Week 15 - News and Notes. Lets start off with a doozy

[Calvert28]

4 minutes ago, Ace5 said:

As someone who was born 1970-1990, i call bull. Lets take it piece by piece. 

Yes, times have changed. Many of the things i once said and did are no longer acceptable. I realize this and feel penance for it. Growing up and growing old is just that- growing UP not down. Take responsibility. Old dogs can learn new tricks. 

 

Secure enough with ourselves? Quite the fallacy. Ignorant enough to not realize that our words and actions may have unintended consequence is more accurate. Everyone makes mistakes. Youre making excuses. 

A pretty healthy way of telling someone off? You mean as opposed to, Idk, telling someone off directly, as a man? Nah its better that we use derogatory terms for the differently abled and less fortunate. Thats healthy [/sarcasm].

If the shoe fits? Ive worked with plenty of differently abled people who have 10x the heart, empathy and decorum that I do. Its touching. I suggest you try it sometime.

Freedom of speech does not include freedom from consequences from your speech. You can be a bigot or a moron all you want, but you better be wjilling to live with the consequences and judging by your speech youre not willing to do so.

As your big guy says, "love thy neighbor." Not denigrate them and use their circumstances to describe thngs you find unpleasant. 

Language is organic and ever evolving. If eliminating a word is supposed to change the mindset of a person then best of luck to you cause it's never going to change.

[Rtnldave]

18 minutes ago, Ace5 said:

As someone who was born 1970-1990, i call bull. Lets take it piece by piece. 

Yes, times have changed. Many of the things i once said and did are no longer acceptable. I realize this and feel penance for it. Growing up and growing old is just that- growing UP not down. Take responsibility. Old dogs can learn new tricks. 

 

Secure enough with ourselves? Quite the fallacy. Ignorant enough to not realize that our words and actions may have unintended consequence is more accurate. Everyone makes mistakes. Youre making excuses. 

A pretty healthy way of telling someone off? You mean as opposed to, Idk, telling someone off directly, as a man? Nah its better that we use derogatory terms for the differently abled and less fortunate. Thats healthy [/sarcasm].

If the shoe fits? Ive worked with plenty of differently abled people who have 10x the heart, empathy and decorum that I do. Its touching. I suggest you try it sometime.

Freedom of speech does not include freedom from consequences from your speech. You can be a bigot or a moron all you want, but you better be wjilling to live with the consequences and judging by your speech youre not willing to do so.

As your big guy says, "love thy neighbor." Not denigrate them and use their circumstances to describe thngs you find unpleasant. 

Whoa there snowflake, I think you have taken this the wrong way. I was not referring to nor would I ever make fun of a "challenged" person. I am referring to the terminology that I grew up with dealing with individuals who were simply immature and acted like jerks. If we were in the company of someone with a physical or mental disability, we would exercise good judgement and discretion and NOT use terms that could be misconstrued or thought to be directed at them. That would be insensitive.

It seems this is a very sensitive subject for you and my apologies if it set you off. I was merely trying to convey the idea that yes times have changed but it doesn't give the younger generation the right to pass judgement on the generation that came before them. It worked just fine for us. It's not my fault that some people today are hyper sensitive to the point that everything is offensive and they are not comfortable enough in their own skin that they cannot recognize a little sarcasm when they hear it.

Keep in mind, I'm not defending Jenkins, but in the world I work in, education, every single thing a teacher says can be misconstrued, analyzed and twisted into something offensive. All of which is meant to protect the students fragile egos. But the reality is they say far worse to one another and to the teachers and even their parents. But yet we are the perps.

Seems like a very large double standard. But yet it is the world we live in. So when I say it was a healthy way to tell someone off, it was. They got it and they got it with a laugh. You know, like, I like you, you're okay, but you are acting like a jerk. Sounds a bit square. So we did it with slang which every teenager or young adult uses. It's their vernacular, their voice, their interpretation of the terms. People today should take into consideration that the generations before them fought world wars, injustices, and other things that truly threatened our country. Not the use of slang because they don't get the manner in which it was used before them.

Please don't tell me you are offended by the Baby its Cold Outside Song, are you?

 

 

[Ace5]

23 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Language is organic and ever evolving. If eliminating a word is supposed to change the mindset of a person then best of luck to you cause it's never going to change.

