2020 NFL Draft: Discussion, Reports, Rumors, and Studies

[KingOfNewYork]

5 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

In Round 2. So we can draft the Saunders and Evans of the draft in Round 3.

Now this is just cruel. No one wants to remember Saunders and Evans. 

[KimuraGod]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

In Round 2. So we can draft the Saunders and Evans of the draft in Round 3.

There’s really top quality receivers that should be available in rounds 2&3 this year. I’m all for taking a receiver in the 1st because I like the second tier OT’s more than most. I’d still double dip at receiver regardless though. 
 

Whoever started the discussion that the top OTs are all better players than the WR’s makes zero sense. I’m all for prioritising OT over WR and likewise Edge over DT etc but it’s clear these receivers are special and we would be blessed to have a top weapon for once. 

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, NJC33 said:

😂👏👏

And as Jets fans.. and our draft history... whe have every doubt in the world to trust us getting a WR in mid rounds. Last one we did with any real good success was Jerricho Cotchery in 2004. So you could understand why we dont trust this whole "wait till the mid rounds" for a WR debate. As Jets Fans we have every right to even if it s anew GM and a deep WR class.

[SDotNova]

11 minutes ago, xenajets said:

Which is why it was ******* stupid to not resign Robby. I’d feel so much more comfortable with Robby and Crowder as starters knowing that if we went WR in rounds 2&3 we’d be set up long term. 
 

Just to throw a little more gas on the bonfire but we NEED A PASD RUSHER too: So where does that play out?!? 

The magic of Big Macc not factoring need and positional value. We have question marks at WR, OT, Edge and CB. What the hell. My threshold is if we can come out of the draft feeling good about two of those groups, I’d be happy. 3 and I’ll be trolling the NFL General board that the Jets are the team to beat 

[KimuraGod]

2 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Now this is just cruel. No one wants to remember Saunders and Evans. 

Which is why it pisses me off when people say leave it to the experts. Like you posted earlier the amount of times we’ve been right down the years is laughable compared to the clowns who have been paid to run this franchise. 

It’s why it annoyed me when all the ‘Rose tinted’ fans continue to support regime after regime and tell fans who question certain things that they don’t know what they are talking about as they are just a ‘fan’. 
 

[dcat]

14 minutes ago, xenajets said:

There’s really top quality receivers that should be available in rounds 2&3 this year. I’m all for taking a receiver in the 1st because I like the second tier OT’s more than most. I’d still double dip at receiver regardless though. 
 

Whoever started the discussion that the top OTs are all better players than the WR’s makes zero sense. I’m all for prioritising OT over WR and likewise Edge over DT etc but it’s clear these receivers are special and we would be blessed to have a top weapon for once. 

Aiyuk, Pittman, Reagor, Mims, even Shenault are the most likely to be at 48 (not all of them, but one or two).  They, IMO,  are not "top quality" like Lamb, Ruggs and Jeudy.  They are 2nd-3rd tier.  It really doesn't matter how "deep" the draft is.  There are only 3 top cadidates in my book.  Then Jefferson, Higgins are next.  3rd tier: Mims, Shenault, Aiyuk, Pittman.

They are not Top Quality.  Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs are. 

That doesn't mean the exact same thing couldn't be said about the OT class too.  

Edited April 16, 2020 by dcat

[NJC33]

Just now, Bobby816 said:

And as Jets fans.. and our draft history... whe have every doubt in the world to trust us getting a WR in mid rounds. Last one we did with any real good success was Jerricho Cotchery in 2004. So you could understand why we dont trust this whole "wait till the mid rounds" for a WR debate. As Jets Fans we have every right to even if it s anew GM and a deep WR class.

I get the scars run deep but it's completely illogical and unfair to use our historical incompetence against Joe Douglas and the current FO. When you start making decisions fueled by emotion, you start making mistakes.

[mek5295]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I agree. But I’ve pointed out over the years (I know you’re new here) that bc we didn’t factor in need... even picks we’ve hit on weren’t necessarily good for this team. We drafted Jamal Adams who I like a lot. But there was 2 QBs worthy of that spot in Watson and Mahomes (I was high on Mahomes but only bc I’m a Texas Tech alum, I never thought he’d be this good). So while the pick of Adams isn’t a fail. What it made us do in drafts after is where it hurt us. We had to trade 3 2nd rounders and a swap 1sts to get Darnold. Think of what those picks could have been the last 3 drafts instead of Adams. QB was a HUGE need for us in the Adams draft. If we would’ve just drafted Watson or Mahomes we then would have had our original 1st the next year, our 2nds that year as well as our 2nd last year. That’s getting our QB and adding what “could’ve been” 4 quality players with premium picks. So there’s a lot more than just this draft you pointed out with fails that set us back. The only unfortunate good pick we’ve made was Devin Smith in recent years. Nearly every other 1st and 2nd round pick most of us didn’t care for, for quite some time. And while we are all far from experts... our results on the field show that what we wanted as fans on this board... would’ve helped this team more than what our last several GMs have done.

