Will Eli Manning retire with a losing record as the starter?

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, FilmJunkie said:

but lets be honest folks Eli was passed his prime years ago. It's time to cut bait and move on

He did have the lowest INT rate and highest completion percentage of his career last year and his 92.4 passer rating was only 1.2 from his career best. His last 5 years may be his best 5 year stretch of his career. Problem is it's just league average or slightly below just like the rest of his regular season career.

[Soko]

He probably will. 

I think people are underrating Eli - he was largely a top 10ish QB for a large portion of his career, even approaching top 5-7 at some points. He definitely wasn’t career-mediocre. Also shouldn’t be a HOFer IMO, but I’ve resigned that debate and just accepted that it’ll likely happen at some point. 

But yeah, he’s going to retire in the red in all likelihood.

[Thomas5737]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

He probably will. 

I think people are underrating Eli - he was largely a top 10ish QB for a large portion of his career, even approaching top 5-7 at some points. He definitely wasn’t career-mediocre. Also shouldn’t be a HOFer IMO, but I’ve resigned that debate and just accepted that it’ll likely happen at some point. 

But yeah, he’s going to retire in the red in all likelihood.

2009, 2011and 2015 he was probably better than league average statistically but I'd say that is it. Not a bad player and championships made his career an overall success for him, the Giants and his fans but he wasn't a top 10 QB more years than he was and I don't recall him ever approaching top 5 besides in future projecting. He never even had a passer rating as high as the rookie who lost OROY to his teammate last year.

[Soko]

17 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

2009, 2011and 2015 he was probably better than league average statistically but I'd say that is it. Not a bad player and championships made his career an overall success for him, the Giants and his fans but he wasn't a top 10 QB more years than he was and I don't recall him ever approaching top 5 besides in future projecting. He never even had a passer rating as high as the rookie who lost OROY to his teammate last year.

I think you have a distorted view of history, then. Baker had one of the best rookie seasons of all time in a league during an all-time high in passing categories. Eli is a husk at this point. 

And yup, Eli was pretty lackluster in rating (and completion %) but his TDs and yards have pretty much always, at minimum, been above average and many times in the top 10. Saying he’s largely been average statistically is only true if you’re cherrypicking stats, and even then, your examples don’t hold up. Here are the years that Eli ranked above average in passer rating: 2015, 2009, 2011, 2014, 2012, 2008, and 2010. 

He was never incredibly efficient, but to paint him as mediocre or league-average for his career is just wrong. For the first few and last few, yeah, but that’s not really what ought to define a player IMO.

[Malfatron]

6 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I'll say he'll retire with .500, to go along with generally quite bizarre career overall

just like that other famous HOF New York QB

Joe Namath was 64–64–4

[Bolts223]

I think the problem with Eli being a HOF QB is he'd easily be the worst QB in the hall of fame, and we are really lowering the bar by letting him in.

If Vic Fangio over the next few years is able to assemble an all-time great defense in Denver that leads them to a SB title while Flacco is still the QB, does that make Flacco a HOFer now? His career passer rating is literally identical to Eli's. 

I always see SB rings that should be something that can make a QB a HOFer if they are already on the cusp with their numbers and other accolades. It shouldn't be something that solely puts a QB in the HOF when they otherwise wouldn't even be in the conversation. If Tyree doesn't make that catch and Welker makes his, the thought of Eli being in the Hall of Fame is completely laughable. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Bolts223

[Thomas5737]

26 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Here are the years that Eli ranked above average in passer rating: 2015, 2009, 2011, 2014, 2012, 2008, and 2010. 

So the majority of his seasons he have been below average statistically. If you eliminate his rookie season then it's half over and half under. Or, pretty average.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

So the majority of his seasons he have been below average statistically. If you eliminate his rookie season then it's half over and half under. Or, pretty average.

If you want to cherrypick, sure. 

[Thomas5737]

3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

If you want to cherrypick, sure. 

Use whatever stat as long as it isn't bulk. We can use TD/INT ratio. Completion percentage. YPA. I don't care they should all show the same thing.

[Soko]

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

Use whatever stat as long as it isn't bulk. We can use TD/INT ratio. Completion percentage. YPA. I don't care they should all show the same thing.

Not really. TD%, Y/A, favor Eli. His INT% and completion % were largely average. Still, not sure how that measures out to “only in 09, 11, and 15 was he above average statistically”.

Are stats the only thing that matters? Are they indicative of a QBs placement overall? Serious questions, not rhetorical.

[ninjapirate]

10 hours ago, Elky said:

Eli is currently just two games above .500 as a starting quarterback (116-114). With Daniel Jones breathing down his neck and NYG in rebuilding mode, do you think Eli will end up retiring with losing record as a starter?

eli manning single handedly lost the giants an insurmountable lead in the eagles/giants all time series. One of those worst qbs of all time.

[Thomas5737]

57 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Not really. TD%, Y/A, favor Eli. His INT% and completion % were largely average. Still, not sure how that measures out to “only in 09, 11, and 15 was he above average statistically”.

Are stats the only thing that matters? Are they indicative of a QBs placement overall? Serious questions, not rhetorical.

You can call them stats or production but yeah production certainly matters, especially when comparing peers. All things aren't ever equal but Eli has been pretty consistent throughout his career with a few bad years and a few good but overall he has been consistently average.

I don't think he was ever top 5-7 as you said but I'm sure after each SB win many were saying that, just like those who were asking if Flacco was elite after his win. No, Eli was never top 5 and Flacco wasn't elite. Both were top 10-12 at their best not because of stats specifically just because there were that many QBs better than them and for the last handful of years that number has grown.

[theJ]

19 hours ago, Elky said:

do you think Eli will end up retiring with losing record as a starter?

While everyone else ignores you, i'll answer your question

Yes, i think he ends up with a losing record as a starter.  I'd be surprised if the Giants are particularly good, and this script seems perfectly set up and written for Jones to take over after Eli starts 1-5 or something along those lines.

[tom cody]

I think he will. The Giants roster is terrible, I think he retires after this season with a losing record. Yeah he has 2 Super Bowl wins but he's not a Hall of Famer. Not with a losing record. 

[Soko]

12 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

You can call them stats or production but yeah production certainly matters, especially when comparing peers. All things aren't ever equal but Eli has been pretty consistent throughout his career with a few bad years and a few good but overall he has been consistently average.

So Brady was barely above average last season? Baker was below average? Aaron Rodgers was average? 

Stats don’t mean everything.

12 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I don't think he was ever top 5-7 as you said but I'm sure after each SB win many were saying that, just like those who were asking if Flacco was elite after his win. No, Eli was never top 5 and Flacco wasn't elite. Both were top 10-12 at their best not because of stats specifically just because there were that many QBs better than them and for the last handful of years that number has grown.

Eli was definitely in the 5-7 category in 2011, even before the SB. There were the big four in some order: Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton (didn’t play in 2011 and was coming off a serious neck injury), then there was typically a mix of Rivers, Ben, Eli, with the occasional Romo/Ryan throw in. Eli was at worst 6th or 7th that season.