Thomas5737 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 18 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Great line, very well said. Especially for you. Wait, is that a compliment or an insult? Or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 6 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: Wait, is that a compliment or an insult? Or both? Very perceptive, I didn't expect you to catch that, it was both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 17 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: you mean the Ravens game? he shouldn't of been pulled that game, but he did miss a TD pass to CC on a double move, instead he hit TP for 10-15 yards. My bad. Yep the Ravens. 12 hours ago, Bonanza23 said: Yeah I can understand. I can see your side. Unfortunately I can always see both sides. That leads me to see hues side. He wanted to win, he needed a spark. He thought (justifiably so) that McCown could do it. It failed now some question him. But the fact remains hoyer errr Kessler was not good after the first drive. And that has continued until now. We suck Kessler wasn't playing terribly and he wasn't playing great. He was just competing. If Hue knew a thing about McCown he'd have known Josh isn't the relief pitcher type. In that situation McCown is going to turn the ball over and make things worse 9 out of 10 times. When McCown struggles it's almost always because he's trying to do too much. That decision highlighted Hue's inability to evaluate his players. It was an unbelievably awful decision at that point in the game and had ramifications for his rookie QB that, your right, still exist till today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 4 hours ago, BrownLeader said: My bad. Yep the Ravens. Kessler wasn't playing terribly and he wasn't playing great. He was just competing. If Hue knew a thing about McCown he'd have known Josh isn't the relief pitcher type. In that situation McCown is going to turn the ball over and make things worse 9 out of 10 times. When McCown struggles it's almost always because he's trying to do too much. That decision highlighted Hue's inability to evaluate his players. It was an unbelievably awful decision at that point in the game and had ramifications for his rookie QB that, your right, still exist till today. Yeah I just disagree with you and Thomas. I saw a guy who regressed when defenses caught up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Bonanza23 said: Yeah I just disagree with you and Thomas. I saw a guy who regressed when defenses caught up with him. It's possible but there was really just two halves off play where that happened and he was statistically good against the Ravens but we weren't scoring as his passing yards per drive were 20, 20, 3, 53 (TD), 9 and -3 so not a great offensive showing considering the run game was terrible. But that sample size is much too small to say that defenses caught up with him as the Ravens and Steelers both had decent or better defenses. May be true but it is based on 32 throws. He also had more passing yards on 14 attempts (128) than McCown had on 27 attempts (114) against the Steelers so in comparison it may not have just been him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: It's possible but there was really just two halves off play where that happened and he was statistically good against the Ravens but we weren't scoring as his passing yards per drive were 20, 20, 3, 53 (TD), 9 and -3 so not a great offensive showing considering the run game was terrible. But that sample size is much too small to say that defenses caught up with him as the Ravens and Steelers both had decent or better defenses. May be true but it is based on 32 throws. He also had more passing yards on 14 attempts (128) than McCown had on 27 attempts (114) against the Steelers so in comparison it may not have just been him. Like I said we just aren't going to agree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 14 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Like I said we just aren't going to agree on this. That's fine I think we agree the best thing would be to remove him from the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 While for continuity purposes we desperately desire giving Hue a long leash, it's different than denying the truth. Truth is Hue is 1-19. Truth is that's bad for even an "expansion" (keep in mind we aren't one btw) team. Hue is a bad coach right now, he's an inexperienced head coach and, like a young player, can get better. At this rate he will be gone by the end of the season, he has to improve. If he miraculously survives posting another dismal record, he would be a fool not to hire an OC, not to consider divorcing Greg Williams, etc. There's always going to be gluttony of excuses about our roster talent when evaluating our coach, but we are one of the worst teams of all time right now. That's pretty inexcusable. Edit: One last point Your implication that fans had too high of expectations for this team is laughable. What should we have expected? To go 1-15 again? C'mon man. Edit x2: Sike last point for real if you think we don't have the roster talent to win games with or without Hue then you should certainly take more issue with the job Sashi is doing. He's had 2 offseasons, I'd accept bad but we don't even qualify as that right now. Edit x3 because I re-read your post and felt this needed to be addressed. McCourtney is playing really well right now, not sure why you scape goated one of the best players on our defense at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 On 10/2/2017 at 3:17 PM, Mind