Trade Demands (Ramsey, etc.) - Who should the Lions trade for?

[Uncle Buck]

5 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

@Uncle Buck Sorry dude, but this is division rival stuff. We all hate the Packers so there's common ground there.

No problem buddy.  I understand.  If the Vikings can't win the division and get into the playoffs, I'd be all for either the Lions or Bears making a deep run to rep the NFC North.

[Karnage84]

25 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

No problem buddy.  I understand.  If the Vikings can't win the division and get into the playoffs, I'd be all for either the Lions or Bears making a deep run to rep the NFC North.

How much of Cousins' struggles are because of the OC or could be managed by the OC? Do you see them being able to overcome the issues he's had as of late and be the QB they expected? Do you see them bringing in a younger guy and giving him competition or maybe even just dropping him altogether?

[Karnage84]

13 hours ago, HashtagFTW said:

Uhh, for one... Keenan Allen does whatever he wants with everybody. Healthy Keenan is a top 3 WR in the NFL. 
 

For two, I would heavily argue he had his way with Slay. He caught 8 passes on 15 targets and was kept out of the end zone. The week before, he caught 8 of 10 for 123 and a score. The week after, he caught 13 of 17 for 183 and two scores. I would consider his battle with Slay a victory for Slay. 

Agreed on both points. Allen made some plays but Slay had the last laugh. Allen is a top level WR when healthy.

[Uncle Buck]

3 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

How much of Cousins' struggles are because of the OC or could be managed by the OC? Do you see them being able to overcome the issues he's had as of late and be the QB they expected? Do you see them bringing in a younger guy and giving him competition or maybe even just dropping him altogether?

I think the OC has been doing a very good job.  I actually think the reports of Cousins' "bad play" are somewhat overblown.  The thing is, we are 4 weeks into the season and in two of those games, we got up early on our opponents and they couldn't stop our run game so we just kept rushing the ball.  For example, in Week 1 against Atlanta, Cousins only had 10 pass attempts.  It was a similar situation when we played the Raiders in Week 3.  We lost on the road to the Packers.  That was a game that you can put on Cousins because we should have (and very likely would have) won that one had Cousins not thrown the horrendous pick in the 4th quarter.  The Bears just crushed us in Chicago.  Cousins looked horrible, but that wasn't much of a surprise considering the defense we were up against.

With all of this in mind, Thielen and Diggs have been grumbling about not getting their touches.  I actually wouldn't be surprised by whatever happens.  I could see things getting back on track and Cousins having a good game against the Giants this week.  The real questions will be answered after that when we have to play Dallas, KC, and you guys in Detroit.  I could also see Cousins melting down this week too, because if we lose this one, the fanbase is going to go crazy and the rest of the season is probably going to get ugly.  With that in mind, what should have been an easy "W" on the schedule has suddenly turned into a "big game" and we all know how Cousins can shrink in those situations.

If the season does go bad, nothing is impossible in our organization, IMO.  I could see the Wilfs cleaning house and firing Spielman and even Mike Zimmer.  If that happens, I would expect the new regime to dump Cousins and take the loss on his salary and we would probably looking at a first round QB in the 2020 draft. 

Personally, I'm starting to think we're looking at finishing somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7, which is probably the worst possible scenario because then we aren't likely in position to get a good QB in next year's draft.  It's still early in the season though.  We do have a good team so they might be able to right the ship.

[Karnage84]

47 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

I think the OC has been doing a very good job.  I actually think the reports of Cousins' "bad play" are somewhat overblown.  The thing is, we are 4 weeks into the season and in two of those games, we got up early on our opponents and they couldn't stop our run game so we just kept rushing the ball.  For example, in Week 1 against Atlanta, Cousins only had 10 pass attempts.  It was a similar situation when we played the Raiders in Week 3.  We lost on the road to the Packers.  That was a game that you can put on Cousins because we should have (and very likely would have) won that one had Cousins not thrown the horrendous pick in the 4th quarter.  The Bears just crushed us in Chicago.  Cousins looked horrible, but that wasn't much of a surprise considering the defense we were up against.

