Calvert28 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, JBURGE said: There were some great moments in this movie. Everyone wants to complain about everything. This movie was not an abomination like people are saying, period. I think Ben should have survived over Rey, because Rey sacrificing herself to kill the Palpatine line would have been cool. Kyle/Ben was also the most interesting character in the series by far. I was torn on if I wanted a redemption arc for him, but once he had it, I was happy. I dont see how you can say that when you claim your a huge fan and not know why Rey defeating Palpatine is a huge problem and the biggest contradiction in the entire series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: I dont see how you can say that when you claim your a huge fan and not know why Rey defeating Palpatine is a huge problem and the biggest contradiction in the entire series. Explain to me why this is such a big issue for you? I've seen the originals 2 dozen + times, so yes I would consider myself a huge fan Edited December 20, 2019 by JBURGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Explain to me why this is such a big issue for you? Oh hell no. You claim you're a huge Star Wars fan, so lets see you put fandom to this small test and answer why do you think I called that the biggest contradiction in the series. I'll give you a hint, it basically erased the point of the first 6 movies. Edit: I dont care how many times you've seen it. If you don't know this then those 2 dozen times were a bit pointless if you dont understand the story. The MAIN story. Edited December 20, 2019 by Calvert28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: 13 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Explain to me why this is such a big issue for you? Oh hell no. You claim you're a huge Star Wars fan, so lets see you put fandom to this small test and answer why do you think I called that the biggest contradiction in the series. I'll give you a hint, it basically erased the point of the first 6 movies. Are we talking about the prophecy of Anakin bringing balance to the Force by defeating Palps? Something that was created in the prequels along with midichlorians? Dude, get the hell out of here with your attitude. "Put your fandom to the test" lol as if I need to prove to you that I am a Star Wars fan We don't all have to be super critical of everything EDIT: Just checked back a couple pages and can see yes it is the Prophecy. I don't care, once Yoda said in Ep III that "the prophecy may have been misread" it opened it up for error imo. Edited December 20, 2019 by JBURGE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Are we talking about the prophecy of Anakin bringing balance to the Force by defeating Palps? Something that was created in the prequels along with midichlorians? Dude, get the hell out of here with your attitude. "Put your fandom to the test" lol as if I need to prove to you that I am a Star Wars fan Thanks for reading up on it I guess. You dont just get to pick and choose what you want in the story and what you dont while calling yourself a fan. Then say oh no everyone else is wrong this is not an abomination or bad movie, "period" as if you're lack of knowledge has any authority of what the series is about. You may not have liked what Lucas did with the prequels but they are exactly what he wanted the story to be. And Abrams just undid the entirety of the first 6 movies. Anakin was not the Chosen One and there was no point to the Skywalkers at all. Because Rey just did what they could not. Edited December 20, 2019 by Calvert28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Also, can we prove it was Anakin that was the "Chosen One"? Why can't it be Rey? Her theories around her name standing for "Grey" is technically bringing balance to the Force. To my recollection (granted I have not read the books associated with the films) it was never specified that it was Anakin, does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 minute ago, JBURGE said: Also, can we prove it was Anakin that was the "Chosen One"? Why can't it be Rey? Her theories around her name standing for "Grey" is technically bringing balance to the Force. To my recollection (granted I have not read the books associated with the films) it was never specified that it was Anakin, does it? I already explained this like a couple of pages ago but yes Anakin is the Chosen One. Lucas came right out and made it clear in a interview. Kinda JK Rowling of him to do that, but still its canon. Quote People picked up on the misinterpretation because of what Yoda said in AoC with the prophecy being misread possibly. George Lucas put that in there deliberately to show even Yoda made the mistake in questioning the prophecy and their arrogance was their downfall. Obi Wan was kinda the only one who really believed in Anakin bringing balance but Yoda and the others excluded him rather then trying to help guide him and it worked in Palpatine's favor while he was spreading discord and mistrust. Heres where people got it wrong about the prophecy being misread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Thanks for reading up on it I guess. You dont just get to pick and choose what you want in the story and what you dont while calling yourself a fan. Then say oh no everyone else is wrong this is not an abomination or bad movie, "period" as if you're lack of knowledge has any authority of what the series is about. You may not have liked what Lucas did with the prequels but they are exactly what he wanted the story to be. And Abrams just undid the entirety of the first 6 movies. Anakin was not the Chosen One and there was no point to the Skywalkers at all. Because Rey just did what they could not. I have no issue with the general story of the prequels. They were a mess plot wise just like this sequel trilogy is. We don't need to get into that other than the story is fine and I just wish the were made a little better. I also think it's ok to move on from Anakin being the Chosen One. What else are they supposed to do if they want to extend the trilogy? IMO the threat of the Emperor returning came back WAY too late, should have been there to close Ep VII or in VIII. I don't like Rey as a character at all, but I thought it was pretty interesting having her be Palps granddaughter. If we are so stuck on the prophecy, she could be the chosen one. This whole conversation just confirms that they should never have opened the Skywalker saga up again and just made a new, original film, or used the KOTOR as a baseline. Nothing they could have done