titans0021 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Derrick Henry had over 1,200 yards after contact this year. I’m fine talking about improved OL play, but there’s tremendous value in a back that is virtually never taken down by arm tackles. in the end though, if your philosophy is that you should never pay backs and pass catchers are just shiny hood ornaments, I’m just not sure you’re ever going to put together a competent offense. Hell, that’s what just killed the Patriots despite them having the best defense in football. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 51 minutes ago, TitanSS said: Guess what? The running success is tied to the OL, and threat of a credible passing attack, not the RB. Hence why Henry took off at the same time as Tannehill. Yeah except Henry took off with Blaine Gabbert and dead arm Marcus last year with a below average o-line. Normally your premise would hold true, but not for Henry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 For the record, I never said we shouldn't or wouldn't pay him. I just think the history of paying RBs is largely undisputable and I would generally never be for it at the amount that Henry is likely to get. I think him being our identity is going to get him paid. How much is a good question because having a 25-30 mil QB and a 15 mil RB is going to really eat into a 200 mil cap when 45 mil is between two players. I just think there are a large amount of people arguing for the history of RBs who got paid as if it was the best decision and I would say it's almost always the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans0021 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, TitanSS said: For the record, I never said we shouldn't or wouldn't pay him. I just think the history of paying RBs is largely undisputable and I would generally never be for it at the amount that Henry is likely to get. I think him being our identity is going to get him paid. How much is a good question because having a 25-30 mil QB and a 15 mil RB is going to really eat into a 200 mil cap when 45 mil is between two players. I just think there are a large amount of people arguing for the history of RBs who got paid as if it was the best decision and I would say it's almost always the opposite. Oh yeah, there’s absolutely an argument for never paying backs. It rarely works. But when you’ve gone as far as we have in making our running back our identity, I’m just not sure you can let him walk. Despite his flaws, he’s still a special talent. Then there’s the business side of it. For a franchise that is still trying to win over the city, letting a fan favorite who just carried you to the franchise’s biggest win in a long time walk sets the organization back. That obviously doesn’t fit into analytics, but it’s also the reality of the situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, TitanSS said: For the record, I never said we shouldn't or wouldn't pay him. I just think the history of paying RBs is largely undisputable and I would generally never be for it at the amount that Henry is likely to get. I think him being our identity is going to get him paid. How much is a good question because having a 25-30 mil QB and a 15 mil RB is going to really eat into a 200 mil cap when 45 mil is between two players. I just think there are a large amount of people arguing for the history of RBs who got paid as if it was the best decision and I would say it's almost always the opposite. The rams paid Gurley got a Super Bowl appearance, he has arthritis from a college injury, the cowboys paid zeke they’ve been in the playoffs I believe 2 years with him & he’s carried & he’s led the league in rushing twice. The year he was suspended they missed the playoffs I believe. The Vikings paid AP back in the day & got a MVP & playoff contention. Again it’s the value to the team. Henry is our offense it starts with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, titans0021 said: Oh yeah, there’s absolutely an argument for never paying backs. It rarely works. But when you’ve gone as far as we have in making our running back our identity, I’m just not sure you can let him walk. Despite his flaws, he’s still a special talent. Then there’s the business side of it. For a franchise that is still trying to win over the city, letting a fan favorite who just carried you to the franchise’s biggest win in a long time walk sets the organization back. That obviously doesn’t fit into analytics, but it’s also the reality of the situation. I think the PR aspect of it will definitely play into it. Short term it is definitely the best option, but when the cap space is tight in a year or so and we still don't have a pass rush and can't afford that elite edge rusher in free agency, is it worth it? We'll find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, TitanRedd said: The rams paid Gurley got a Super Bowl appearance, he has arthritis from a college injury, the cowboys paid zeke they’ve been in the playoffs I believe 2 years with him & he’s carried & he’s led the league in rushing twice. The year he was suspended they missed the playoffs I believe. The Vikings paid AP back in the day & got a MVP & playoff contention. Again it’s the value to the team. Henry is our offense it starts with him. The Rams also have no draft picks for a billion years and no cap room. They're not