Baltimore Ravens 2019 Draft Thread

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

Pays off too..

 

Speaking of WRs I wonder why none of us seemed to be in on AJ Brown. Looking at him in the NFL and boy he’s the perfect kind of receiver for the Ravens; can operate in and out of the slot. He’s physical and can get open vs man coverage with quickness and strength. He can exploit the holes in a zone defense.

Not that I have buyers remorse with Hollywood, but I can’t help but feel Lamar would’ve paired better with the other Brown considering he’s a beast with in cutting routes, yet still has an ability to win vertically.

[DreamKid]

2 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Speaking of WRs I wonder why none of us seemed to be in on AJ Brown. Looking at him in the NFL and boy he’s the perfect kind of receiver for the Ravens; can operate in and out of the slot. He’s physical and can get open vs man coverage with quickness and strength. He can exploit the holes in a zone defense.

Not that I have buyers remorse with Hollywood, but I can’t help but feel Lamar would’ve paired better with the other Brown considering he’s a beast with in cutting routes, yet still has an ability to win vertically.

There were some fans of his in here, I wasn't really one of them. I still think Marquise is the far superior player and the much better fit for Lamar because of his pure separation ability- which trumps most receivers in the NFL.

Lamar will go for tight window throws in the short to mid range area, but when looking deep he likes separation. Which is why Boykin is kind of pointless in our offense. Miles would've been a better fit for a guy like Flacco, who liked giving guys chances downfield. With Lamar's mobility if he doesn't see it easy deep, he's unlikely to toss it out there. I see AJ being similarly quiet to Boykin in our offense as currently run.

An example of a guy who I think would be really strong with Lamar is Calvin Ridley. 

[diamondbull424]

15 hours ago, DreamKid said:

There were some fans of his in here, I wasn't really one of them. I still think Marquise is the far superior player and the much better fit for Lamar because of his pure separation ability- which trumps most receivers in the NFL.

Lamar will go for tight window throws in the short to mid range area, but when looking deep he likes separation. Which is why Boykin is kind of pointless in our offense. Miles would've been a better fit for a guy like Flacco, who liked giving guys chances downfield. With Lamar's mobility if he doesn't see it easy deep, he's unlikely to toss it out there. I see AJ being similarly quiet to Boykin in our offense as currently run.

An example of a guy who I think would be really strong with Lamar is Calvin Ridley. 

I just feel as though it’s far easier to find quality deep threats in the NFL than to find something akin to AJ Brown. He reminds me of TO with his freakish combination of size and speed and quickness. I think DK Metcalf might have struggled somewhat in our offense, but Brown seems to get open with his quickness and his ability to push off and more importantly he attacks the ball at its highest point.

I don’t agree that Lamar doesn’t like to toss to less separation deep. I think Lamar simply hates picks and does his best to avoid them. So while Boykin may have only supplied him with one to this point, he doesn’t attack the ball in the air like Hollywood. Lamar doesn’t mind tossing the ball intermediately to Mark Andrews because he knows Andrews is going to be aggressive and attack the football. Whereas for instance Hayden Hurst was similarly athletic and had even better hands than Andrews, however Andrews isn’t a natural receiver, he doesn’t attack the ball at its highest point. Hurst wants to catch the ball on the move and really get moving. But when guys don’t attack the football they leave the window open for aggressive defenders in the Jessie Bates, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Kevin Byard type mold to make you pay.

Yet AJ Brown does attack the ball. Also him having more physicality would mean Lamar could take more chances down field and trust Brown to box out defenders. He did it in college with Jaylen Smith who didn’t gain great separation but was reliable in terms of his ability to be physical at the catch point and therefore trusted to either make the big play or to protect Lamar in the even the ball was a little off. He’s also a FANTASTIC blocker, no disrespect to Hollywood but he's not a YAC type nor a blocker.

I can’t talk because it’s not as if I was banging the table for AJ Brown myself though in this thread. I’ll have to look back at my rankings. I know I was stone cold wrong on both JJAW and Harry though.

Edited October 26, 2020 by diamondbull424
Meant to say AJ Brown not AJ Green

[diamondbull424]

Nevermind. I suppose I wasn’t a big fan of Harry.