once they brought the original 3 back would have done the OG trilogy justice, I am just choosing to try to enjoy it rather than looking at everything they did wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Calvert28 said: I already explained this like a couple of pages ago but yes Anakin is the Chosen One. Lucas came right out and made it clear in a interview. Kinda JK Rowling of him to do that, but still its canon. Heres where people got it wrong about the prophecy being misread. I get what you're saying, but technically, George said those out of the movies. So are they really canon? JK Rowling can come in and say whatever the hell she wants, but if it's not in the books or movies, who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 1 minute ago, JBURGE said: I have no issue with the general story of the prequels. They were a mess plot wise just like this sequel trilogy is. We don't need to get into that other than the story is fine and I just wish the were made a little better. I also think it's ok to move on from Anakin being the Chosen One. What else are they supposed to do if they want to extend the trilogy? IMO the threat of the Emperor returning came back WAY too late, should have been there to close Ep VII or in VIII. I don't like Rey as a character at all, but I thought it was pretty interesting having her be Palps granddaughter. If we are so stuck on the prophecy, she could be the chosen one. This whole conversation just confirms that they should never have opened the Skywalker saga up again and just made a new, original film, or used the KOTOR as a baseline. Nothing they could have done once they brought the original 3 back would have done the OG trilogy justice, I am just choosing to try to enjoy it rather than looking at everything they did wrong No you cant do that. I didn't like the midochlorians or many of the other things Lucas put into the prequels but they are what the entire series is about. Anakin to Lucas was the one who was always supposed to be the one to bring balance. I agree they probably should have left the Skywalker saga alone because they ruined it by saying they didnt matter to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, JBURGE said: I get what you're saying, but technically, George said those out of the movies. So are they really canon? JK Rowling can come in and say whatever the hell she wants, but if it's not in the books or movies, who cares? George Lucas made the movies. He wrote and directed them. That makes them even more canon then 4,5, and 6 IMO for better and for worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 I'll be blunt. This is something a child would come up with. Just throwing every idea they think is cool and epic without any sense. I keep seeing fanservice thrown around but this feels like well produced and expensive fan fiction. This doesn't even feel like a sequel to the prior two films. It feels like a whole different movie that we never saw existed between TLJ and this one and they are just going at business as usual. They didn't bother to make the Emperor being back make any sense. It was just there because they wanted an epic villain. The saddest thing is I don't care anymore. I don't have an emotional connection to this series the way I once did. There was no point to this trilogy. Just in the context of itself it is EASILY the most disjointed of the three trilogies. None of the films felt like they had any direction or flow from one film to the next whatsoever. You can tell they had no real plan. Lucas famously had no plan either but the OT at least felt like it was designed as one ongoing series. In a greater context? What purpose did this serve. I get why the prequels exist, they tell the origin and story of Vader and are about a fall from grace. This film just further cemented that the OT was meaningless. TFA, there's still a way going on and the galaxy is still in chaos wtf but whatever. TLJ, Luke is a cowardly failure who caused more problems than he solved. This film, oh the Emperor isn't really dead, the whole resolution to Return of the Jedi amounted to absolutely nothing. They didn't stop a war, they didn't kill the emperor, and Luke almost killed his nephew and ran away, Han is a deadbeat dad that abandoned his family and Leia is just a hard nosed general that goes to great lengths to screw with her subordinates. And this ended with the war ending and the emperor dead ONLY this time all the Skywalkers are dead and Rey just pissed off to Tatooine because she was pretty much broken and doesn't want to deal with this **** (lets ignore that none of the Skywalkers liked that planet and were all desperate to get off of it). I just think Star Wars was not big enough to exist beyond the OT. Heir to the Empire was good, but never as good as the OT. Most of the comics were whatever even the popular stuff. Knights of the Old Republic is fun in a fanservicey deep canon sort of way. The prequels were redundant but at least it was predictable in what we got. This sequel series was just needless and kind of a narrative mess that undermined what came before. I would say maybe I outgrew it, but I can still watch the OT (which came before I was born, so I don't have some childhood nostalgia because I would have got that with the prequels) and still feel that enjoyment and get why that works. This was just Disney not caring and trying to throw something on the screen. How you can't have any real plan is beyond me 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Also, can we prove it was Anakin that was the "Chosen One"? Why can't it be Rey? Her theories around her name standing for "Grey" is technically bringing balance to the Force. To my recollection (granted I have not read the books associated with the films) it was never specified that it was Anakin, does it? Lucas created the prophecy with the story of how it would end actually being already released. He made the prophecy tailored to the story we already saw. It was clever trickery that because Vader technically turned at the last minute and killed the Emperor he was the one to do it even if he was a complete monster and swerved everyone as an evil man up to that point. It's so very clear it was never designed to be Rey and that everything Rey did was redundant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Wow. That was ******* stupid. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Also can we talk about how the open crawl that reveals Palpatine was based off a Fortnite tie in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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