Steelers Offense is Showing Why Pre-season Reps and Combined Practice is Needed

[warfelg]

13 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Remember that the CBA limits what teams can do in practice.  There has been a noticeable drop-off for all teams since the new rules limiting practicing in pads has gone into effect.

Agreed. I'm going with occums razor if the simplest explaination is the best. 

 

Its why why I brought up other teams. It's been happening for a while to a lot of teams. I'm not comparing like Hitman is saying I am. I'm pointing out we aren't the only team with these problems. Its why you have to look around the league. Offensive line play across the board is struggling. Scoring around the league is struggling. This tells me it isn't a Steelers only problem. 

 

So what's the one thing going on the same with all teams? Less two-a-days. Less contact practices. 

[Steeler Hitman]

5 hours ago, warfelg said:

Agreed. I'm going with occums razor if the simplest explaination is the best. 

 

Its why why I brought up other teams. It's been happening for a while to a lot of teams. I'm not comparing like Hitman is saying I am. I'm pointing out we aren't the only team with these problems. Its why you have to look around the league. Offensive line play across the board is struggling. Scoring around the league is struggling. This tells me it isn't a Steelers only problem. 

 

So what's the one thing going on the same with all teams? Less two-a-days. Less contact practices. 

Valid argument. Most people say that the lack of contact affects the defense and tackling more than it does the offenses execution.  That has been the argument the past several years with the influx of more offense and less dominating defenses. I better understand the point that you are saying now Warfelg. I still believe that if Bell is in training camp whether in pads or shorts, he is more in sync with the OL and Big Ben right now.  I think Bell too would have benefited from a few preseason reps in a game. There is no way to prove this, but I sincerely believe this. I agree with what 43mafia and Chieferific said about Big Ben as well. I believe some of that has to do with a lack of simulated game reps from a combined practice with another NFL team or getting a few more reps in a pre season game. My main point is that I would have liked to see Ben and the offense play a few more snaps in the pre season games. Especially the third preseason game dress rehearsal.

[Ward4HOF]

On 9/19/2017 at 8:16 AM, JLambert58 said:

You're not wrong.  I also struggle with wanting to criticize Ben, especially for missing receivers at times and quite often not hitting that deep throw.   But I always have to remind myself of how GOOD Ben really is.  Playing QB in the NFL is about as tough as it gets.  A guy like Case Keenum would look like an all-world god playing the highest level of flag football but is just OK in the NFL.  Is Ben an all-time great?  I don't think so.  Is he an all-time very good?  Yes imo.  He's been consistently very good for many years, borderline great, and yes mediocre a few plays every game too.

I also have to remind myself what it was like to have an average or below NFL QB on the team for 24 years.  I remember every one of them.  Eventhough they had success during that time, QB was never a given, as it has been during the Roethlisberger years.   So I will give Ben a pass when he is less than perfect, knowing just how well he has played on the whole.  

If we watched Brees, or P. Manning, or other 2nd-tier elite QBs week in and week out, we'd be saying the same thing. Which one of these 3 are "Elite"? Aside from the total yards, look at ratios and %s, you see the 3 are all very closely aligned...

Comp	Att	Incom	Cmp%	Yards	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yards	Y/A

1908

2956

1048

64.55

24206

175

72

99.6

204

1375

8.19

2979

4413

1434

67.51

34435

272

106

101.4

181

1285

7.80

3008

4566

1558

65.88

35706

277

109

99.8

145

871

7.82

Ben as a 2.43 TD/INT Ratio, Brees a 2.57, and Manning a 2.54. Their Rating is all within 2 pts of each other; statistically non-existent when considering 158.3 is considered perfect, so that is what, barely a 1% difference? Then take the Comp % of less than 3 pts. Well, take into account that these are the career home stats for each. Brees and Manning played the majority of their games in a Dome. Well shoot...Ben has a 73% Comp%, 10 TDs/5 INTs, 106.8 Rating in a Dome, in his career 8 games, too...

Here's Brees IN a Dome...(last 2 numbers a YPA and Adj YPA...pretty interesting...)

68.78

34683

259

105

102.5

7.99

8.10

...and NOT...

64.38

28932

192

105

90.3

7.11

6.89

That's quite the disparity. 12.2 By comparison, look at the difference of other Dome QBs:

Manning = 5.1

Ryan = 8.4

Stafford = 8.2 

 

Now, let's look at Brees/Ben and their first 60 or so games outside in their career (well, I don't know they were all outside, but point is, when Brees didn't have the advantage of having Home-Dome.