 

I know JD is new and he has had great teachers. But this his 1st tome as a GM in a draft so there’s no telling what he will want to do. And while there’s no support to say we shouldn’t trust him. We as jets fans bc of our oat few GMs have every right to not trust our GM drafting for us. And  we all hope he proves us all wrong and is incredible at building a roster.

Long-term I believe Sam Darnold will be the superior player to Watson and I don't think it will be close when careers are compared 20 years from now. I do think Mahomes landed in the absolute perfect spot and he's on his way to being the best QB in the league, but I don't believe he would be that player with the state of our roster and coaching staff the way it was in 2017-2018. Mahomes is sensational, but we still haven't seen him in a Russell Wilson-like situation- new offensive coach, no receivers, no offensive line, and still perform. Saying that Mahomes or Watson with the state of our roster, which was far worse in 2017-2018, would be remotely as good as they are with their current teams with the Jets is a bit of a pipedream. Last year the product on the field was on par with what it was the past 2 years, and when I say on the field I mean all the guys that were playing (not the injured). That's how bad our 2017 roster was. It's not that simple with QBs.

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Exactly. Is Marcus Maye not a good player? No he’s pretty good. But we were handed Dalvin Cook on a platter when we needed a RB. We go a S (after we just drafted one in Round 1). And then a year later use a big portion of cap on a RB that could’ve been used elsewhere. It’s all things like this.

Vehemently disagree. The state of the roster is an important factor. What would Dalvin Cook had done for us? Nothing. By the time the team is rebuilt, then he's already entering the twilight of his career. With Maye, you have a potentially long-term difference maker who is still scratching the surface of his ability. Also, what line is he running behind?

The RB debate is a whole nother one. Only way you trade a RB before the 3rd round is if the guy is a significant prospect and you're a piece away from being a winning team. 

3 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

See this is hilarious.

And that's just the first round

We are constantly right in the first round, its the easiest thing for us as fans to be right about, its like we've been handed great players on a plate and the Jets continue to pass them up. Even in the 2nd/3rd round I've seen guys on here be right. I have more faith in Douglas than the last 3 guys in charge.

Sometimes its not about just picking the best player but picking the right player.

We need a complete team, every year we go into the season with not just holes but major ones. I forgot which analyst said it but sometimes "good enough" is just that. The BPA isn't bad but how many defensive tackles are we gonna draft?

It's easy to play monday morning quarterback and I'm not discounting what you are saying, but put yourself in Joe Douglas's shoes: are you going to (1) care about what your predecessors did or didn't do, or (2) care about what a bunch of fans want, who don't even watch the players for the most part? It's not that simple. Of the ones you mentioned Cooks was the obvious choice. He was a top notch receiver prospect and in fact, I think he was a better prospect than any of the guys in this draft. No one was calling for Hopkins. No one was calling for Jaylon Smith (it was a shock on draft day that he went as early as he did). There was no EDGE to draft in 2015 that made sense. 2012 is fair- it was pretty unanimous that DeCastro and Ingram were the picks, but again, I think Rex/Tannenbaum were trying to swing for the fences and fix the pass rush with a guy they liked. 

Also, if you're going to cite when you feel Jets fans were right, have to acknowledge when they were wrong. Fans weren't crazy D'Brickashaw and Mangold. The consensus was Matt Leinart and DeAngelo Williams. Fans weren't crazy about Darrelle Revis- many wanted them to draft a big percentage of the population wanted Brian Leonard of all players (before trade for Thomas Jones) and rolled their eyes at Greg Olsen given our recent history with tight ends. People wanted Leon Hall and Jarvis Moss. In 2008, everyone wanted Vernon Gholston. Look how that turned out. 

Point is it goes both ways. Some fans are smart and understand, but for the most part we're just talking heads. 

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

This is not true. I suggest you go look at NFL talent evaluators big boards and player rankings. Not just mock drafts. Nearly every single one of them have a WR (mostly multiple ones) in the mix (most even ahead of) the OTs. That's not saying that in a mock draft they have them going higher. But as far as player ranking... they are higher on some boards. For example PFF has both Jeudy and Lamb ahead of any OT. And Ruggs behind Thomas and Wirfs and ahead of Wills. And Becton they have pretty far down. They do have Jones at 14 though.

 

Daniel Jeremiah has Becton at 7 (I don't agree with this at all), Lamb at 9, Wills at 10, Jeudy at 11, Ruggs at 12, Wills at 13 and Thomas at 17.

 

Please show me a NFL draft experts player rankings that have 4 OTs ahead of ANY WR?!?!

 

 

That very same expert also acknowledges how far less important the wide receiver position is than the offensive line, cornerback, and defensive end positions. He's in the media and is not given a team to build for, thus he does not attach positional value to his grades - which he has said so himself.

[GangGreen420]

You have to throw the draft history argument out the window when we have a new, first time GM making the picks for us.

[KimuraGod]

Just now, dcat said:

Aiyuk, Pittman, Reagor, Mims, even Shenault are the most likely to be at 48 (not all of them, but one or two).  They, IMO,  are not "top quality" like Lamb, Ruggs and Jeudy.  They are 2nd-3rd tier.  It really doesn't matter how "deep" the draft is.  There are only 3 top cadidates in my book.  Then Jefferson, Higgins are next.  3rd tier: Mims, Shenault, Aiyuk, Pittman.

