2020 Draft thread

[PARROTHEAD]

1 Lawrence Taylor level hopeful

vs.

1 Kerrigan level hopeful (AJ or Matos), 1 Trent level hopeful (OT next year) and a Michael Thomas hopeful (WR year after next) along with our natural picks. Which we could trade around and build even more.

Like Ive said. Chase might be a great pick. But we were the 2nd worst team in the league. And Id prefer to build a complete team over selling some jerseys.

We went 16 quarters without a TD. Finished the season against the NFC East by allowing 37 (Eagles) 41 (Giants) and 47 (Cowboys). Packing our entire DB section with guys from practice squads and off the street. Kerrigan is heavily on the slide. No TE or DB in sight. When youre 2nd worst in the league, you arnt 1 player away. And the difference between a Lawrence Taylor level player and Kerrigan level isnt so great that its worth tossing Pro Bowl potential players away.

[ripsean21]

1 minute ago, PARROTHEAD said:

1 Lawrence Taylor level hopeful

vs.

1 Kerrigan level hopeful (AJ or Matos), 1 Trent level hopeful (OT next year) and a Michael Thomas hopeful (WR year after next) along with our natural picks. Which we could trade around and build even more.

Like Ive said. Chase might be a great pick. But we were the 2nd worst team in the league. And Id prefer to build a complete team over selling some jerseys.

We went 16 quarters without a TD. Finished the season against the NFC East by allowing 37 (Eagles) 41 (Giants) and 47 (Cowboys). Packing our entire DB section with guys from practice squads and off the street. Kerrigan is heavily on the slide. No TE or DB in sight. When youre 2nd worst in the league, you arnt 1 player away. And the difference between a Lawrence Taylor level player and Kerrigan level isnt so great that its worth tossing Pro Bowl potential players away.

I think there are many factors into why we are this bad. I think when your HC can’t get a real DC because everyone knows the ship is sinking it doesn’t help. Having a DC that outschemes himself. And we had a seriously crazy amount of key and expensive players that never saw a meaningful snap. We are younger and we can see what this staff gets out of the youth. I expect a really strong defense from DelRio. He is a heck of a DC. But I believe after FA and when we find out the roster before the draft the vision of our draft should be clear. We have to draft a TE. Signing Olsen is just good for the now and to help a rookie. We have picks where value can seriously strike for us

[LoganF89]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

They don't have to trade up to draft Tua. 

I just don't understand this idea at all as to why Detroit would want to trade up, unless they're doing so to get Chase Young.

Even if they are trading Stafford - which their GM has come out and shot down - they don't need to trade up to draft the injured Tua. They can stay put and keep their draft picks.

I think Detroit only trades up if they want Chase Young.

like I said I highly doubt it would happen, and the only reason i could expect the Lions to move up is if the dolphins are trying to move up to #2 for Tua or maybe the raiders or chargers, thats really the only way i could see detroit swapping and adding either a 2nd or a 3rd if they in fact want him. like i said i seriously doubt any of that happens but you never know what will go on in the league.

I want to say a few years back we moved down 1 spot later in the first so houston could get fuller, going into it that was a smart ove by us even though the selection of doctson didnt work out

[Skins212689]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Jon Allen only played 5 games his rookie year bc of a lisfranc injury to his foot and had 1 sack. He’s had 14 sacks his last 31 games played over the last two years.

He’s an interior DLineman who gets double teamed a lot by the center and guard. Most of those players don’t get double digit sacks. You can’t just look at sack numbers and determine if a player is a good DL or not, there is much more to the game then just the sack stat.

Allen has played 36 games and has 15 sacks. That’s about a sack every other game. That’s pretty impressive for an interior DLineman.

Of course defensive lineman doesn’t affect the game as much as a quarterback, they don’t touch the ball most games and certainly don’t have the ball in their hands every play like a QB. There’s no argument that the most important player on the field is a quarterback.

We have a quarterback why do we want Tua and his injured hip? I want nothing to do with him. We don’t know if he’ll ever be even as good as he was in college coming back off his hip injury.