Character said: RIP Dennis Green ----------------------------------------------------- "The BROWNS are who we should've thought they were......now if you crowned them..then crown their a**.....but they are who we should've thought they were" I'm losing my mind... We're now at the part of the season where the media hot takes, sports radio pile on to my sports insanity where my terrible talented team already messes up my Sundays.... Mary Kay the Hack Cabot is writing articles about how us passing up on Deshaun Watson already means we blew it and is just like passing on Wentz and Trubisky for which we blew it as well..her logic and inability to do basic mental experiments like (what if the QBs switched teams...how would they fare?) really pains me... The rest of the cleveland.com, Akron Beacon Journal writers, ESPN cleveland pundits aren't much better (maybe a few are decent)...sports radio is worse.... Simply put...we do this every year...we don't pay attention to the relevant factors that lead to wins and losses; therefore, when we lose...we lose our sh** and spew up foolishness of the highest order out of frustration and surprise. Here's the truth that our optimism would not allow many of us to really see: We were never going to win this year, were likely to be the worst team in the league, and the way we were going to lose was going to be epic in how bad it was...(Rookie QB, zero WR talent, overmatched defense, complete roster inexperience, 1-15 last year). On defense we changed schemes but without Myles...every single player we had last year is the same excluding Jabrill Peppers(rookie), Jason Mccourty (the new Tramon Williams?), Trevon Coley/Ogunjobi (rookie's basically)...that change is not a major one.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This will most likely be one of a handful of final post until draft talk heats up in December as I just can't control myself from losing it on those with what I perceive are ridiculously awful takes, but before I go I wanted to start a thread whereby people could post their responses to some of the False Realities, False Certainties, False Beliefs, and Misperceptions that they are hearing from their fellow Browns fans, media, etc... So......What do you think fooled our fellow fans heading into the season where they thought things would be better? And...What are the false realities (bad/illogical takes) that you feel like Browns fans have when it comes to this season? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's my assessment......... 1. Misperception: Deshone Kizer's not the guy it's clear. We should've drafted Deshaun Watson and/or Wentz, it's clear the Browns blew it again. Quote My Reality: The Browns broke a long standing golden rule of the NFL, 'if you do not have a franchise QB, you draft one every chance you get, because you never know when you will get another opportunity' The last team to ignore this rule was the Miami Dolphins when they passed on Ryan and how has that worked out for them???? Reality: Deshaun Watson is playing outstanding; he really is...How would Deshone Kizer play if he played on the Texans right now with the highest paid WR in the league (sure handed combat catcher security blanket Nuk Hopkins), Will Fuller, Bruce Ellington (major playmaker now that he's been elevated to a starter), Braxton Miller, RB Lamar Miller?? I'd say Kizer on the Texans would've had similar success and the offense may even be more explosive in the deep passing game. If Deshaun Watson was on the Browns, we'd probably see the same results if not worse due to Watson's propensity to try to run more so than Kizer. Quote My Reality: QB's drafted in late round 1 or in round 2, have about a 6% chance of becoming a franchise QB, the failure rate is huge, so I think you are in dreamland if you think Kizer was ever going to be special in any circumstance. He is at best, a career backup QB and nothing more!!! 2. Misperception: If Hue only wins 3 games or less even though he has a bad roster he needs to be fired. Reality: WHAT??? We were an expansion team last year. We were an expansion team last year....this roster was going to take 3-4 years to rebuild in order to get back to some semblance of being able to compete and even then it was going to be plagued by inexperience and youth and thus not likely to be able to win/compete game to game. It's a players league...every "Hue's playcalling" take fails to understand there is no play call to beat a defense when the skill players don't make plays, are not scared by a RB, and are dealing with a rookie QB. Quote My Reality: I agree, Hue should not be held responsible for the mess that is the Browns. Maybe he stinks as a HC or maybe he will prove to be solid, but with our current roster, there is absolutely no way to tell. 3. Misperception: No matter what happens, we can get a true evaluation on Kizer as our guy and Hue as our coach.... Reality: The most disappointing thing about this season is that the talent and inexperience deficiency does not really allow us to get a true evaluation on Kizer, Hue, and the staff. Quote My Reality: On Hue, I agree, on Kizer, see above??? 