Golfman Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Kyler Fackrell had 10 sacks last year, but he only had something like 14 QB pressures in total. The likelihood of him converting on that percentage again is next to nothing. If the coaches don't see him winning a lot more than 14 times in rush situations, it's hard to imagine the roll many think he will have in 2019. I'm not advocating for or against Adams either. I think Lancaster could take some of Kenny Clark's snaps on run downs so he can be more involved in pass rush situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 hour ago, boratt said: On first down (not pressure or 3rd down) (Gary or Z)/Martinez/Preston Lowry/Clark/Adams They are going to have all sorts of packages, same way you saw BJ Raji drop into coverage once in a while. But the point is, one more thing they’re going to be able to do now that they have two 5ts with conditioning and enough speed is they can move Gary or Z inside sometimes as a surprise. And the ground on the edge will not be a free target because the two 5ts can run. It’s one more thing Pettine can do because of the versatility up front. This isn’t an essay describing the one and only type of play pettine will run. This is one passing thought describing one more option he has, especially when there is a slug of an OG that Pettine thinks he can bully with Z or Gary. This is one option in some matchups added the arsenal. And I EXPECT to see it. Just to clarify, on 1st down in this hypothetical package, you're going to ask Adams to stay outside the TE and contain the edge and ask Z to stack a double team? Why would we even conclude that Adams is better holding the edge than Daniels? As far as being able to communicate concepts, there's a fairly universal set of terminology. Z lined up at 3, Adams lined up at 7. It's very useful for discussing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 32 minutes ago, Golfman said: Kyler Fackrell had 10 sacks last year, but he only had something like 14 QB pressures in total. The likelihood of him converting on that percentage again is next to nothing. If the coaches don't see him winning a lot more than 14 times in rush situations, it's hard to imagine the roll many think he will have in 2019. I'm not advocating for or against Adams either. I think Lancaster could take some of Kenny Clark's snaps on run downs so he can be more involved in pass rush situations. Is there anybody here saying Fackrell is anything more than the 4th edge guy? If anything his role might be underrated with people just assuming he's going to lose out to the rookie immediately. Clark and Lancaster will both be in the game on run downs, if such a thing even exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodjahs12 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 If Kadar and Tony Brown are as good as advertised, where does that leave Josh Jackson? Honestly I can see a scenario where he ends up being the #5 corner if he doesn’t show massive improvement in man early on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 32 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Is there anybody here saying Fackrell is anything more than the 4th edge guy? If anything his role might be underrated with people just assuming he's going to lose out to the rookie immediately. Clark and Lancaster will both be in the game on run downs, if such a thing even exists. First of all, I don't believe I argued against him being the 4th EDGE guy. NO, just went back and re-read what I posted and nowhere did I mention his rank in the position group. You, however drew up a nickle pressure package that included him and not Kenny Clark on the previous page. Granted, it included 4 EDGE guys in your package, technically. My point was, not sure Fackrell will get more reps in those situations than a guy like Clark. Adams is a complete unknown and I wouldn't be tossing his name around either. It's not like Fackrell is the second coming, and a new regime, his playing time could go either way. As for him losing out to Gary immediately, not sure that is a rational comparison. Most think Gary will be sliding inside a lot so hard to compare him to Fackrell. I think Fackrell could be sliding to inside linebacker in some situations and either dropping into coverage or rushing from there in a delayed fashion or running a two man game with one of the interior guys. The guy is athletic enough to be used that way. Similar to the way the Patriots use and blitz Hightower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratt Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 39 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Just to clarify, on 1st down in this hypothetical package, you're going to ask Adams to stay outside the TE and contain the edge and ask Z to stack a double team? Why would we even conclude that Adams is better holding the edge than Daniels? As far as being able to communicate concepts, there's a fairly universal set of terminology. Z lined up at 3, Adams lined up at 7. It's very useful for discussing things. It’s more of a surprise alignment. You line up on first down with guys in their traditional alignment and assignment. Then presnap, switch spots so they don’t have time