BDL Discussion Thread 2019

[DingoLadd]

On 2/21/2019 at 11:00 AM, MD4L said:

The Cuba Smugglers would like to announce @DingoLadd has joined the team in a limited capacity. We value his experience and look forward to keeping him in the leauge. 

Thank you for having me aboard. I look forward to the inevitable QB controversy. 

9 minutes ago, WFLukic said:

Yeah it wasn't a great trade, but Jack really isn't that good and the difference between he and Evans isn't that great. Very likely Evans becomes a better player over the next couple of years and is at a much cheaper cap hit too. I'll call them even, if anything an edge to Evans.

Davis & a 5th for Lamar Miller is ridiculous however. It should cost a 6th to get Miller's salary off your books, let alone being able to get a 1st round corner from last year and an IRL early 3rd for him.

I wouldn't have vetoed it - again, we allowed the best asset in the league by far in Patrick Mahomes be traded for a below average BDL starter at best. 

I'm gonna call b.s on that because Jack is a fantastic coverage LB. Dude is gonna be an all-pro next year.

But its Whickwock's team so I say allow him to do what he desires, we all have to learn that lesson eventually. 

That Mahomes trade was made like BDL week 3 or 4 so it wasn't that bad at the time, hindsight....not good.

[MD4L]

3 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

No, but he isnt worth Pat Mahomes and Im a Steeler fan.

Ragnarok is right to be upset. If he is willing we will go back to the table. I understand if he isnt.

I did not approve that trade and it was competed anyway. There was no real scenario that trade was going to reap equal value.

[Whicker]

One thing I'd recommend to newbies (or really anyone) is to run your trade by someone else if you're not absolutely sure. I promise no one is going to laugh at you for asking nor are they going to rush over and steal your trade. Nor are they going to screw you over with bad advice. And there's no difference between getting a trade done today versus tomorrow. 

Anyone can get over excited and agree to something without considering every angle. Sometimes it's just hard to really gauge value. As JLash and Rags can tell you, I still ask for their opinions from time to time. 

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, Whicker said:

One thing I'd recommend to newbies (or really anyone) is to run your trade by someone else if you're not absolutely sure. I promise no one is going to laugh at you for asking nor are they going to rush over and steal your trade. Nor are they going to screw you over with bad advice. And there's no difference between getting a trade done today versus tomorrow. 

Anyone can get over excited and agree to something without considering every angle. Sometimes it's just hard to really gauge value. As JLash and Rags can tell you, I still ask for their opinions from time to time. 

Honestly this is the best post I've seen on the matter yet. I'm not some helpless creature that doesn't know anything about anybody in football but in this situation I didn't do enough research and didn't have enough knowledge of just how good the players are involved on both sides and a second opinion would have been a good idea.

This situation though rests on my shoulders not on Ragnarok who was patient and frankly wasn't even sure he wanted to do this trade and get rid of Rashaan Evans anyway. This is a lesson learned I'm going to say that and I apologize to Ragnarok for the crap show it became

[MD4L]

Yeah that’s part of getting new people accoustomed to BDL. Guys want to make trades and perhaps leauge owners may not think highly of their decisions.

Regardless, it’s why there’s zero specific post I stated you needed to retract the trade. That was a decision you seemed to make after deliberations.

[VigilantZombie]

54 minutes ago, MD4L said:

Yeah that’s part of getting new people accoustomed to BDL. Guys want to make trades and perhaps leauge owners may not think highly of their decisions.

Regardless, it’s why there’s zero specific post I stated you needed to retract the trade. That was a decision you seemed to make after deliberations.

Actually someone told me i could do so,, sort of planted the idea, meaning to or not, i asked them they suggested i could if it was permitted and they said as long as its not officially approved yet. 

I should have talked to Ragnarok first though.

Edit: apparently the suggestion that someone could possibly have given me the idea to cancel the trade is offensive. Look it's like this Ragnarok and myself discussed in ranked a trade that we both agreed upon multiple people basically said it was a bad trade yeah we're hypocrites because they didn't veto the trade dad I'm the one that made the trade I accept that responsibility and if it is determined that the trade needs to go through because in reality Ragnarok does want to do this trade but I backed out I'm fine with that.

The idea was absolutely suggested to me that I could always cancel the trade. I was accepting of the fact that I already made the trade multiple people made it clear that I made a bad trade so much so that they had me convinced I did so in that became my mentality. However not once in this conversation I am referencing did I suggest canceling the trade. I accept full responsibility for initially green to the trade and the act of canceling the trade without first talking to Ragnarok to find out if he was okay with that.

Edited February 24, 2019 by wwhickok

[Ragnarok]

22 minutes ago, Whicker said:

One thing I'd recommend to newbies (or really anyone) is to run your trade by someone else if you're not absolutely sure. I promise no one is going to laugh at you for asking nor are they going to rush over and steal your trade. Nor are they going to screw you over with bad advice. And there's no difference between getting a trade done today versus tomorrow. 

Anyone can get over excited and agree to something without considering every angle. Sometimes it's just hard to really gauge value. As JLash and Rags can tell you, I still ask for their opinions from time to time. 

This is true.  I made wwhickok wait over 24 hours before I approved the trade because I wanted to do research and get @gopherwrestler's opinion on the matter.

