2020 NFL Draft: Discussion, Reports, Rumors, and Studies

[Rockice_8]

2 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

Edoga starting at RT with no offseason program is a nightmare waiting to happen 

You ain't kidding.

[Bobby816]

Just now, Rockice_8 said:

Those are really bad comparisons for Pittman.  He's got naturally good hands and is a smooth route runner neither of those other two had either of those traits.  Pittman will be better than Claypool if I had to guess.

If we land Pittman in round 2 we got ourselves a very good WR.

Those are comparisons for Claypool. 

[mek5295]

Day 1 Tackles: 

•  Becton - World theory: people should not be his size and movement. Any analysis who says he's "boom or bust" isn't watching the tape. More of a fit RT right now but has the talent to move to LT. A top 10 player. 
•  Thomas - Going to be a solid pro if not spectacular. Taylor Decker comes to mind. Depends on your flavor, but worthy of a top 10 pick. 
•  Wirfs - He's a guy that people can't get too caught up on the tape only- has the traits to be Trent Williams, but his floor is high as a All-Pro caliber G. 
•  Wills - I don't know what to feel about him. He displays some really good tape and great flexibility, but there's something about him that I can't put a finger on which makes me hesitate. I guess it's the fact he has never played a single rep at LT and we have no idea how versatile he is. Still, he'd be a top 10 pick in any draft but this one given the depth. 
• Jones - Reminds me of Eugene Monroe. I would really like the Jets to move down and grab him if the opportunity presents itself. Best compromise of having athletic talent but being ready to handle one-on-ones against NFL players. 
• Jackson - He's a bit like the Leonard Williams of OTs. The skill and talent is there. He's so young. Build like Laremy Tunsil. He's going to be a good pro. 
• Cleveland - I don't think he's a day 1 tackle, but he's rumored to be. Rare athletic traits. Joe Thomas likes him and Cleveland is angling to get him. Kolton Miller 2.0. 

Day 2 Tackles: 

• Wilson - I'm not a fan for our scheme at all, but I can see why a team running a power or inside-zone scheme would love him. I think Seattle takes him round 1. 
• Peardt - he's the only guy that the Jets could get on day 2 that I'd feel comfortable with as a starting tackle with the potential to play LT. 
• Bartch - He's interesting. Not enough length but clearly looks like an NFL tackle in terms of playing style. In all likelihood he'll be a guard, but worth trying at tackle. 
• Charles - significant character issues, but I may prefer him than the rest of the guys available. Actually kind of like Edoga. Upside to be Duane Brown-like. 
• Wanogho - raw as raw can be. Has legitimate 2nd round talent but Auburn doesn't coach up their tackles. Take him with caution at the top of the 3rd. 
• Niang - Brandon Shell 2.0. A severely overrated player with an ugly NFL body. High hipped, thin legged, thin calfs. Could be a solid player, but not a franchise tackle. He has no business going in the top 75 picks. 

 

Day 1 Wide Receivers:

• Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, Jefferson, Mims are all solid prospects, but severely overrated and sensationalized. The problem is WRs have become so popular because of fantasy football. Much like the "franchise QB" vs "scheme QB" debate - there are bonafide #1 receivers and then there are guys who put up crazy production within their scheme, but not "true" #1 receivers. There are only 5 true number one receivers in the NFL currently: Julio Jones, AJ Green, Davante Adams, Courtland Sutton, Odell Beckham. These guys can all play in any scheme and be the focal point without the coaches needing to scheme around them. Guys like Michael Thomas and Tyreek Hill, 
• Lamb - top guy with the best chance of being a clear alpha #1 receiver, but system dependent. Lamb was wide open his entire career. There's no doubting his skills, but how will he handle press coverage? His route running is not what it's made out to be. More of a dominant YAC receiver at this point who will thrive on back shoulders. I honestly think he's Davante Adams. I felt Davante should've been a 1st round pick when he came out, but I don't think you spend a top 10 pick on a receiver unless they are Julio Jones/AJ Green. 
• Jeudy - Can't turn a blind eye to the athletic tests with Jeudy. I get it - his tape is phenomenal - but he's going to be a slot-predominant in the NFL.
• Ruggs - has the most talent, but he too is scheme dependent. He's not a #1 receiver. Maybe he'll eventually put up #1 production, but it will be scheme dependent/manufactured. Newsflash: Adam Gase is not Andy Reid. 
• Jefferson - He's someone I really like as a late 1-early 2, but seeing him in the top 20 in mocks? He doesn't play to his speed and dominated out of the slot only. Why would you take Jefferson in the 1st when you can grab Tee Higgins in the 2nd - who may not have the athletic test results but plays very similarly? I bet if you put Higgins in Jefferson's role at LSU he would've had the same production... 
• Mims - Not crazy about him. Stephen Hill had underlying character issues that didn't come to light until he got to the NFL, but kind of see the same kind of player. Didn't run full speed and isn't clean, but makes the acrobatic catches. Assuming no character issues his career will be a lot better than Hill's, but I don't see a guy who is a nuanced route runner and I'm not sure he'll ever develop into anything more than a #2/3 option in an offense. 

Day 2 Wide Receivers 

• Pittman - he's going to go in the first round when it's all said and done. You heard it here first. 
• Aiyuk, Shenault, Hamler, Reagor, Higgins - take your pick. They all would be 1st round players in a traditional class, yet they could potentially be available at 68 - let alone 48. Are any of them bonafide #1 receivers? No, but I don't think the guys on day one are either. At WR it's all about the end result. Some of them will bust, but it's most likely because the team that selects them tries to force a square peg in a round hole so to speak. If you try to convert them into #1 split ends - you'll be disappointed - but the same can be said for the day 1 guys. I've been reading some of the back and forth on here and I have no interest in getting in a circular argument. The way to go is take a 1st round talent on day 2 at WR and a top 10 talent at offensive line on day 1. Anything other option is just fan speak - fan base wanting a fantasy football player instead of a football player. 
• Edwards - extremely good prospect who should be a 2nd round pick but will likely go in the 3rd. I actually think he has a chance at being a "bonafide" 1 in the NFL. Reminds me of Courtland Sutton. 
• Claypool - Brandon Marshall-like. Ideally you take him in the 3rd round. 
• DPJ - I don't know what to believe. You're purely taking him based on his skill set. Ideally late 3rd round. 
• Bowden - he's going to go earlier than people project and is worth a 3rd round selection. 
• Watkins - watch out for this guy. He's going to go earlier than people are projecting him. 
• Hightower - see Watkins. He's going to go at some point day 2, likely much higher than people expect. 

[Rockice_8]

4 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Those are comparisons for Claypool. 

Oh my mistake I thought you liked Claypool so I was confused.   Yes those probably aren't bad comparisons then.  He's much faster but I see where you were going.

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, Rockice_8 said:

Oh my mistake I thought you liked Claypool so I was confused.   Yes those probably aren't bad comparisons then.  He's much faster but I see where you were going.

I do like Claypool. Not at 48 though.

[NJC33]

56 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Its the most accurate of all the classes to compare to this one. You named the 2016 class... yet those WRs were not hyped like these 3 are. I used the class I did... bc BOTH the OTs AND the WRs were hyped. And it doesn't support what I say. I feel like some of you half way read posts. I repeatedly have said I wont be unhappy with an OT. Me showing that class shows fails at WR as well (Watkins hasn't lived up to his spot, Benjamin, Lee, Matthews are all on there). I didn't just bring up the successes. 

Again, there is literally no objective way to look at the OT/WR debate using one draft - There is no "most accurate". 

You're choosing the 2014 class because it compares most favorably to this WR group (Agreed), that doesn't make it the best comparison for this OT group.The fact that you disregard Zach Martin (OT in college) and forget to include Taylor Lewan after saying "Would you be happy with.." is just icing on the cake to further cement the subjective argument. Your post reads a lot differently if you decide to end with: Taylor Lewan, Zach Martin or Jake Matthews. 