There are 22 guys on a field at one time. Having a great pass rusher is huge on defense - this is not debateable. A big reason the 49ers made the playoffs is because they had Bosa added on their DL this year.

Garapollo is good, but not great, their passing game was trash this year outside of Kittle & when they traded for Emmanuel Samuels and they still got to the super bowl bc they could run the ball, and because of their defensive front 4.

I’m not taking the deal and passing on a prospect who is better then both Bosa brothers. 
 

We don’t know what any of these players in the draft will develop into. Passing on the best prospect in the draft for 3 guys who are good prospects but not great prospects is not working for the Redskins. We keep passing on the best prospects or never have a chance at getting them bc we are picking in the teens and then we wonder why we are mediocre??

Well there’s your answer!

I don't want Tua, Miami would want Tua or whatever team was to trade up! That's how we get 3 1st round draft picks.

Come with a argument against leaving the draft with Deshawn Watson, Jonathan Allen, and TJ Watt oppose to just getting Chase Young. 

I already said hopefully Allen improves under Rivera with Young. I have my #Facts to the point I'm making. Joey Bosa team didn't Win the SuperBowl. A better All Around Team with a Franchise QB did. 

If you reply please stick to the point of getting 3 All Pros rather than just 1 on a team that has multiple wholes. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Skins212689

[turtle28]

42 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said:

1 Lawrence Taylor level hopeful

vs.

1 Kerrigan level hopeful (AJ or Matos), 1 Trent level hopeful (OT next year) and a Michael Thomas hopeful (WR year after next) along with our natural picks. Which we could trade around and build even more.

Like Ive said. Chase might be a great pick. But we were the 2nd worst team in the league. And Id prefer to build a complete team over selling some jerseys.

We went 16 quarters without a TD. Finished the season against the NFC East by allowing 37 (Eagles) 41 (Giants) and 47 (Cowboys). Packing our entire DB section with guys from practice squads and off the street. Kerrigan is heavily on the slide. No TE or DB in sight. When youre 2nd worst in the league, you arnt 1 player away. And the difference between a Lawrence Taylor level player and Kerrigan level isnt so great that its worth tossing Pro Bowl potential players away.

You are basically playing fantasy with draft picks, we have no clue what any player will be available a year or two from now for us to take. Most likely you trade down and you still only get 1 or 2 players who turn out to be good starters.

We’ve seen it before where teams trade back, pass on the best player available and then most of the players they pick are good but not great and some of them end up awful.

What you’re presenting is a best case scenario, and one that is very very unlikely to play out.

Give me the biggest game changer in the draft w/ Chase Young. I can sign a FA WR to complement our version of Michael Thomas w/ speed - Terry McLaurin and I’ll draft a LT prospect when Trent retires.

Next year we are very likely to have a top 10 pick again, we can fill a hole there and we can and will fill needs in free agency next month and in April before the draft.

Question, is 16.5 sacks better then 11.5 or 9.5?

Asking for a friend...

If Matos & AJ Epenesa were so good, they’d be talked about as top 5 picks. Matos and Epenesa are being talked about being taken in the teens.

Even if we do trade down - which I don’t think we will & we shouldn’t - we’d almost 100% not be targeting a DE with that pick. We’ll be targeting Okudah, Andrew Thomas, Simmons, Jeudy, Wills, Wirfs, Austin Jackson, Mekhi Beaton or Xavier McKinney.

We’re only talking DE high in this draft bc we have the #2 pick and Chase Young is the best prospect in the draft.

[turtle28]

7 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

I don't want Tua, Miami would want Tua! That's how we get 3 1st round draft picks.

Come with a argument against leaving the draft with Deshawn Watson, Jonathan Allen, and TJ Watt oppose to just getting Chase Young. 

I already said hopefully Allen improves under Rivera with Young. I have my #Facts to the point I'm making. Joey Bosa team didn't Win the SuperBowl. A better All Around Team with a Franchise QB did. 

