Jim Harbaugh's future at Michigan

[naptownskinsfan]

15 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I don't really think the keeping Harbaugh part of this is that tame. For everyone like Demond Howard, there are at least a few people who think Michigan needs to be winning National Titles or in the conversation every year.

A not that hot take: Harbaugh has done a good enough job to be the guy for Michigan, but it's the fanbases' collective delusions about where their program is that is going to get him canned, or is going to push him to find an NFL job.

You see the same thing all the time. Florida State and Jimbo Fischer was the most egregious, but Tennessee and Butch Jones getting them to an 8 win season or two, Bo Pelini winning 8 games a year at Nebraska, you can keep naming guys who are at jobs "trying to restore former glory" where no reasonable expectation is good enough to keep the fans at bay. So then they move on to the next guy, and the programs all go backwards, so that even when the next savior level HC comes around, there's too big a gap from where they are to where the fans won't call for the coaches' head.

It's a tough choice, and even tougher (and a long period of time) for the fans and boosters to come to the realization of a program that has changed, similar to those you mentioned.  There's no easy answer, and the next choice could be better, or they might even be worse.  

[buno67]

15 hours ago, Superduperman said:

Get lost. It's been 4+ seasons. He's never had a really good OL. He's never had a QB or a run game that were above mediocre. He's run off many players that could be helping the team not be awful right now. His defense has been great against unranked teams above all, against good teams they've been ok sometimes and gotten killed other times.

He's 0-7 as an underdog. He's 2-6 (or is it 1-7? Both are terrible, anyway) against the team's rivals. He's 1-10 or something against ranked teams. 

He's a failure. Admit it and deal with it

 Exactly

Zach Smith, a pretty ****ty person, actually has a pretty good podcast and brings a very good perspective to things because of his experience in major college football and being around Urbz. He brings up great points on why Harbs struggles and why he might be a failure at Michigan. 

He hasnt developed an offensive player really

He hasn’t developed any offensive coaches

the dude needs to be what urban did and just embrace the CEO. Urban knew what he struggled with in today game and gladly had his staff take control. It’s why he has developed so many other HCs. 

Thats not Harbs. He doesn’t seek out or can’t land a top flight young offensive coach cause they won’t get the power or responsibility they need to develop. 

Gattis is a bum OC and that’s the kind of coaches he is bring in. Hell we just saw two defensive coaches leave for Ohio State at their first chance and Mattison was suppose to be a Michigan/Harbs man. 

Harbs isn’t doing anything that seems very promising. They just spent 2-3weeks prepping for Wisky because they sure as hell didn’t prep for Army. You spent that much time prepping for Wisky and you get boat raced that bad? C’mon. 

 

[buno67]

23 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

A not that hot take: Harbaugh has done a good enough job to be the guy for Michigan, but it's the fanbases' collective delusions about where their program is that is going to get him canned, or is going to push him to find an NFL job.

This is good if say your a program like Iowa. That’s been Kirk’s bread and butter. That works cause that’s what you get with a bunch of 2/3* recruits. Difference right now is Michigan is loaded with 4/5* recruits. They have won a majority of harb’s games at Michigan based off of talent. His programs falter the last quarter of the season and he can’t outcoach an opposing equally talented team to save his job but yet he still has the job....

Edited September 25, 2019 by buno67

[NateDawg]

Yeah, there’s a difference between being at a blue blood where competing for championships is the expectation and being somewhere that 9-3 is considered a fun season. Fair or unfair and regardless if a prior regime hovered around 8 wins. 

[MSURacerDT55]

He had good assistant coaches while at UM but alienated them all, the shine has definitely worn off

[malibuspeedrace]

13 hours ago, buno67 said:

This is good if say your a program like Iowa. That’s been Kirk’s bread and butter. That works cause that’s what you get with a bunch of 2/3* recruits. Difference right now is Michigan is loaded with 4/5* recruits. They have won a majority of harb’s games at Michigan based off of talent. His programs falter the last quarter of the season and he can’t outcoach an opposing equally talented team to save his job but yet he still has the job....

They aren't "loaded" with 4/5*'s though.... 

Thats half the problem.  They keep bringing on quantity, which gives them a nice recruiting ranking, but the quality is lacking compared to the teams they like to compare themselves to.  They are stocked full of the project recruits.

 

Heck...Against Cheesy, they only played 6 scholarship athletes along the DLine, the whole game.....While a ton of their highly ranked guys proved their project status by not seeing a second of action or at least not racking up a single trackable stat. From 2017, 2018 & so far in 2020...What have Paea, Jeter, Upshaw, Hinton or Mazi Smith provided...The answer will not be what UM fans were hopeful for.