Its not about changing a mindset. Mindset is ever growing and evolving. Our kids will ne more advsnced thsn us, and theirs than them. Thats just progress. Rising to meet a new day with a clear eye and a clear heart os different. 

[Ace5]

8 minutes ago, Rtnldave said:

Whoa there snowflake, I think you have taken this the wrong way. I was not referring to nor would I ever make fun of a "challenged" person. I am referring to the terminology that I grew up with dealing with individuals who were simply immature and acted like jerks. If we were in the company of someone with a physical or mental disability, we would exercise good judgement and discretion and NOT use terms that could be misconstrued or thought to be directed at them. That would be insensitive.

It seems this is a very sensitive subject for you and my apologies if it set you off. I was merely trying to convey the idea that yes times have changed but it doesn't give the younger generation the right to pass judgement on the generation that came before them. It worked just fine for us. It's not my fault that some people today are hyper sensitive to the point that everything is offensive and they are not comfortable enough in their own skin that they cannot recognize a little sarcasm when they hear it.

Keep in mind, I'm not defending Jenkins, but in the world I work in, education, every single thing a teacher says can be misconstrued, analyzed and twisted into something offensive. All of which is meant to protect the students fragile egos. But the reality is they say far worse to one another and to the teachers and even their parents. But yet we are the perps.

Seems like a very large double standard. But yet it is the world we live in. So when I say it was a healthy way to tell someone off, it was. They got it and they got it with a laugh. You know, like, I like you, you're okay, but you are acting like a jerk. Sounds a bit square. So we did it with slang which every teenager or young adult uses. It's their vernacular, their voice, their interpretation of the terms. People today should take into consideration that the generations before them fought world wars, injustices, and other things that truly threatened our country. Not the use of slang because they don't get the manner in which it was used before them.

Please don't tell me you are offended by the Baby its Cold Outside Song, are you?

 

 

Again- its not about changing the past its about growing with the future and learning from past mistakes. If you can't see the difference then I fear for the kids you teach. 

[Rtnldave]

20 minutes ago, Ace5 said:

Its not about changing a mindset. Mindset is ever growing and evolving. Our kids will ne more advsnced thsn us, and theirs than them. Thats just progress. Rising to meet a new day with a clear eye and a clear heart os different. 

Okay but you are leaving one very important thing out. Humans are part of the animal kingdom. As such we are many things. Sometimes cruel, sometimes we hate, sometimes we are envious, or angry or just different for no explicable reason. Trying to suppress some of the negative things we are will only serve to let them fester until they are magnified and boil over into a much bigger mess.

I see it every day in the schools I work in. I work in 3 different elementary schools are varying in social status and 1 high school. It really does give a very accurate and unique perspective as to what is becoming of our youth, our future leaders. And IMHO, people who are trying to control their children and not allow them to feel a particular way, even if it is a bad feeling, are only serving to damage them later in life. They are not learning resiliency, they develop zero coping skills, they become introverted and angry and suppress those feelings until they end up doing something terribly foolish.

Now, its not every kid in every school. But with each passing year, I see more and more of it. What was it Mr. Wayne said? Why do we fall? To learn to pick ourselves up.

Letting a kid learn humility or feel shame is not always a bad thing.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Rtnldave

[Rtnldave]

4 minutes ago, Ace5 said:

Again- its not about changing the past its about growing with the future and learning from past mistakes. If you can't see the difference then I fear for the kids you teach. 

You should read my next post, LOL. BTW, many, many of the kids I teach and have taught have gone onto very successful and well adjusted lives. Just 3 days ago I gave an elementary winter recital and met up with students I have taught 4 years ago. Here they are in 8th grade and several of them are already working as musicians and performers. I'm not saying I was directly responsible for that, I just helped them to find their talent, develop their skill and use good judgement to reach their potential. And above all I taught them the most important thing, watch out for the bull****ers and how to spot one, they are angry, insecure and dangerous people. Stay clear of them.

[Ace5]

6 minutes ago, Rtnldave said:

Okay but you are leaving one very important thing out. Humans are part of the animal kingdom. As such we are many things. Sometimes cruel, sometimes we hate, sometimes we are envious, or angry or just different for no explicable reason. Trying to suppress some of the negative things we are will only serve to let them fester until they are magnified and boil over into a much bigger mess.