exactly an example of great front office moves. Also happens they had an amazing OL and a PA game similar to ours last year when Gurley was successful. His backup didn't do bad filling in for him either. OL deteriorated when players left and their running game went to ****. Cant afford Saffold because of what they're paying other guys, like Gurley, and now they can't run block for any of their RBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShupacTakur Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 The Henry situation is tough. On one hand, he’s definitely earned his payday. On the other, paying RBs top dollar doesn’t tend to be a wise investment. I think we will pay him largely for the reasons already mentioned (fan favorite, face of the franchise, special talent, etc,), and if we continue drafting well it could ultimately work out, but only time will tell if it ends up being a good move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesa_Titan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 There is no argument for not keeping him. As much as people cry about fans not showing up, and then you want to let our star RB walk? That's the best way to become the Jags and start tarping off sections of seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, TitanSS said: The Rams also have no draft picks for a billion years and no cap room. They're not exactly an example of great front office moves. Also happens they had an amazing OL and a PA game similar to ours last year when Gurley was successful. His backup didn't do bad filling in for him either. OL deteriorated when players left and their running game went to ****. Cant afford Saffold because of what they're paying other guys, like Gurley, and now they can't run block for any of their RBs. Again you’re comparing situations to ours, I’m giving you ex not trying to compare. Yes the rams don’t have any draft picks because they’re playing to win now, they traded 1st round picks for Jalen Ramsey. They have key pieces they’re building around, Goff, Donald, & 1 time Gurley now it’s Donald Goff & Ramsey. You identify your key cog players & pay the price & build around them period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, TitanRedd said: Again you’re comparing situations to ours, I’m giving you ex not trying to compare. Yes the rams don’t have any draft picks because they’re playing to win now, they traded 1st round picks for Jalen Ramsey. They have key pieces they’re building around, Goff, Donald, & 1 time Gurley now it’s Donald Goff & Ramsey. You identify your key cog players & pay the price & build around them period. Of course I'm comparing them. You just brought them up lol. Their cog players didn't do so hot this year. Should have prioritized their OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Just now, TitanSS said: Of course I'm comparing them. You just brought them up lol. Their cog players didn't do so hot this year. Should have prioritized their OL. They finished 9-7 had a winning season & they didn’t make it because their Offense is built around Gurley, Goffs success plays off of Gurley which is why he’s up & down. If Gurley is healthy & they can run the ball different story. You build around your core players.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 7 hours ago, TitanSS said: I don't think anyone is arguing that at the moment. It's about the ROI on paying a top 5 RB vs a premium position. I hardly ever agree with Redd... And being a finance person, I'm still strongly on the side of not paying a RB top money. But Henry has shown me that he's not just a RB. He is the heart and soul of this team. He's risen to an Eddie level in that regard. You just don't let that walk out of your locker room. What he adds to this team can't be measured on a piece of paper. Again, as a finance/numbers/analytics person... I know that's hard to swallow. What he did yesterday, where and when he did it... Is amazing. And looking back to our last playoff win, all we ever talk about is the Mariota block and pass to himself... But Henry led the way then too with 150+ yards. In those 2 playoff wins, he's averaging just under 200 yards from scrimmage. I know any contract we give him has to have an out after preferably 3 years. Gurley and Zekes contracts were both extensions so it's hard to compare as strictly apples to apples, but both had outs after 2 new years. I'm certain we can work out a contract with an out after 2-3 years, like most standard contracts in the NFL today, including qb contracts. That limits our exposure and potential liability. But we have a SB window open in the next 3 years or so, and Henry looks to be one of the integral pieces to that... Both on and off the field. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSlim Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 You listen to Vrabel talk about Henry (especially recently) and it's clear that he thinks very highly of him as a player and leader on the team. With JRob and Vrabel essentially being joined at the hip, I think Vrabel's opinion will have a major impact in the Henry decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 7 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said: I hardly ever agree with Redd... What more to say 👍🏽🤣.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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