Sample size is needed to eliminate favoritism. It's one thing to just compare the two WR classes because there are obvious similarities. Where you lose me, is trying to favor the 2014 class over 10 years of evidence for the purpose of comparing first round OT/WR. 

[SDotNova]

With the Matt Hennessy rumors, I’m like if we go OT at 11, we might as well just go iOL in the 2nd and be done with it. Adding Wills and Hennessy to this line would make it above average.

Another guy I like is Nick Harris. He can move around pretty well.

Edited April 14, 2020 by SDotNova

[KimuraGod]

12 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

With the Matt Hennessy rumors, I’m like if we go OT at 11, we might as well just go iOL in the 2nd and be done with it. Adding Wills and Hennessy to this line would make it above average.

Another guy I like is Nick Harris. He can move around pretty well.

@Bobby816 Will be throwing things through the TV if this happened 😂😂

[SDotNova]

13 minutes ago, xenajets said:

@Bobby816 Will be throwing things through the TV if this happened 😂😂

Haha. I know. We can all just hate Macc for this. How the hell are we so weak at Edge, Corner, WR and OL?

I just want to come out of this draft feeling great about one of those offensive weaknesses. My preference is WR. But if we decide to fix the OL, then fix it. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by SDotNova

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

Again, there is literally no objective way to look at the OT/WR debate using one draft - There is no "most accurate". 

You're choosing the 2014 class because it compares most favorably to this WR group (Agreed), that doesn't make it the best comparison for this OT group.The fact that you disregard Zach Martin (OT in college) and forget to include Taylor Lewan after saying "Would you be happy with.." is just icing on the cake to further cement the subjective argument. Your post reads a lot differently if you decide to end with: Taylor Lewan, Zach Martin or Jake Matthews. 

Sample size is needed to eliminate favoritism. It's one thing to just compare the two WR classes because there are obvious similarities. Where you lose me, is trying to favor the 2014 class over 10 years of evidence for the purpose of comparing first round OT/WR. 

Listen we get that you and @Rockice_8want a OT no matter what. There literally could be a Julio Jones clone and you guys would say we should go OT. Which is ok. But you guys are talking like there’s a debate. It’s not a player you guys are even advocating for. It’s a position. Which to me isn’t evaluating draft class. It’s evaluating a position. Maybe I missed it but please give me a breakdown of how you rank these OTs and WRs at the top 1/2 of the draft. Are any WRs higher than any of the 4 OTs? 

[mek5295]

15 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

Again, there is literally no objective way to look at the OT/WR debate using one draft - There is no "most accurate". 

You're choosing the 2014 class because it compares most favorably to this WR group (Agreed), that doesn't make it the best comparison for this OT group.The fact that you disregard Zach Martin (OT in college) and forget to include Taylor Lewan after saying "Would you be happy with.." is just icing on the cake to further cement the subjective argument. Your post reads a lot differently if you decide to end with: Taylor Lewan, Zach Martin or Jake Matthews. 

Sample size is needed to eliminate favoritism. It's one thing to just compare the two WR classes because there are obvious similarities. Where you lose me, is trying to favor the 2014 class over 10 years of evidence for the purpose of comparing first round OT/WR. 

This WR class is nothing like the 2014 WR class. Entirely different crop. If anything, the OT group this year = 2014 WR group. That class was top heavy at WR group with elite top 4 class and depth through the 2nd round, but sorely lacked depth. Doesn't that sound a lot like the OL group?

Fact is this is the first class of its kind, so there's no recent history to point to. From an apples to apples talent perspective, it's like taking the top 14 players from the 2017 draft class and the top 13 WRs from the 2019 class - but merging them into one. If you eliminate recency bias and just evaluate the players for who they were perceived to be before entering the NFL: 

• Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs are on par in terms of value that Davis, Williams, and Ross were coming out (not what they are perceived to be now). Anyone who tries to tell you different has probably already ate their own crow from saying that the 2017 WR class was "as good as" the 2014 class back in 2017. 