If you reply please stick to the point of getting 3 All Pros rather than just 1 on a team that has multiple wholes. 

That’s a pipe dream scenario that every pick we would trade Chase Young for nets us another pro bowler. Come on dude! 
 

That’s beyond a rosy picture of a trade down if I’ve ever seen it.

Go revisit the Rams trade down in 2012 and the Browns multiple trade downs of last decade where they ended up essentially passing on Julio Jones in 2011 & Carson Wentz in 2016.

Carson Wentz to Julio Jones would sound pretty damn good if I were a Browns fan for the last 4 years.

Do we have to go over how the Redskins passed on JJ Watt for Kerrigan, Stephon Tuitt or Demarcus Lawrence for Trent Murphy or Tyler Lockett for Matt Jones.

All this decade?

Edited February 13, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, PARROTHEAD said:

1 Lawrence Taylor level hopeful

vs.

1 Kerrigan level hopeful (AJ or Matos), 1 Trent level hopeful (OT next year) and a Michael Thomas hopeful (WR year after next) along with our natural picks. Which we could trade around and build even more.

Like Ive said. Chase might be a great pick. But we were the 2nd worst team in the league. And Id prefer to build a complete team over selling some jerseys.

We went 16 quarters without a TD. Finished the season against the NFC East by allowing 37 (Eagles) 41 (Giants) and 47 (Cowboys). Packing our entire DB section with guys from practice squads and off the street. Kerrigan is heavily on the slide. No TE or DB in sight. When youre 2nd worst in the league, you arnt 1 player away. And the difference between a Lawrence Taylor level player and Kerrigan level isnt so great that its worth tossing Pro Bowl potential players away.

I'd take Lawrence Taylor and Sean Taylor over having Arrington and Chris Samuels. Now I wouldn't take Lawrence and Sean over having Arrington, Samuels, and a Champ Bailey or Darrell Green. 

[turtle28]

54 minutes ago, LoganF89 said:

like I said I highly doubt it would happen, and the only reason i could expect the Lions to move up is if the dolphins are trying to move up to #2 for Tua or maybe the raiders or chargers, thats really the only way i could see detroit swapping and adding either a 2nd or a 3rd if they in fact want him. like i said i seriously doubt any of that happens but you never know what will go on in the league.

I want to say a few years back we moved down 1 spot later in the first so houston could get fuller, going into it that was a smart ove by us even though the selection of doctson didnt work out

Nah, it wasn’t a smart trade down in 2016. Our front office should’ve been smart enough to take Will Fuller or Michael Thomas over Doctson who was athletic but didn’t run pro routes in college.

It’s also not a companion on the prospect we’d be passing up on this year - Chase Young - versus the prospects in the 20s of the NFL draft. I don’t have a big problem trading down the later it gets in the draft bc the prospects are all about the same, but in this case we are talking about trading out of the #2 spot and missing out on the best prospect in the draft.

That’s an entirely different conversation.

[Skins212689]

5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

That’s a pipe dream scenario that every pick we would trade Chase Young for nets us another pro bowler. Come on dude! 
 

That’s beyond a rosy picture of a trade down if I’ve ever seen it.

Go revisit the Rams trade down in 2012 and the Browns multiple trade downs of last decade where they ended up essentially passing on Julio Jones in 2011 & Carson Wentz in 2016.

Carson Wentz to Julio Jones would sound pretty damn good if I were a Browns fan for the last 4 years.

Do we have to go over how the Redskins passed on JJ Watt for Kerrigan, Stephon Tuitt or Demarcus Lawrence for Trent Murphy or Tyler Lockett for Matt Jones.

All this decade?

It's not a pipe dream it's what Miami with 3 1st round picks could actually do. The Players I named all were taken after where Miami is picking this year. What your focusing on is the incorrect way of drafting and mistakes made by a team who hasn't won since God knows when. I'm not them and had I been in charge in 2017 this team more than likely would've walked away with Watson and Allen. 

How can't Miami if they keep all 3 picks not walk away with 3 All Pros or Us if Miami was willing to trade those for pick #2? I'd have faith in Kyle Smith who got us Haskins at 15 and Sweat at 26 last season. 

