Danger Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 What I find amusing is Browns fans who are saying "include our subsequent trades but not the Eagles' trades so that it looks better for us." Can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just now, Danger said: What I find amusing is Browns fans who are saying "include our subsequent trades but not the Eagles' trades so that it looks better for us." Can't have it both ways. i dont care if you do include the eagles trade, it still looks pretty lopsided for the browns if kizer is close to as good as Wentz's 1 avg season and 1 good game performance so far. And if wentz ends up sucking it wont really matter, the browns dominate the trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just look at Carson with Lane Johnson in front of him vs Carson without Lane Johnson playing. It's pretty apparent the difference that's there. I'd say he's quite a bit better than Kizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just now, Danger said: Just look at Carson with Lane Johnson in front of him vs Carson without Lane Johnson playing. It's pretty apparent the difference that's there. I'd say he's quite a bit better than Kizer. why? other than its easy to **** on the browns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just now, mistakey said: why? other than its easy to **** on the browns? For one he never impressed me in College. Two, Notre Dame Quarterbacks haven't had success in god knows how long. I have no reason to believe Kizer will fair any better playing QB for the Browns than the last 30 people they've had at the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Danger said: For one he never impressed me in College. Two, Notre Dame Quarterbacks haven't had success in god knows how long. I have no reason to believe Kizer will fair any better playing QB for the Browns than the last 30 people they've had at the position. First argument: a literal opinion backed up by no facts second argument: Cal QBs sucked before Aaron Rodgers. lazy argument third argument: deshone kizer is not the previous 30 qbs. lazy argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Danger said: For one he never impressed me in College. Two, Notre Dame Quarterbacks haven't had success in god knows how long. I have no reason to believe Kizer will fair any better playing QB for the Browns than the last 30 people they've had at the position. Regarding "Two": Without looking, can you name another North Dakota St. QB to ever take a single snap in the NFL? If not, you may want to consider whether past QB success from a college is really a great indication of a different player's NFL career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Regarding the thread topic, I go with the haul over Wentz. I don't foresee Wentz being a top 10 QB at any point in the near future with Newton, Wilson, Luck, Carr, Winston, and Mariota for sure ahead of him (that's 6 among young QBs as of now), and then uncertainties in Prescott, Goff, Trubisky, Watson, Kizer, and Mahomes to go along with Wentz among first or second year QBs, and then on top of that - even more uncertainty in Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Jackson, and others coming out of college in the near future. This isn't to even begin to contemplate where Cousins, Garoppolo, or Bridgewater might rank in the near future. And that's not even touching the elite QBs ahead of all of these players that are still playing as well. If Wentz isn't a sure-fire top 10 guy (and to me, he's not), I see no point in giving up that much for the chance with just as many talented QBs coming along the way. If the best QBs go #1 and #2 overall, and the worst teams are the teams without a QB, then eventually, you'll luck into your QB without sacrificing needed depth and potentially gifted starters on your team. I'll take a chance that what Cleveland has done with these picks will net them more than what the Eagles get in Wentz just by sheer odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I watched every Wentz throw from last year and this narritive that he had a terrible season after a hot start is a myth. He absolutely had some issues with high balls (still does) but he also made a lot of brilliant throws. His WR group was a monumental let down last season and their running game was less than mediorce. Besides Sproles, there was nothing on that team last year. It was an encoraging rookie year under the circumstances. The Browns evaluators are sputtering imo. They wanted Jacoby Brissett and missed. Took Kessler and now the coach wants him inactive. Wanted Trubisky but couldn't move up. Wanted Mahomes but undervalued him. So they settled on Kizer. And it may actually work out. But not exactly on purpose fwiw. As for the rest...I think they've hit on safeties Kindred and Peppers. Shon Coleman isn't that good but he may stay for a while. Corey Coleman looks like a reach as the 1st WR taken. Ricardo Louis is a jag. The overall trade eval and likely the Browns FO future employment pretty much rests on what Kizer becomes. Although next season will be tricky because I think they'll be in contention for the #1 overall again and there's a QB likely to come out with the same surname as Hue that I'm sure he creams over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 39 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said: Regarding "Two": Without looking, can you name another North Dakota St. QB to ever take a single snap in the NFL? If not, you may want to consider whether past QB success from a college is really a great indication of a different player's NFL career. This is incredibly poor logic to base off of. One is a program that's been around and you have a track record of failure to go off of. Another is something without previous indication of success or failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohnson2009 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Danger said: What I find amusing is Browns fans who are saying "include our subsequent trades but not the Eagles' trades so that it looks better for us." Can't have it both ways. Yes you can. My head is hitting the desk. The trades is being evaluated on what assets were exchanged and what players those assets became. The browns acquired picks for Wentz which they converted directly to additional picks and players etc. The assets the eagles acquired were just the two picks, Wentz and whatever they did with that 4th. Any subsequent trades included on the browns side were made with only picks acquired from the Wentz trade. Had the Eagles used some asset acquired from Cleveland for Barnett you could include it. They did not. They traded a top 20 QB they already had for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I'll take the haul, especially for a team who has holes all over the place. Build team first, get qb second. Unless it's a can't miss qb prospect like luck, manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey5djh Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 On 9/10/2017 at 8:40 PM, mistakey said: The haul looked good today. Coleman had 50 yards, some pass interference yards and a clutch touchdown. Derrick kindred and jabrill peppers were really good, kindred saving 6 points with a clutch interception. De shone kizer had a good debut and looks like the part of an NFL QB but missed a wide open Louis who also had a really clutch big play to set up the touchdown. Ill take the haul today Eagles 1-0 Browns 0-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, Hockey5djh said: Eagles 1-0 Browns 0-1 How did that work out last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakRaiders3828 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, Hockey5djh said: Eagles 1-0 Browns 0-1 And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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