 

 

 

 

 

[buno67]

4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

He had good assistant coaches while at UM but alienated them all, the shine has definitely worn off

Good to decent assistant coaches but they weren’t getting promotions because of their ability. Urbz during his time had three assistants become HCs (Herman, Fickell, Whithers, and Ash). He produced even more HCs at Florida I believe (Mullen, Strong, Addazio, And Holliday). To me that is a great sign of being a great coach. If you develop great coaches, you yourself are a great coach. Saban produces a lot of great coaches. Swinmey is different that the coaches don’t want to leave him program. 

With harbs, it seems like coaches leave to get away from him not because they are getting great offers.

[buno67]

7 minutes ago, malibuspeedrace said:

They aren't "loaded" with 4/5*'s though.... 

Thats half the problem.  They keep bringing on quantity, which gives them a nice recruiting ranking, but the quality is lacking compared to the teams they like to compare themselves to.  They are stocked full of the project recruits.

 

Heck...Against Cheesy, they only played 6 scholarship athletes along the DLine, the whole game.....While a ton of their highly ranked guys proved their project status by not seeing a second of action or at least not racking up a single trackable stat. From 2017, 2018 & so far in 2020...What have Paea, Jeter, Upshaw, Hinton or Mazi Smith provided...The answer will not be what UM fans were hopeful for.

 

 

 

 

 

They are still loaded tho. Those guys have more talent when you face Rutgers and Etc. 

He can beat the teams he out recruits but he can’t out coach a team. 

Literally one of the most talented Michigan team prolly since 2005/2006 team last year and they just got destroyed by tOSU. Had 2-3 weeks to prepare for Wisky and get killed. 

Safe to say at Stanford and 9ers he was carried by his assistants. He just can’t get any assistant worth a dame because his programs is a mess. But don’t worry, they will take an overseas trip. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by buno67

[Ozzy]

On 9/22/2019 at 2:48 PM, JammerHammer21 said:

All large fanbases are irrational, and most people just want something to happen without thinking about what happens next. Fire Harbaugh and...? How many coaches that would be actual candidates are going to stake their claim at a place where you can win about 10 games a year and still have that not matter at all if you can't beat one team? And who is the person that can actually compete with OSU in a less talented region? These are all things people don't give any thought to when they're angry. They just think that firing Harbaugh will fix all issues because they're unhappy with the current state of things. Many people like that also think someone like Lincoln Riley would come here.

Unless the program is in position to completely unravel, firing Harbaugh just to hire someone else who can't actually compete with OSU isn't smart. The next hire has to be good enough to avoid sending Michigan into the purgatory of FSU/USC/etc. territory, but that's already where Harbaugh has Michigan. I really don't see who's out there right now that's actually going to be able to do that, unless it's a complete dice roll on Venables that he can lead a program. Matt Campbell seems like an obvious fit, and would likely recruit well, but is a guy with a few upsets that also can't beat a main rival (which is Iowa) really the guy that's going to get Michigan to another level?

If they get killed by PSU, ND, and OSU, and also drop to teams like MSU or Iowa at home, then yeah, probably have to do something. Not going to sit here and say they're going to salvage the season and make everything alright, but there's enough talent to compete with almost every team if the coaching staff can figure out what in the goddamn hell they're doing (and again, not saying that will happen given what we've actually seen).

 

Matt Campbell is a great coach and would be a good hire but not sure he will leave Iowa State, he seems comfortable there and if he was he would have done it already I think.  Les Miles comes to mind if they want to go with a 'Michigan man'.

 

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/27700410/meyer-michigan-rumors-not-going-happen

Funny this came up, I hope Meyer stays out of it, he already retired/returned once to do it again would be just kind of pathetic I think.  And he seems to be enjoying being on TV compared to the first time he did that.

 

Don Brown would be interesting but might be too old honestly, Dave Aranda would be a nice hire same with Brent Venables but Venables has been at Clemson so long not sure he will leave.  Crazy how Dabo keeps his assistants and Saban loses them constantly over and over again.  Justin Wilcox could be a good hire, he has impressed at Cal I feel despite not having a ton of talent he has developed a nice identity and Brian Kelly I am sure they would love but doubt he leaves Notre Dame with how well he consistently gets OL talent and OL play.  Seriously though is there anyone that thinks Harbaugh should not be fired?  Cannot just keep him because of the lack of options out there, if Michigan cannot get interest from tons of coaches to pick from that would be just sad.  Harbaugh has lost the team and before it was ok because the defense was great, now that Bush, Gary and a ton of defenders have gone to the NFL, clearly Jim Harbaugh and the offense has not done much and in terms of motivation he is lacking big time.  Do not see much energy or coaching out of him honestly, maybe he can turn it around this year but I doubt it.  His press conferences are never inspiring so how can one expect any different on the practice field?