4. Misperception: Coming into the year given our schedule this teams should win 4-7 games and should win/have the advantage to beat the Texans, Colts, Bengals, Jets, Jaguars, Chargers... Reality: We're not better talent-wise on offense OR on defense than any of these teams especially without Garrett. If you were paying attention to the relevant factors that lead to winning, you would not be shocked, appalled, and upset about how this season is going. In fact, you would've predicted that we would be the worst team in the league and/or top 3 worst teams in the league. The Texans, Colts, Bengals, Jets, Chargers, & Jaguars roster-wise (WR corps, RB corps, playmakers) are all substantially better than the Browns. Even the Jets' Ardarius Stewart, Jermaine Kearse, Robby Anderson would be WR1s for the Browns...and even Jeremy Kurley would all be 2deep contributer. Rookie QB with no playmaking talent on the outside and no RB1 force that scares a Defense. Youngest most inexperienced team in the league. Rookie starters everywhere does not translate to winning. Our defensive talent in terms of splash impact is worse than all of those teams. Pass rush without Garrett was always going to struggle and those of us hopeful about Ogbah but really watching his game knew that he does not with quick and would likely have to move inside. We do not have the impact S to clean things up in the backend as peppers is still a truer SS than a deep FS. Chargers---Bosa and Ingram...Jags---Jalen Ramsey, Calais Campbell, AJ Bouye, Malik Jackson, Myles Jack, Jets---Leonard Williams, Muhammed Wilkerson, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Texans---Watt, Clowney, Mercilus etc... Quote My Reality: We were never going to win 4 to 7 games with Kizer as our QB, it was just living in fantasy land. We will be lucky to win 2!!! 5. Misperception: Our CBs will surprise people this year Reality: CB room hype was based in misperception as Mccourty was one of the worst in the league (a lot worse than Haden based on analytics and play), Jamar Taylor only is good in zone but has terrible eyes and is not a strong boundary corner. BBC is a great role player but not lockdown impact boundary corner. Quote My Reality: Haden was probably released, because the FO sees no value in spending money since there is very little chance for success and the owner likely gave them a budget that required cuts!!! With Garrett's injury removed our pass rush and without a pass rush, CB's are left out to dry. 5. Misperception: We improved the OL; that should translate to wins Reality: Replacing Alex Mack and Mitchell Schwartz with JC Tretter, Shon Coleman, & Kevin Zeitler is not progress or an upgrade that should've been celebrated but instead just trying to fill holes we created and get back to the status quo. We didn't win when we had Alex Mack & Mitchell Schwartz b/c of the lack of talent at skill positions and on Defense. It may have made sense to not pay Mack and Schwartz due to wanting to rebuild; however, filling those glaring holes did not mean more wins. One of the main reasons for optimism for an improved record according to most was improvement on the offensive line. For me, this never really made much sense b/c a good OL just gives a QB a chance to make plays; however, if there are no playmakers or playes that can separate improved OL play is moot. Quote My Reality: See above RE: Haden You really have to wonder just how good our scouts are and our GM are, because, we are below average when it comes to drafting talent!!! We are just not finding enough talent beyond our 1st rounder??? 6. Misperception: Deshone Kizer has to show that he can win to be the guy... Reality: NO rookie QB wins without at least 1 impact WR1, talented WR core, and/or an impact player at RB. Our WR room is truly one of the worst we've ever had on the Browns as with Coleman out we're relying on 2 UFAs (Leslie, Kasen Williams); 2 later round guys that either can't catch, can't run routes, or can't separate (Ricardo Louis, Higgins); a stone hands poor route running vertical speed threat player traded for a turkey sandwhich by the Steelers (Sammie Coates); and a washed poor effort can't catch or separate player (Kenny Britt). Take a look at the rookie QBs W-L record and look at teams/talent that surrounded these rookies. You'll see that given our WR, RB talent we should've expected to be one of the worst Quote My Reality: Well, I agree that our offensive skill players pretty well stink, but I just do not think Kizer will ever be the Guy, even if he was surrounded by all the talent in the world!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Ima let Kizer prove you guys wrong. It'll take some talent around him or basically guys that can at least catch. If he gets that he'll be fine if he gets playmakers he'll be great. You cant judge him with Kenny Britt Ricordo Louis and Rashard Higgins as his starting receivers you just can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 IMO, we are going to have the 1st overall pick again and we will draft either Rosen or Darnold, we will then use our other top 2 or 3 picks to get WR's and a decent RB and the rest of our higher picks will be used to strengthen our OL. It will be almost a completely offensive draft with any defensive help left for the following season's draft. That's how you rebuild a franchise, you fix one side of the ball and get it up to snuff, then you go after the other side and fix it the best you can. After all, the defensive side already has Garrett to hold the fort till help arrives, a real game changer around which a tough defense can be built. I just hope our scouting department is up to the challenge and that our GM proves to be a wise drafter, otherwise all the picks in the world, will never solve our problems. IMO, if they follow this formula, they will become a real contender to be reckoned with, in about 3 years. If however, they pass on a QB and wait to see how Kizer develops, I will probably be writing a similar scenario for the next decade, if I live that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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