With all of this in mind, Thielen and Diggs have been grumbling about not getting their touches.  I actually wouldn't be surprised by whatever happens.  I could see things getting back on track and Cousins having a good game against the Giants this week.  The real questions will be answered after that when we have to play Dallas, KC, and you guys in Detroit.  I could also see Cousins melting down this week too, because if we lose this one, the fanbase is going to go crazy and the rest of the season is probably going to get ugly.  With that in mind, what should have been an easy "W" on the schedule has suddenly turned into a "big game" and we all know how Cousins can shrink in those situations.

If the season does go bad, nothing is impossible in our organization, IMO.  I could see the Wilfs cleaning house and firing Spielman and even Mike Zimmer.  If that happens, I would expect the new regime to dump Cousins and take the loss on his salary and we would probably looking at a first round QB in the 2020 draft. 

Personally, I'm starting to think we're looking at finishing somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7, which is probably the worst possible scenario because then we aren't likely in position to get a good QB in next year's draft.  It's still early in the season though.  We do have a good team so they might be able to right the ship.

On a scale of 1 - 10, how likely is it that Diggs gets traded during the season in your opinion?

[detroitroar]

I agree about Cousins. That's just the nature of how QBs are evaluated these days.

On the flip side, you've got the liks of Dak, Goff and even Mahomes to an extent that get too much credit. 

[Uncle Buck]

18 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

On a scale of 1 - 10, how likely is it that Diggs gets traded during the season in your opinion?

2

[Karnage84]

What do you guys think about the Lions making a trade for current Arizona Cardinal and ex-Patriot Chandler Jones? The Cardinals are a team in rebuilding mode without a ton of cap space. They're likely already looking towards next season (or will be) and building pieces around Kyler Murray. We saw how productive he was against us up close, even at age 29. His cap hit seems pretty high at $16.5M. Either the Cards would be eating some of that or we'd have to bring him in on a restructured deal. He knows the defense, Patricia knows him and he's a guy that can fit at a few different spots.

[Sllim Pickens]

On 10/3/2019 at 8:41 PM, SimbaWho said:

Allen and Fitzergarld basically did what they wanted on us. An receivers were imo, open, Mahomes just wasnt hitting his guy consistently. Idk. I like the secondary but outside of the KC game we've had issues. ( The Eagles were banged up so I'm not totally counting on that one game. )

I respect that you don't think he'll make us that much better. (I disagree) I think it turns a good secondary into a possible ELITE one. Keenan Allen did what ever he wanted vs Slay, Fitzgerlad had a big game vs us in multiple roles(inside/out). 

I think there's a difference between good, and elite, and Ramsey pushes the Lions into that elite type secondary. (Imo). 

I don't think Ford is very good honestly. Average. Targeted 8 times total this year with like 2 or 3 penalty's cause he's beat. Idk. Better than TD's but doesn't make him good imo. I'd be real nervous to rely on him other than as a in game reserve role. I just think there is a huge drop off from Melvin to Ford.

IF you told me Von Miller was an option... I'd change my song quickly cause I like pass rushers better than players in the secondary. 

The other thing is... You're assuming and continuing to act like we'll be in the same position next year. The NFL is weird, you know this, and teams rise and fall quickly. It'll take the Bears just a decent, DECENT QB to rise to the top of this division next year. Aaron Rodgers needs just a little help at RB to be really good. Minnesota looks to be in self destruction which is awesome but even them, they could turn it around with the right moves/draft next year. I just see the opportunity now and am having a hard time letting it pass by. 

 

FTW cleared up the Slay/Allen stuff.  AZ was coaching IMO.  We let off the gas, went prevent and it prevented us from winning.  Our secondary has been solid.  We make plays.  Our D in general is solid.  Our W/L record right now is fully on the coaches IMO.  Their game management, their play calling, their lack of understanding of clock management.  That won’t be fixed with a great CB.  It can be helped, but Ramsey in man coverage doesn’t stop Mahomes on 4th and 8.  If we make moves, let’s make moves like the Snacks deal or the Rob sims deal a while back.  Mid/late picks for starters.  We don’t need to risk what we are building for 1 player at a position of strength. 