I see it every day in the schools I work in. I work in 3 different elementary schools are varying in social status and 1 high school. It really does give a very accurate and unique perspective as to what is becoming of our youth, our future leaders. And IMHO, people who are trying to control their children and not allow them to feel a particular way, even if it is a bad feeling, are only serving to damage them later in life. They are not learning resiliency, they develop zero coping skills, they being introverted and angry and suppress those feelings until they end up doing something terribly foolish.

Now, its not every kid in every school. But with each passing year, I see more and more of it. What was it Mr. Wayne said? Why do we fall? To learn to pick ourselves up.

Letting a kid learn humility or feel shame is not always a bad thing.

You and i agree entirely- allowing a child to feel shame and humility is entirely correct and good for them. Ill also agree that we should protect our children from consequence from those mistakes that will happen in the natural course of growing up and learning from those mistakes. We are of a mind there. 

Where i think we differ is that I don't want to extend these same liberties to a 31 year old man because "back in my day it wasn't so bad." Back in my day it wasn't. It's not my day anymore. This guy is supposed to be a role model. Hes not helping.

[Matts4313]

 

 

 

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, Ace5 said:

As someone who was born 1970-1990, i call bull. Lets take it piece by piece. 

Yes, times have changed. Many of the things i once said and did are no longer acceptable. I realize this and feel penance for it. Growing up and growing old is just that- growing UP not down. Take responsibility. Old dogs can learn new tricks. 

 

Secure enough with ourselves? Quite the fallacy. Ignorant enough to not realize that our words and actions may have unintended consequence is more accurate. Everyone makes mistakes. Youre making excuses. 

A pretty healthy way of telling someone off? You mean as opposed to, Idk, telling someone off directly, as a man? Nah its better that we use derogatory terms for the differently abled and less fortunate. Thats healthy [/sarcasm].

If the shoe fits? Ive worked with plenty of differently abled people who have 10x the heart, empathy and decorum that I do. Its touching. I suggest you try it sometime.

Freedom of speech does not include freedom from consequences from your speech. You can be a bigot or a moron all you want, but you better be wjilling to live with the consequences and judging by your speech youre not willing to do so.

As your big guy says, "love thy neighbor." Not denigrate them and use their circumstances to describe thngs you find unpleasant. 

 

The only problem I have with your stance is that in my entire life, I have never seen a "differently abled"/Challenged/(whatever the PC term is this week) person called a retard. Ive never seen a "differently sexually oriented"/homosexual/gay person called a f*g either. Those are exclusively terms I have heard thrown between friends or enemies. 

 

Not that he is the beacon of PC, but Louis CK had a bit on this that I think relates to a lot of peoples stance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-otAJrtY-w

 

^^ obvi not work or kid friendly. 

 

[Ace5]

6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

 

The only problem I have with your stance is that in my entire life, I have never seen a "differently abled"/Challenged/(whatever the PC term is this week) person called a retard. Ive never seen a "differently sexually oriented"/homosexual/gay person called a f*g either. Those are exclusively terms I have heard thrown between friends or enemies. 

 

Not that he is the beacon of PC, but Louis CK had a bit on this that I think relates to a lot of peoples stance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-otAJrtY-w

 

^^ obvi not work or kid friendly. 

 

Ill start by saying I love Louis CK. His standup was gold. And i agree with Dave Chappelle's take on CK's personal issues from a few years back. I'll leave that one alone for forum rules beyond that. 

The Westboro Baptist Church is a pretty strong point against your take on the word F****t/f*g. They protest constantly. I'm sure you've at least indirectly seen or heard of them. And they show up at same sex marriages, rallies, you name it, always using the F word in a hateful way. I think that was my second most favorite word in high school, behind F**k. But fast forward 15 years, I don't use it anymore. 

Youre a little more on base with the R word. My personal experience lines up with yours. But I work with and know a fair few people either on the autism spectrum or with Down Syndrome, and they all feel pretty strongly about it, and in my mind they'd be the ones to check with. 

My bottom line here is Janoris Jenkins is a 31 year old professional athlete, paid millions to play a game. This makes him a role model. He is publicly held to a higher standard then you or I.