They are not Top Quality.  Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs are. 

I respectfully disagree. Aiyuk and Shenault are going to be studs if they stay healthy and are used correctly. And in a normal draft you wouldn’t expect/hope to find top quality options in rounds 2&3 whereas this year is such an anomaly. 

Like iv said before it’s critical we come out of the first four picks with two receivers. That can be #11 & #79 or even #48 & #68. 
 

[KimuraGod]

10 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

The magic of Big Macc not factoring need and positional value. We have question marks at WR, OT, Edge and CB. What the hell. My threshold is if we can come out of the draft feeling good about two of those groups, I’d be happy. 3 and I’ll be trolling the NFL General board that the Jets are the team to beat 

You could argue other than QB they are the next biggest needs of a team and yet we have piss all in that regard. 
I must say though I love Bless Austin. Really rooting for him this year. 

[dcat]

4 minutes ago, xenajets said:

I respectfully disagree. Aiyuk and Shenault are going to be studs if they stay healthy and are used correctly. And in a normal draft you wouldn’t expect/hope to find top quality options in rounds 2&3 whereas this year is such an anomaly. 

Like iv said before it’s critical we come out of the first four picks with two receivers. That can be #11 & #79 or even #48 & #68. 
 

Well as to the WR eval, you and I totally disagree.  But that's ok.  And, the same arguments can be made about the OT class too (rd 1 vs rd 2).  In some ways, the Jets, as usual, are between a rock and a hard place. You can thank Rex, Tannenbaum, Idzik, Bowles and Mac for all of that, because those five idiots controlled all of it.  Now do people understand just why Gase made himself invisible at last year's draft?  He was given no say or control and Mac, with his moronic "safe bet" policy, missed out yet again on filling important needs.  Gase separated himself from that literally and visually.  It is what led to Mac's removal.  He completely botched last year's draft, likely turned down offers for #3 merely because they were below "chart" value.   

Good riddance.  Let's hope Mac never comes out of stay-at-home-quarantine.  Wish he was there in our last 2 drafts.

Edited April 16, 2020 by dcat

[KimuraGod]

5 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

I get the scars run deep but it's completely illogical and unfair to use our historical incompetence against Joe Douglas and the current FO. When you start making decisions fueled by emotion, you start making mistakes.

I agree in that regard although I can understand the trepidation Bobby alludes too. However our scouts who are all over the country year in year out I presume are the same guys?! Maybe I’m wrong. 
If they are however then it’s got to be considered and not just thrown out because we have a new GM 

[NJC33]

1 minute ago, xenajets said:

I agree in that regard although I can understand the trepidation Bobby alludes too. However our scouts who are all over the country year in year out I presume are the same guys?! Maybe I’m wrong. 
If they are however then it’s got to be considered and not just thrown out because we have a new GM 

Believe me I get the frustration but allowing it to influence our current situation is bad business. From my understanding, Douglas brought in a new scouting department and at the very least the actual shot callers are all new. 

[mek5295]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

That 3 cone is what I think JD cares about.

 

Was watching some breakdown in depth on these OTs and Cleveland, Peart and Jackson are guys I think that JD might like over some of these other guys (really just Becton). Several of the breakdowns were tough on Becton (which I am as well). A thing that kept coming up with him is people getting caught in his size and 40. But if you actually watch his feet, they're not as quick as that 40 shows. And he didn't run other quick drills at the combine (probably bc he knew it would only hurt his stock). So is he athletic? Yes for his size. But guys a bit smaller than him and that can still play OT have quicker feet than him. So he will be a good pass blocker bc of his length and strength and enough quickness. But its a whole other thing for him in the run game. Several breakdowns said if you look at just Bectons run game tape... he would be a mid round pick.

 

What several of the guys also pointed to, which several of us here have as well. Is that Thomas was looked at as the top OT for so long. Very well polished as a 3 year starter, rarely injured and produced in a good conference. Yet is getting moved down boards by some for no reason other than just some of these other guys doing well at the combine and looking more flashy. Where Thomas should still be the top OT on peoples board from a franchise OT standpoint. Which is an excellent point.

I must be honest. I don't think you've ever watched Becton. Becton's feet are faster than Thomas's. I also don't think Douglas gives a lick about specific drills. He's a scout first and foremost. He has said he puts a premium on the tape and has gone on record that the underwear olympics is to cross T's, dot I's, and use it to evaluate medically and see how competitive guys are. So for that I don't really think a specific drill matters. Ronnie Stanley's 3-cone was poor- but he was a dancing bear on tape and is now one of the best tackles in the league. Also, stop with your defamation. "He probably didn't run it because it would hurt his stock". This is total HS. The guy got injured in the COD Wave Drill (not that you would know what that is), which he was crushing. Put some respect in the guys name. 

Stop trying to pigeonhole a narrative that fits your own agenda. You should be ashamed of being "a mod". Totally unprofessional.