Quote

Wide Receiver Rankings (4/8/19)

4.25 Stars: Pro Bowl Potential 

JJ Arcega Whiteside- Jordy Nelson

Andy Isabella- Brandin Cooks

4 Stars: Fringe Pro Bowl Potential

Terry McLaurin- Joey Galloway

David Sills- Michael Thomas

Marquis Brown- DeSean Jackson

AJ Brown- David Boston

3.75 Stars: Fringe Pro Bowl/Bust Potential

DK Metcalf- Andre Johnson-lite 

3.5 Stars: Impact Starter

Stanley Morgan- Juju Smith-Schuster

Emanuel Hall- Stefon Diggs

Terry Godwin- Doug Bouldwin

3 Stars: Quality Starter

Deebo Samuel- Nelson Aghalor

N’Keal Harry- Hakeem Nicks

Kelvin Harmon- Mohamed Sanu

Riley Ridley- Steve Smith (Giants)

2.5 Stars: Quality Starter/Bust

Paris Campbell- Ted Ginn Jr.

Miles Boykin- Marvin Jones Jr.

Mecole Hardman- Marquise Goodwin

2.25 Stars: Fringe Starter/Solid Depth

Hakeem Butler- Ramses Barden

DeMarcus Lodge- Rashad Higgins

Gary Jennings- Chris Conley

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by diamondbull424

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

An example of a guy who I think would be really strong with Lamar is Calvin Ridley. 

On this note, it does suck that almost every option outside of Hurst would’ve presented far better value there. Ridley I had my concerns about but even then he would’ve presented a far superior pick at 25.

But I do agree that Ridley would work well with Lamar as well. Just saying it’s kind of hard to screw up what AJ Brown does. On the Ridley front, DeVonta Smith gives me Ridley vibes.

[DreamKid]

4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

ust saying it’s kind of hard to screw up what AJ Brown does.

True. It's kind of hard to screw up what Hollywood, Mark Andrews, and Lamar do as well. Yet we're finding a way. Honestly, we're probably not being hard enough on Roman at this point in time. If we don't begin to see a drastically different offense...it's time for him to go.

I just can't buy into the idea that there's only a handful of coaches in existence that can put together a season's worth of successful modern passing concepts. Reid, Shanahan, etc.  

[diamondbull424]

15 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

True. It's kind of hard to screw up what Hollywood, Mark Andrews, and Lamar do as well. Yet we're finding a way. Honestly, we're probably not being hard enough on Roman at this point in time. If we don't begin to see a drastically different offense...it's time for him to go.

I just can't buy into the idea that there's only a handful of coaches in existence that can put together a season's worth of successful modern passing concepts. Reid, Shanahan, etc.  

Oh. I’m absolutely done with a Roman at this point. Hoping desperately that as many coaching vacancies open as it seems like and he goes somewhere else.

I’m fine with Wink, you could do much worse. But with Roman, I think our run game might take a step back but Lamar’s involvement will help to insulate any regression on that front that should be offset by improved pass game concepts... hopefully. I feel as though I’d trust Urban with the OC job but I’m sure Harbaugh would give it to David Culley and we’ll lose Urban with Roman and we’ll experience the same pathetic passing game that we’ve got now.

Hopefully the pass game only looks so uninspired because we don’t have enough passing concepts within our main playbook (as it’s filled to the brim with running plays) and/or that Roman has creative play designs recommended from Culley, but he just purposefully doesn’t call them.  Because the alternative is that Culley is as inept as Roman with regard to building a strong passing attack. Which considering he’s probably our next OC I have to hope desperately that Culley isn’t also responsible for the ineptitudes of the passing attack.

[DreamKid]

4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Because the alternative is that Culley is as inept as Roman with regard to building a strong passing attack. Which considering he’s probably our next OC I have to hope desperately that Culley isn’t also responsible for the ineptitudes of the passing attack.

It's hard to know how much influence Culley has. We can only really guess.

 

This is what sucks about having a CEO coach like Harbaugh. Even if we were to find some genius/impact OC, he'd be gone the next season to a HC hire. There's no ability to lock them down for continuity's sake. And Harbaugh has a terrible record when it comes to bringing in offensive minds anyway, I mean some of his hires have been termination worthy decisions. 

Here we've found and developed Lamar to the point where he can have a record breaking season, and it feels like we're already starting to waste potential impact. Somethings got to give. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I am a firm believer that since Dave Culley oversees both units that suck the most on this team (WR's and passing concepts) that he's not a good coach. Greg Roman has his flaws, but at least he is elite at developing a dominant running game - he just sucks at playing from behind.

Dave Culley can't develop any of our WR's and he can't even script up a competent passing game with some of the best weapons this franchise has ever seen - to the point where we have JK Dobbins, Hollywood and Mark Andrews to go with Lamar and we're like "wow, we REALLY need a #1 WR because we can't pass the ball at all."

[DreamKid]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I am a firm believer that since Dave Culley oversees both units that suck the most on this team (WR's and passing concepts) that he's not a good coach. Greg Roman has his flaws, but at least he is elite at developing a dominant running game - he just sucks at playing from behind.