This 31 year old man was not just growing up now, making mistakes along the way. He wasn't tossing lighthearted barbs at a friend at a cookout. He was tweeting about how great he is on a 2 win team during practice time. That alone is crap. Then a fan calls him out on it, and he uses what many communitites believe to be a slur, denigrating the fan who is a part of why he makes millions. He issues the most sarcastic lame attemot at an apology ive ever seen, and he is subsequently cut ( a move I agree with) and he takes to twitter to thank jesus for being cut for attacking a fan and using what the Giants feel is inappropriate language. 

This last paragraph provides roughly 4 reasons to not want Janoris Jenkins in Dallas. 

[Calvert28]

2 hours ago, Ace5 said:

Its not about changing a mindset. Mindset is ever growing and evolving. Our kids will ne more advsnced thsn us, and theirs than them. Thats just progress. Rising to meet a new day with a clear eye and a clear heart os different. 

No my point was words change. As do insults. Even if you were able to ban even one word which you cant. Another insult would just take its place. The mindset has and will never change with us. Jenkins was saying something hateful just to be hateful and nothing. Things like that wont change, and even if it comes to a time where a word is so hard coded into our social psyche that we know never to say it, it will either take on a different meaning or that person will just find some other way to be hateful. 

But people now days find way too many things to be offended about. Its becoming worse to the point where I actually worry how modern society would respond to a legit crises since they show little ability to shrug off such petty things. 

A personal and moral stand against someone like Hardy being signed I can understand. But words are some of the easiest things just to ignore. 

 

[Ace5]

3 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

No my point was words change. As do insults. Even if you were able to ban even one word which you cant. Another insult would just take its place. The mindset has and will never change with us. Jenkins was saying something hateful just to be hateful and nothing. Things like that wont change, and even if it comes to a time where a word is so hard coded into our social psyche that we know never to say it, it will either take on a different meaning or that person will just find some other way to be hateful. 

But people now days find way too many things to be offended about. Its becoming worse to the point where I actually worry how modern society would respond to a legit crises since they show little ability to shrug off such petty things. 

A personal and moral stand against someone like Hardy being signed I can understand. But words are some of the easiest things just to ignore. 

 

Its not about banning a word. Of course insults will always happen. Everyone always takes this argument to the nth degree like I'm advocating forced sterilization. I'm not. 

I'll reoeat it again. Jenkins is a 31 year old man paid millions to play a game. This makes him a role model that has ti be held to a higher standard. He publicly bashed his coach, attacked fans, and placed himself above the team. He then thanked God that his misconduct got him cut from the team. Forget the R word. Those things don't disqualify him in your mind? He's an obvious locker room cancer who doesnt give a crap about team mentality. 

[Calvert28]

Just now, Ace5 said:

Its not about banning a word. Of course insults will always happen. Everyone always takes this argument to the nth degree like I'm advocating forced sterilization. I'm not. 

I'll reoeat it again. Jenkins is a 31 year old man paid millions to play a game. This makes him a role model that has ti be held to a higher standard. He publicly bashed his coach, attacked fans, and placed himself above the team. He then thanked God that his misconduct got him cut from the team. Forget the R word. Those things don't disqualify him in your mind? He's an obvious locker room cancer who doesnt give a crap about team mentality. 

Of course it does. H/e the first post I read from you about the subject seemed you were more upset about the word then anything so that's what I assumed. 

[Ace5]

Just now, Calvert28 said:

Of course it does. H/e the first post I read from you about the subject seemed you were more upset about the word then anything so that's what I assumed. 

Its certainly a part of it in my book, theres no doubt. And personal experience in my life plays a role in that. But my main anger isn't that he used it at this point- he already got cut. Its that half this thread seems to be defending him for being an idiot. This jack wagon can stay the hell out of Dallas. 

[Rtnldave]

2 hours ago, Ace5 said:

You and i agree entirely- allowing a child to feel shame and humility is entirely correct and good for them. Ill also agree that we should protect our children from consequence from those mistakes that will happen in the natural course of growing up and learning from those mistakes. We are of a mind there. 

Where i think we differ is that I don't want to extend these same liberties to a 31 year old man because "back in my day it wasn't so bad." Back in my day it wasn't. It's not my day anymore. This guy is supposed to be a role model. Hes not helping.

Well said.