[Lionized]

Chandler Jones for a 5th make it happen Bob

[Just Want A Title]

We aren't close enough to a Super Bowl to consider a short-term rental on a big name.  Chandler Jones still has some gas left in the tank thought.  Do you think we could pry Sam Hubbard from the Bengals?  I liked him coming out of Ohio State and he is performing pretty well.  I think he would be a great addition to our defense and is young enough that his best football is definitely ahead of him.  I would definitely prefer some one a few years younger than Chandler Jones.  Check out Sam Hubbard's stats:

http://www.nfl.com/player/samhubbard/2560745/careerstats

[Just Want A Title]

Leonard Williams might be available but he seems like a slightly less dominant version of Chris Jones. 

[Karnage84]

On ‎04‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 10:59 PM, Sllim Pickens said:

FTW cleared up the Slay/Allen stuff.  AZ was coaching IMO.  We let off the gas, went prevent and it prevented us from winning.  Our secondary has been solid.  We make plays.  Our D in general is solid.  Our W/L record right now is fully on the coaches IMO.  Their game management, their play calling, their lack of understanding of clock management.  That won’t be fixed with a great CB.  It can be helped, but Ramsey in man coverage doesn’t stop Mahomes on 4th and 8.  If we make moves, let’s make moves like the Snacks deal or the Rob sims deal a while back.  Mid/late picks for starters.  We don’t need to risk what we are building for 1 player at a position of strength. 

I haven't re-watched the play but a couple Lions-focused podcasts have discussed it in detail. Christian Jones is the likely culprit for the L on the play. (4th and 8 starts at 0:22)

- At the snap, Jarrad Davis goes with Kelce, Ford is trailing #81. Jones starts to go with Davis/Kelce but then comes back to the left when he sees Williams coming out

- Williams comes out of the backfield, Tavon Wilson is already onto him but Jones is also there - essentially double teaming him. They're in man coverage, so I'm assuming that Williams was Wilson's man. He was initially lined up on the right side and came all the way over.

At 1:53 on the clock you can see Mahomes is already starting to run with a wide open lane while we're double teaming the RB.

The point of all this - I agree with your position. That was more of a mental error than a lack of talent, unless Patricia called a play that didn't account for someone spying the QB. If that's the case, that was 100% a coaching error but that's not how it looked to me on replay.

If we could get Chandler Jones for a 3rd or 4th, I think it would be a Quinn-esque type of move that would help the team without breaking the bank and jeopardizing our future. We'd be getting a guy that knows the scheme from past experience, unlike Ramsey who just fits skills-wise. He's still productive and brings a missing component to the defense.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Karnage84

[Karnage84]

Also not a trade, but I am taking a look towards the 2020 off-season while we're waiting on a MNF matchup in Green Bay.

We do have a need at LB. What are your thoughts on bringing back Kyle Van Noy? He's excelled in the Patriots defensive scheme. We will have a need at LB. He could help be an upgrade over Christian Jones.

[diehardlionfan]

On 2019-10-07 at 9:20 AM, Karnage84 said:

I haven't re-watched the play but a couple Lions-focused podcasts have discussed it in detail. Christian Jones is the likely culprit for the L on the play. (4th and 8 starts at 0:22)

- At the snap, Jarrad Davis goes with Kelce, Ford is trailing #81. Jones starts to go with Davis/Kelce but then comes back to the left when he sees Williams coming out

- Williams comes out of the backfield, Tavon Wilson is already onto him but Jones is also there - essentially double teaming him. They're in man coverage, so I'm assuming that Williams was Wilson's man. He was initially lined up on the right side and came all the way over.

At 1:53 on the clock you can see Mahomes is already starting to run with a wide open lane while we're double teaming the RB.

The point of all this - I agree with your position. That was more of a mental error than a lack of talent, unless Patricia called a play that didn't account for someone spying the QB. If that's the case, that was 100% a coaching error but that's not how it looked to me on replay.

If we could get Chandler Jones for a 3rd or 4th, I think it would be a Quinn-esque type of move that would help the team without breaking the bank and jeopardizing our future. We'd be getting a guy that knows the scheme from past experience, unlike Ramsey who just fits skills-wise. He's still productive and brings a missing component to the defense.

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve felt the linebacking group was a weakness.