[Skins212689]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Nah, it wasn’t a smart trade down in 2016. Our front office should’ve been smart enough to take Will Fuller or Michael Thomas over Doctson who was athletic but didn’t run pro routes in college.

It’s also not a companion on the prospect we’d be passing up on this year - Chase Young - versus the prospects in the 20s of the NFL draft. I don’t have a big problem trading down the later it gets in the draft bc the prospects are all about the same, but in this case we are talking about trading out of the #2 spot and missing out on the best prospect in the draft.

That’s an entirely different conversation.

Chase getting 20 sacks and not making the playoffs while the guy we got in the 20s only gets 8-10 but is making the playoffs, I'd take making the playoffs. 

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

It's not a pipe dream it's what Miami with 3 1st round picks could actually do. The Players I named all were taken after where Miami is picking this year. What your focusing on is the incorrect way of drafting and mistakes made by a team who hasn't won since God knows when. I'm not them and had I been in charge in 2017 this team more than likely would've walked away with Watson and Allen. 

How can't Miami if they keep all 3 picks not walk away with 3 All Pros or Us if Miami was willing to trade those for pick #2? I'd have faith in Kyle Smith who got us Haskins at 15 and Sweat at 26 last season. 

We’re not getting those 3 picks in a trade down.

Two, it doesn’t matter if those players were picked where Miami’s picks currently are, my point still stands, it’s beyond a rosy scenario that we’d get 3 pro bowl players by trading down.

You’re selecting 3 players from 3 different drafts and saying here, this is who we’d get.

[Skins212689]

Just now, turtle28 said:

We’re not getting those 3 picks in a trade down.

Two, it doesn’t matter if those players were picked where Miami’s picks currently are, my point still stands, it’s beyond a rosy scenario that we’d get 3 pro bowl players by trading down.

You’re selecting 3 players from 3 different drafts and saying here, this is who we’d get.

Can Miami get 3 Pro Bowl Players keeping all 3 1st round picks? 

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Chase getting 20 sacks and not making the playoffs while the guy we got in the 20s only gets 8-10 but is making the playoffs, I'd take making the playoffs. 

Again, another fictional comment. You don’t know that bc we draft Chase Young that we won’t make the playoffs next year. You don’t know if we pass on chase young that we will make the playoffs.

Did Bosa make the playoffs last year? The 49ers took him #2 overall.

The Cardinals passed on Bosa for a QB and missed the playoffs, is that because they passed on Bosa?

I thought QB was the most important position so bc they took Murray they should’ve been guaranteed to make the playoffs over the 49ers right?

hmm... guess not

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Can Miami get 3 Pro Bowl Players keeping all 3 1st round picks? 

Maybe, but most likely not. It’s very rare that every first round pick turns out to be a pro bowler. Actually, it doesn’t happen, even more so when you get lower and lower in the first.

Our best chance at getting a pro bowl player is taking Chase Young at #2.

Edited February 13, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

14 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Again, another fictional comment. You don’t know that bc we draft Chase Young that we won’t make the playoffs next year. You don’t know if we pass on chase young that we will make the playoffs.

Did Bosa make the playoffs last year? The 49ers took him #2 overall.

The Cardinals passed on Bosa for a QB and missed the playoffs, is that because they passed on Bosa?

I thought QB was the most important position so bc they took Murray they should’ve been guaranteed to make the playoffs over the 49ers right?

hmm... guess not

Dude get over yourself and try to think about what I'm saying before responding. The Cardinals missed the playoffs because they have multiple wholes on their team like Us. Before the 49ers added Bosa they also had like 2-3 other 1st round picks on their roster. Also they added Dee Ford from the Chiefs and Still didn't win the SuperBowl. If your point was true, Bosa and that DLine would've did enough for different results. So I'll pass on just getting Young if Offered 3 1st round picks. Having confidence in myself that I will draft 3 All Pros oppose to just 1. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Skins212689