Dave Culley can't develop any of our WR's and he can't even script up a competent passing game with some of the best weapons this franchise has ever seen - to the point where we have JK Dobbins, Hollywood and Mark Andrews to go with Lamar and we're like "wow, we REALLY need a #1 WR because we can't pass the ball at all."

FWIW The running game collapsed under Roman in 2018 until Lamar became the starter. A lot of people seem to forget that. His heights in terms of developing and sustaining a rushing attack are pretty remarkable, but there are definitely valleys to his peaks that have cost us.

I think Culley is getting more out of our guys than Engram did/would have- but what is that really saying? Honestly, we don't have enough to go on to really pass judgement on him in that regard. He's been with our guys for about a year and a half. I doubt guys like Boykin would be magically better with another coach. He also seemed to have a strong effect on a guy like Jaleel Scott for example, who went from being essentially unplayable during the 2018 preseason to near perfect during the 2019 preseason. Once again though, is that just a young player shaking off the Rookie nerves or the influence of a new coach...who knows?

For me, it all comes back to play calling/design. We aren't putting anyone in a position to succeed this season, Lamar or our pass catchers. We're sitting on atom bombs and not actually using them. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

FWIW The running game collapsed under Roman in 2018 until Lamar became the starter. A lot of people seem to forget that. His heights in terms of developing and sustaining a rushing attack are pretty remarkable, but there are definitely valleys to his peaks that have cost us.

I think Culley is getting more out of our guys than Engram did/would have- but what is that really saying? Honestly, we don't have enough to go on to really pass judgement on him in that regard. He's been with our guys for about a year and a half. I doubt guys like Boykin would be magically better with another coach. He also seemed to have a strong effect on a guy like Jaleel Scott for example, who went from being essentially unplayable during the 2018 preseason to near perfect during the 2019 preseason. Once again though, is that just a young player shaking off the Rookie nerves or the influence of a new coach...who knows?

For me, it all comes back to play calling/design. We aren't putting anyone in a position to succeed this season, Lamar or our pass catchers. We're sitting on atom bombs and not actually using them. 

Engram was terrible too no doubt, but he's at least seemed to coach the TE's well. Culley on the other hand has not only not developed any of our WR's, he's also done just about nothing in terms of passing concepts for our team, too.

[Danand]

5 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Speaking of WRs I wonder why none of us seemed to be in on AJ Brown. Looking at him in the NFL and boy he’s the perfect kind of receiver for the Ravens; can operate in and out of the slot. He’s physical and can get open vs man coverage with quickness and strength. He can exploit the holes in a zone defense.

Not that I have buyers remorse with Hollywood, but I can’t help but feel Lamar would’ve paired better with the other Brown considering he’s a beast with in cutting routes, yet still has an ability to win vertically.

I have a feeling a lot of us got caught on keying in on the guy we wanted (Brown/McLaurin types) and the guy we didn't want in N'keal Harry.

My guess is a guy like Brown didn't really stand out to me as a special project, but not a player I would be unhappy with in the right spot.

Again, I was concerned Metcalf would be Breshad Perriman all over again. I don't know if he would work as well with Lamar as he does with Wilson, but should I pick between him and the Browns' for our offense, I would still prefer either A.J. or Marquise.

[DreamKid]

1 minute ago, Danand said:

and the guy we didn't want in N'keal Harry.

God, did we call that one. He was up there with Elam in terms of guys I desperately didn't want us to pick. Knew he'd be a disaster, despite the analytics being strong across the board for him. Trash separation, awful technique, overrated YAC ability, and his hands weren't nearly good enough to survive on 50/50 balls.

[Danand]

2 hours ago, DreamKid said:

God, did we call that one. He was up there with Elam in terms of guys I desperately didn't want us to pick. Knew he'd be a disaster, despite the analytics being strong across the board for him. Trash separation, awful technique, overrated YAC ability, and his hands weren't nearly good enough to survive on 50/50 balls.

I mostly remember us being afraid that we wouldn't be a team that would take a Marquise Brown type of talent due to our history, and we would prefer the "Boldin" type of receiver which would be Harry. And some of us being really intrigued by McLaurin. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

6 hours ago, Danand said:

Again, I was concerned Metcalf would be Breshad Perriman all over again. I don't know if he would work as well with Lamar as he does with Wilson, but should I pick between him and the Browns' for our offense, I would still prefer either A.J. or Marquise.

And for the most part, he actually is Breshad Perriman - or at least what we expected him to be, except he's just bigger, faster, and stronger than everyone. He also doesn't get injured and plays super physical and has good hands. He is what people projected Perriman to be.

Edited October 26, 2020 by AFlaccoSeagulls