to audible. It’s just an option when you have a 4.8 40 guy who’s 300 pounds and a 4.5 40 guy who’s 280 pounds. It’s a way to sneak in a scary matchup inside and they don’t have time to plan for it. So in this case, as part of sneaking in that Z or Gary vs slug OG at last second, yes, Adams would have the unusual responsibility of covering the edge and his speed makes it possible even though you wouldn’t want to line up that way and let them plan for it. Its one option of ways to catch an offense off guard and get a favorable matchup. There are a whole bunch of others as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, boratt said: On first down (not pressure or 3rd down) (Gary or Z)/Martinez/Preston Lowry/Clark/Adams They are going to have all sorts of packages, same way you saw BJ Raji drop into coverage once in a while. But the point is, one more thing they’re going to be able to do now that they have two 5ts with conditioning and enough speed is they can move Gary or Z inside sometimes as a surprise. And the ground on the edge will not be a free target because the two 5ts can run. It’s one more thing Pettine can do because of the versatility up front. This isn’t an essay describing the one and only type of play pettine will run. This is one passing thought describing one more option he has, especially when there is a slug of an OG that Pettine thinks he can bully with Z or Gary. This is one option in some matchups added the arsenal. And I EXPECT to see it. I'm not sure why you subscribe to the idea that Pettine would rather surprise people than play sound defense? The only reason it's a "surprise" is because he's moving guys into roles they are less of a fit for. It makes no sense, and it's not going to happen. In non pressure package situations, Z, Preston, Gary and Fackrell are going to player EDGE. What good does playing them inside do? I'm completely failing to see a point. Z inside is probably not awful, Adams on the EDGE is. Any good OC is going to exploit that. You're going to see way more Lancaster than you are Adams in non pressure package. He's leaps and bounds ahead of Mon as far as two gapping. A surprise in a Pettine defense is showing a double A gap blitz from two ILB, backing both out into the flats in zone coverage and bringing a slot CB unaccounted for on a blitz. Pettine's surprises are blitz package related, not plugging guys in bad roles for them to be surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratt Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Because the offense would be in a protection thinking they’re ready to block Adams with one guy inside, maybe it’s a 5 or 7 step drop and then all of a sudden Z is there and their protection wouldn’t be ready for it. its the same reason they would drop Raji into coverage rather than play sound defense. It was a surprise and it caused havoc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratt Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Even the most simple, sound defenses like Seattle a few years ago mixed up their plays once in a while to cause some chaos. There isn’t one NFL team that just plays the same couple defenses over and over. They all scheme some unexpected looks and presnap confusion. This is the NFL not pop Warner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratt Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Montravius Adams has movement skills like a 4-3 DE who can set and edge and cover ground with the size and anchor or a 3t. That’s versatility. That opens up some of the unscouted or uncommon looks to be more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 I get it now. We cut Daniels so we can run the 'SURPRISE!!' defense. I take back everything I said and apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted August 4, 2019 Author Share Posted August 4, 2019 Oh no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 16 hours ago, boratt said: he saw a play where montravius ran down a play and covered a lot of ground and he hasn’t seen that from him in the past. That’s what he wants to see. are you sure he isn't saying he wants to see that level of fitness and effort from adams, not that he needs him to be running a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 9 hours ago, incognito_man said: It's the match-up I'm talking about: How many snaps this season would Adams have a bigger lean over the guy in front of him than Fackrell would over the guy in front of HIM? 0? What about adams makes you think he's a pass rusher at all? I think adams is going to play because he might be good at execution and freeing guys up on twists etc. You usually want a bigger guy paired with a smaller guy in that situation. Adams is going to play in lieu of Clark before he plays in front of Z, Preston, Fackrell, et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, boratt said: Montravius Adams has movement skills like a 4-3 DE who can set and edge and cover ground with the size and anchor or a 3t. That’s versatility. That opens up some of the unscouted or uncommon looks to be more effective. Adams is not even close to an edge rusher. Stow the homer nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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