18 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Honestly this is the best post I've seen on the matter yet. I'm not some helpless creature that doesn't know anything about anybody in football but in this situation I didn't do enough research and didn't have enough knowledge of just how good the players are involved on both sides and a second opinion would have been a good idea.

This situation though rests on my shoulders not on Ragnarok who was patient and frankly wasn't even sure he wanted to do this trade and get rid of Rashaan Evans anyway. This is a lesson learned I'm going to say that and I apologize to Ragnarok for the crap show it became

Part of this move also is that I did not and do not really want to move Evans.  If you want me to sell something I don't want to, you gotta pay for it.  Not to mention, Lamar Miller is a pretty damn good RB who is a FA after next year.  So he added value on my side.  

10 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Actually someone told me to do so, told me i could do so, i asked them they suggested i could if it was permitted and they said as long as its not officially approved yet. 

I should have talked to Ragnarok first though.

Once both parties confirm a trade, one side can't just back out during the approval process because they decided they don't like the deal anymore.  

[Scoundrel]

@SwoleXmad you want the backup trade council spot?

[VigilantZombie]

Can I pay the question and I'm new here so I'm not trying to question the Integrity of this league I have a feeling I'm going to have a lot of fun here and it looks like you guys put in a ton of work and do a really good job but I need to pose a question.

Hypothetically speaking a trade is posted that you think is really really bad and you have the power to veto the trade because you think it's poorly mismatched or unbalanced but instead you approve the trade and then publicly state how it's not necessarily video where the but it's really really really really bad. Isn't that entire scenario sort of contradictory? I mean if you feel like a trade is that bad don't you have the responsibility to veto it? I'm not saying that people should have saved me from myself so to speak and vetoed this trade I'm saying that in general if you feel a trade is so bad did it should be considered to be rejected but then you approve it I mean you see where I'm going with this right?

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

Can I pay the question and I'm new here so I'm not trying to question the Integrity of this league I have a feeling I'm going to have a lot of fun here and it looks like you guys put in a ton of work and do a really good job but I need to pose a question.

Hypothetically speaking a trade is posted that you think is really really bad and you have the power to veto the trade because you think it's poorly mismatched or unbalanced but instead you approve the trade and then publicly state how it's not necessarily video where the but it's really really really really bad. Isn't that entire scenario sort of contradictory? I mean if you feel like a trade is that bad don't you have the responsibility to veto it? I'm not saying that people should have saved me from myself so to speak and vetoed this trade I'm saying that in general if you feel a trade is so bad did it should be considered to be rejected but then you approve it I mean you see where I'm going with this right?

If you are coming after me you should just stop now. I approved so you could learn from it. But I can still have my opinion on it. 

[VigilantZombie]

3 minutes ago, Counselor said:

If you are coming after me you should just stop now. I approved so you could learn from it. But I can still have my opinion on it. 

I'm not coming after anybody. I am genuinely not targeting a single person I am trying to understand some of the statements that were made. And for the record TJ Watt for Pat Mahomes was never a good trade

Edited February 24, 2019 by wwhickok

[Ragnarok]

3 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Can I pay the question and I'm new here so I'm not trying to question the Integrity of this league I have a feeling I'm going to have a lot of fun here and it looks like you guys put in a ton of work and do a really good job but I need to pose a question.

Hypothetically speaking a trade is posted that you think is really really bad and you have the power to veto the trade because you think it's poorly mismatched or unbalanced but instead you approve the trade and then publicly state how it's not necessarily video where the but it's really really really really bad. Isn't that entire scenario sort of contradictory? I mean if you feel like a trade is that bad don't you have the responsibility to veto it? I'm not saying that people should have saved me from myself so to speak and vetoed this trade I'm saying that in general if you feel a trade is so bad did it should be considered to be rejected but then you approve it I mean you see where I'm going with this right?

No.  The power to veto is solely for trades that would be detrimental to the competitive balance of the league.  It is not meant to protect people from not doing their homework or from getting cold feet mid-trade.

Individuals can have their own opinions on the balance of the trade, but can't actually veto unless it is detrimental.  What you will see is people abstain from voting at all as effectively a veto move as you can't actually veto unless the competitive balance threshold is met.  

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, Ragnarok said:

No.  The power to veto is solely for trades that would be detrimental to the competitive balance of the league.  It is not meant to protect people from not doing their homework or from getting cold feet mid-trade.

Individuals can have their own opinions on the balance of the trade, but can't actually veto unless it is detrimental.  What you will see is people abstain from voting at all as effectively a veto move as you can't actually veto unless the competitive balance threshold is met.  

Okay that's sort of what I was asking that answers my question.

[Ragnarok]

Just now, wwhickok said:

I'm not coming after anybody. I am genuinely not targeting a single person I am trying to understand some of the statements that were made. And for the record TJ Watt for Pat Mahomes was never a good trade

It was not a perfectly balanced trade.  However, at the time, and even now, it would not be detrimental to the competitive balance of the league.  That trade took place in week two or three, and Watt for a QB that had been great for only few weeks is not totally crazy.    

[Ragnarok]

4 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Okay that's sort of what I was asking that answers my question.

And I will say this.  Regardless of where the suggestion of cancelling the trade came from, you chose to act on it.  It was your decision.  Bottom line.