Then after them, you have a hodgepodge of really good prospects- all deserving to go between late round 1-early round 3:  

• Zay Jones = Denzel Mims 
• Marquise Brown = KJ Hamler 
• DK Metcalf/Jalen Hurd = Chase Claypool 
• Terry McLaurin = Van Jefferson 
• Miles Boykin = Bryan Edwards 
• N'Keal Harry = Tee Higgins
• AJ Brown = Justin Jefferson 
• Deebo Samuel = Laviska Shenault 
• Curtis Samuel = Jalen Reagor 
• JuJu Smith-Schuster = Michael Pittman 
• Chris Godwin = Brandon Aiyuk 
• Cooper Kupp = Devin Duvernay 
• JJ Arcega-Whiteside = Donovan Peoples-Jones 
• Andy Isabella = Quez Watkins 
• Diontae Johnson = John Hightower 
• Parris Campbell = Gabriel Davis
• Taywan Taylor = Quartney Davis
• ArDarius Stewart = Lynn Bowden 
• Kenny Golladay = Antonio Gandy-Golden
• Chad Williams = Isaiah Coulter
• Amara Darboh = Tyler Johnson

[mek5295]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Listen we get that you and @Rockice_8want a OT no matter what. There literally could be a Julio Jones clone and you guys would say we should go OT. Which is ok. But you guys are talking like there’s a debate. It’s not a player you guys are even advocating for. It’s a position. Which to me isn’t evaluating draft class. It’s evaluating a position. Maybe I missed it but please give me a breakdown of how you rank these OTs and WRs at the top 1/2 of the draft. Are any WRs higher than any of the 4 OTs? 

I've been reading a lot of this back and forth over the past few day as well as some of the mock drafts and for a while and it appears you've moved all the top wide receivers ahead of the tackles simply because they play wide receiver. Is it because you have someone in particular you like or do you just want a WR?

Personally, no, I don't have any of these receivers higher than any of the offensive tackles. The top 4 OTs are head and shoulders above all of the top 3-5 wide receivers. If Julio Jones was in this draft class, I would have Becton and Thomas ahead of him, Wirfs and Wills below him

[Bianconero]

Uhhhhhh, let's trade Quinnen

No muscle

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, mek5295 said:

I've been reading a lot of this back and forth over the past few day as well as some of the mock drafts and for a while and it appears you've moved all the top wide receivers ahead of the tackles simply because they play wide receiver. Is it because you have someone in particular you like or do you just want a WR?

Personally, no, I don't have any of these receivers higher than any of the offensive tackles. The top 4 OTs are head and shoulders above all of the top 3-5 wide receivers. If Julio Jones was in this draft class, I would have Becton and Thomas ahead of him, Wirfs and Wills below him

I think need shouldn’t not be a factor. Look at what drafting BPA for a century has gotten us. Pre FA yes I had a few of the OTs ranked higher than a few of the WRs. What is important to know about it is that I think they’re all top 10 talents. So I think every one of them are worth the 11th pick. But after getting 3 starting OLineman and hoping Edoga is better (we knew he was a project with talent). And downgrading at WR. WR jumped OT for me as a need. And as I stated I view Lamb, Jeudy and Ruggs all worthy of the 11th pick. And have them higher on my board now. As for the OT class. I really like Wills. Wirfs is my 2nd guy and Thomas my 3rd. I’d be happy with anyone of those 6 guys at 11. Becton is where I wouldn’t love the pick, but wouldn’t hate it. I think he’s a bigger project than some think. I hope I’d be wrong if we do draft him. There’s just not a lot of technique to his game. And you can get away with that at his size, strength and movement in college. But you can’t in the NFL. So bc I see him as a risk... he’s outside those 6 guys for me.

[Dr.O]

Anyone else think it’s not a coincidence that Mcshay, DJ, and Bucky Brooks all had us taking WR? McDhay gave us Jeudy and DJ/BB gave us Lamb...I still believe that we go OL but I think we’re looking more at WR than some of us believe.