Brees - 80TDs vs 53INTs / 62.2% / 12348Yds / 6.8 YPA / 84.9 Rating

Ben R. - 91TDs vs 57INTs  / 63.2% / 12620Yds / 8.1 YPA / 92.6 Rating

 

Sorry, I've never been one to believe that Brees is any better than Ben. His accomplishments have all been greatly aided by his situation, and his stats are indicative as much. Be it his career outside games, his early career in San Diego, other Dome QBs that do not have the same disparity of 'assist' from being in a dome...all indicators that Brees, all things being equal, if anything, would likely not have been nearly as good a QB as Ben were it not for being aided by having the dome environment.  That's why it makes me cringe when people act like there was this "Big 4" at the QB spot for a few years, with Brees being included. Sorry, but every argument that can be made for Brees includes being heavily aided by being a Dome QB, as even other Dome QBs haven't enjoyed the level benefit that Brees has.

[CKSteeler]

I get tired of the whole missing wide open receivers thing. Roethlisberger was hurt through all of last year. His knee impacted a lot of things that people don't consider. These two games are not the same as the issues he had last year. It's lazy analysis to conflate things. I'd also point out that the Steelers have a Super Bowl ring because Peyton Manning refused to take check downs and was greedy as **** as a player. The Steelers lose the 2005 playoff game if he simply takes what the Steelers defense gave him. He was the single biggest reason his team lost. Right up there collectively with his OL who he threw under the bus.

I don't think Roethlisberger often misses seeing receivers, either. I could be wrong on that. I think he's in a poorly designed offensive scheme with poor coaching and that he's a naturally greedy player. He's also not surrounded by nameless individuals. Roethlisberger can, in my view, physically and mostly mentally do everything needed to get the job done. He's not going to be Peyton Manning and he's definitely not going to be small ball Tom Brady. But with the right coaching, this offense should be near unstoppable. Roethlisberger has always had a natural gift for seeing the field and as he's gotten older, he's become pretty damn good at it. To a level where it's frankly unappreciated. The guy can basically call his whole offense from the no-huddle. Very few QB's can actually do that.

None of this is to say that he's blameless because he doesn't work as hard as he should (never has) and isn't the best at holding players accountable like Manning was, but to point out that he has a defensive minded coach with a mediocre offensive coaching staff at best. Drew Brees is in probably the second best offensive system in the league. I'm not going to touch the Patriots. Peyton Manning had carte blanche to do what he wanted in Indi and Denver. His offenses failed consistently in the playoffs more so than Ben's.

Summary - Roethlisberger is a flawed player, though most people misdiagnose the flaws in my not very humble opinion. His accuracy is fine and will be this year unless he gets injured again. Which isn't some foregone conclusion. What he needs is a coach who can and will browbeat him into making the best decision every play. He's capable of it and the offensive talent is there right now to where there's no excuses. The team would probably be better if Todd Haley was more of a **** personality with a hands off personality on Sundays in terms of the play calling, frankly.

[jebrick]

A decent article on a lot of the topics that have been discussed in this thread

Quote

 

Two weeks into the NFL season, the game’s overall aesthetics are under fire. Scoring is down, sacks are up, and Brian Hoyer is still gainfully employed as a starting quarterback. Offenses, we’re being told, are in crisis. But are things really that bad?

Blame is being assigned to everything from reductions in practice time to the aging of some of the game’s better quarterbacks to the deterioration of offensive line play to rosters composed of cheaper, younger players thanks to the downward pressures of the rookie-wage scale. But there is another significant culprit, and it’s one that’s often mentioned in passing, assuming it’s even mentioned at all: Defenses have gotten better, and the NFL may right now be going through one of its periodic cycles in which defenses become dominant.

 

Quote

 

To say play is worse, and that a lack of practice time is the cause, gives short shrift to what’s happening with defenses. To counter all those extra pass catchers lining up all over offensive formations, defenses have increasingly been using nickel packages, which (as the name suggests) include five defensive backs. In 2011, according to Football Outsiders, nickel defenses were on the field on 40 percent of all plays. By last year, that number was 57 percent—and a six percent jump from just the year before. For many teams, nickel has essentially become a base package.

 

 

[August4th]

honestly down for a more defensive NFL ... just hope they don't make more rules helping the offense as a result

[CKSteeler]

I like defensive football. What we're seeing doesn't look like good anything to me in most games. Just flag-fueled slop. And the number one thing that makes watching a game these days hard is the flags. College football is more watchable despite many of the same rules being in place and I've never been a college fan.

[JLambert58]

On 9/22/2017 at 7:07 AM, jebrick said:

A decent article on a lot of the topics that have been discussed in this thread

 

Good add Jebrick.

I think this a natural reaction to high-powered offenses.  It's like when Tiger Woods was killing everbody at the turn of the century.  Eventually the field figured out what it need to do to compensate.  Specifically with regards to the Steelers defense, we've seen how we've been forced to adjust to a different style of pass defense to stay competitive.  The great defensive minds in the league will always catch up with the other side and vice versa.  Glad we are in an up-cycle on this issue right now.  

I agree with some of the other posters who said they like to watch good defensives battling it out.  I love how we've continued to re-build the defense over the past few years.  Can't wait to see what happens when they mature together.