I assume Michigan with a lot of returning talent on the OL would be able to run the ball, they cannot.  I assumed they would have brought a recruit in that can fill the void at RB with Evans gone, they did not.  I would assume the SR QB would play well and get the ball to a number of experienced and talented WRs in a new offense, he has not.  And I would think the Michigan defense would continue to be at least ok, they have not been really.  Honestly they have to fire him, maybe not now but because the recruiting, they cannot wait till the complete end of the season, it has to be before that for recruiting purposes alone.  

A lot will be answered just how they look against Rutgers and Iowa that is for sure.  At the end of the season is where Harbaugh has really disappointed, started with two losses in a row in 2016 to end the year, 3 losses in the row in 2017 and 2 losses in a row in 2018.  They were close losses in 2016 and 2017 but 2018 those were blow outs really and that has carried over to this season it seems.  Lack of energy, motivation and or vision for the program so they should really move on.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Ozzy

[buno67]

26 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Matt Campbell is a great coach and would be a good hire but not sure he will leave Iowa State, he seems comfortable there and if he was he would have done it already I think.  Les Miles comes to mind if they want to go with a 'Michigan man'.

 

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/27700410/meyer-michigan-rumors-not-going-happen

Funny this came up, I hope Meyer stays out of it, he already retired/returned once to do it again would be just kind of pathetic I think.  And he seems to be enjoying being on TV compared to the first time he did that.

 

Don Brown would be interesting but might be too old honestly, Dave Aranda would be a nice hire same with Brent Venables but Venables has been at Clemson so long not sure he will leave.  Crazy how Dabo keeps his assistants and Saban loses them constantly over and over again.  Justin Wilcox could be a good hire, he has impressed at Cal I feel despite not having a ton of talent he has developed a nice identity and Brian Kelly I am sure they would love but doubt he leaves Notre Dame with how well he consistently gets OL talent and OL play.  Seriously though is there anyone that thinks Harbaugh should not be fired?  Cannot just keep him because of the lack of options out there, if Michigan cannot get interest from tons of coaches to pick from that would be just sad.  Harbaugh has lost the team and before it was ok because the defense was great, now that Bush, Gary and a ton of defenders have gone to the NFL, clearly Jim Harbaugh and the offense has not done much and in terms of motivation he is lacking big time.  Do not see much energy or coaching out of him honestly, maybe he can turn it around this year but I doubt it.  His press conferences are never inspiring so how can one expect any different on the practice field?

I assume Michigan with a lot of returning talent on the OL would be able to run the ball, they cannot.  I assumed they would have brought a recruit in that can fill the void at RB with Evans gone, they did not.  I would assume the SR QB would play well and get the ball to a number of experienced and talented WRs in a new offense, he has not.  And I would think the Michigan defense would continue to be at least ok, they have not been really.  Honestly they have to fire him, maybe not now but because the recruiting, they cannot wait till the complete end of the season, it has to be before that for recruiting purposes alone.  

A lot will be answered just how they look against Rutgers and Iowa that is for sure.  At the end of the season is where Harbaugh has really disappointed, started with two losses in a row in 2016 to end the year, 3 losses in the row in 2017 and 2 losses in a row in 2018.  They were close losses in 2016 and 2017 but 2018 those were blow outs really and that has carried over to this season it seems.  Lack of energy, motivation and or vision for the program so they should really move on.

 

 

It’s cause their OL coach is a joke. 

I think the only job Urbz would come out of retirement for would be USC. No competition in the PAC and he would kill the recruiting for that program. 

[NateDawg]

2 hours ago, buno67 said:

It’s cause their OL coach is a joke. 

I think the only job Urbz would come out of retirement for would be USC. No competition in the PAC and he would kill the recruiting for that program. 

FSU would be a better move for Urban than SC. Only one team in that conference to compete against. He’d bring the recruiting back and is familiar with recruiting down there. I also think 2021 is more likely than 2020 if he comes back also. 

[SBLIII]

9 hours ago, NateDawg said:

FSU would be a better move for Urban than SC. Only one team in that conference to compete against. He’d bring the recruiting back and is familiar with recruiting down there. I also think 2021 is more likely than 2020 if he comes back also. 

agreed. 

[MSURacerDT55]

Another tragedy is how Ryan Day, and even Tom Herman in his short time at tOSU has been twice the QB whisperers as Harbaugh

[tom cody]

I think this is his final year at that school. What a disappointment he has been. 

[TOUCAN]

Looking ahead if Harbaugh is gone after the season, Michigan needs to ditch the whole idea of a "Michigan Man" being their HC. It's not a good look and really limits your options. Clemson is rife with great assistants that could be prime coaching candidates.