

 

If the expectation is Super Bowls then everyone, including GM and scouts are held to that standard too, as is the next coach, right?

Any new coach deserves a few years unless he is like that trash they had down at atlanta that bailed on them to back to NCAA. What if the new coach is like, Nagy, McVay, Peterson, Lynn, Zimmer, Carol etc. There are coaches out there capable, it's the ownerships duty to find them. To sit here and think there aren't other options that would be successful would indicate it's time to emerge from the shell.

Maybe it won't be needed though. Imagine we win with a last second FG and the browns win. And then we also stop making bad coaching decisions and play to our ability, don't have LB's covering WR's , keep the best DL, RB on the field  and don't go for 4th down in our own end when our D is playing good.

The season isn't over yet,

[MOSteelers56]

I kind of like what Fitchner showed as the season progressed. He started poorly but once he started feeding Connor we looked awesome. Then Connor goes down and he looked shaky until we started throwing the 5 wide sets. I think he showed a lot of adaptability and I definitely think he showed enough to be brought back. 

We need to replace Butler, though. We need new eyes on the defense. We also need to sign a playmaking defensive player in FA and draft a bunch of defense.

[VigilantZombie]

2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I kind of like what Fitchner showed as the season progressed. He started poorly but once he started feeding Connor we looked awesome. Then Connor goes down and he looked shaky until we started throwing the 5 wide sets. I think he showed a lot of adaptability and I definitely think he showed enough to be brought back. 

We need to replace Butler, though. We need new eyes on the defense. We also need to sign a playmaking defensive player in FA and draft a bunch of defense.

I agree. Danny Smith, Keith Butler and both LB coaches need to go.

We need to add someone like Deone Bucannon imo. Maybe a CB or S as well. 

[warfelg]

2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I kind of like what Fitchner showed as the season progressed. He started poorly but once he started feeding Connor we looked awesome. Then Connor goes down and he looked shaky until we started throwing the 5 wide sets. I think he showed a lot of adaptability and I definitely think he showed enough to be brought back. 

We need to replace Butler, though. We need new eyes on the defense. We also need to sign a playmaking defensive player in FA and draft a bunch of defense.

I would allow Manchuck to have a bigger day in the offense though. Allow him to be part of the game planning. Have a bigger voice. Be the guy pounding the table to run it. 

[MOSteelers56]

I talked to a friend and he compared running the ball to throwing a couple passes to your rebounding/defensive center in basketball to get him easy dunks. It it sort of a reward for the O-line and it keeps their heads in the game. I think our line is far too talented to not run it.

[Dcash4]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

I would allow Manchuck to have a bigger day in the offense though. Allow him to be part of the game planning. Have a bigger voice. Be the guy pounding the table to run it. 

Love the idea, but you are gonna have to ask Ben’s permission first. Fitchner has the title, but that’s Ben’s room.  

[CKSteeler]

The Steelers just sent another 6 players to the Pro Bowl. The only two missing pieces from last year when Tomlin himself stated that no one would out-talent his team (his own words and argument) are Shazier and Bell. They've replaced Bell's production, sans, ball protection (though, Tomlin is also the guy who stated he was not concerned with that issue and his back earlier in the year).

Tomlin has a lot of say on draft day. Again, this is per Tomlin. You want to try and put it all on Colbert that they drafted Burns, and ignore that Tomlin is a former defensive backs coach who has been here for 11 years? Be my guest. I could stand a more aggressive approach to improving the team at times, but the drafting has been overall fine. Colbert has given Tomlin way more than enough talent to where he should be able to get this team into the post-season at least. That's despite the fact that they have $15 million in cap space used on a guy who didn't even show up this year.

Butler...dear god, do I have to repeat myself on this again? There is no attack on Butler you can make that doesn't make Tomlin look dumb as hell, as well. And Butler ultimately isn't responsible for a lot of the key decisions that have cost this team games. If Tomlin goes, Butler is going, too. I don't even know why you'd bother to make him the scapegoat. Do I need to rehash the argument that you've refused to respond to for over a month now? It's comical that you accuse me of not ignoring your arguments given your constant attempts to deflect onto Butler - a guy no one is in love with to begin with.

I'm not going to comment on replacing the offensive coordinator. The only schematic issues I have with this offense stem, I reckon, from the conservative defensive head coach who thinks it's a great strategy to keep things close and try to win it in the last possession or two.

Tomlin is the god damn head coach of the team. The better question is why some of you are so hellbent on deflecting blame from him. He's the top guy. The buck stops with him. Especially when he's making obviously moronic decisions that are plain as day on a near weekly basis.

[AFF]

7 hours ago, warfelg said:

You skipped one entire side of the ball. Kinda my point there. We’re a talented offensive football team. We’re not a talented football team. 

 

And let’s start actually putting some blame on players for blowing simple assignments, FO for picking poor players. Not everything is singularly on Tomlin; yet the way some of y’all talk you would think nothing other than only the HC is the problem. 

?

Tomlin has made the same mistakes for years yet you keep wanting to deflect to everybody else(including the cap guy).

Everyome has a part but this man just put the season on his 3rd string cold RB and the freaking FB.

The defense was playing well so either just punt the ball and make em go 80 yards or if you wanna go for the throat, go put the ball in 7s hands on4th and 5 and go from there.

Yet...a FB dive...on 4th and 5...on your side of the field...”I wanted to be aggressive”...how about smart mike.

As CK said, he’s the head honcho.

Im not sure what Tomlin brings to this team...honestly, tell me?

Its not great schemes, out of the box thinking, great personnel decisions...or even a great motivator with the team perpetually playing down to level of competition.

 

[jebrick]

Arguments are good but they will not replace Tomlin until Ben retires.  That just wastes what little time Ben has left.  This is Cowher all over again.  He made the same mistakes over and over again until he had a team so good that they could overcome his mistakes.  Tony Dungy was the same way.

 

Otherwise we get another "head coach" that cant replace his OC or Oline coach and perhaps his DC.

[3rivers]

The OC was great when Connor was in there, but once Bell's made it past his deadline, things changes and then Connor got hurt. I still think Ben has too much say in the offence but will we ever know and will it ever changer for good? 

If they fire tom lion and hire Arians, then we will know