The Raider Depreciation Thread 📉

[Darbsk]

8 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Didn't Carr have another 4th quarter come back to win the game???

Sure did. He has his faults obviously but when we're down one score in the 4th I do have a confidence he'll drive us down the field to take the lead, its the D I worry about holding onto that lead.......... hopefully this year we'll take that long awaited step forward to at least respectability!

[drfrey13]

25 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Didn't Carr have another 4th quarter come back to win the game???

Yes but as a game manager.  He had one completed pass to a non RB and it was a rushing TD by Jacobs.  He made the right plays to get the win but that does not change if he was a game manager or not.  3 short passes to RBs and an 8 yard pass to a TE does not make you a gunslinger.  He did what he was suppose to do based upon the competition and I am enjoying the win.  What I am not doing is saying this proves he has overcome his poor play the past few years.  The real tests are still to come.  1 big one is this week and if the Saints shut Jacobs down then we will see more of what Carr has.

[Geezy]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

Yes but as a game manager.  He had one completed pass to a non RB and it was a rushing TD by Jacobs.  He made the right plays to get the win but that does not change if he was a game manager or not.  3 short passes to RBs and an 8 yard pass to a TE does not make you a gunslinger.  He did what he was suppose to do based upon the competition and I am enjoying the win.  What I am not doing is saying this proves he has overcome his poor play the past few years.  The real tests are still to come.  1 big one is this week and if the Saints shut Jacobs down then we will see more of what Carr has.

Brady is considered the GOAT by doing the exact same thing, at the end of the day its all about getting W's...

[drfrey13]

Just now, Geezy said:

Brady is considered the GOAT by doing the exact same thing, at the end of the day its all about getting W's...

When Brady needs to his game increases.  Last week was Carr doing just enough to get the win?  Maybe but for the past few years his play has shown he is not capable of elevating himself and the players around him to rise to the occasion.  He has the physical ability but I do not believe he has the mental make up for it.  I hope I am wrong but that is where I stand until he proves otherwise.  I always wanted to Brady on another team because I always questioned him being considered the GOAT.  Now you can say he is to old and make excuses for him.  Does not mean I think he is not one of the all time greats.  I just think he was a great QB in a great situation with a great coach.  

[Geezy]

31 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

When Brady needs to his game increases.  Last week was Carr doing just enough to get the win?  Maybe but for the past few years his play has shown he is not capable of elevating himself and the players around him to rise to the occasion.  He has the physical ability but I do not believe he has the mental make up for it.  I hope I am wrong but that is where I stand until he proves otherwise.  I always wanted to Brady on another team because I always questioned him being considered the GOAT.  Now you can say he is to old and make excuses for him.  Does not mean I think he is not one of the all time greats.  I just think he was a great QB in a great situation with a great coach.  

pretty much where i stand on Brady aswell.

I think Carr is capable with the right pieces around him. Only a few QBs in the league truly elevate their teams. Jackson, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson etc, i wouldnt put him in that tier, but plenty teams have won lots of games with guys that do just enough to win games, you can call them game managers or whatever but elite QB play isnt required to win in the NFL. 

[BackinBlack]

17 hours ago, BayRaider said:

2017 would like a word with you. 2017 and 2018 were definitely his worst years, and we are talking horrible. Not below average but horrible. Last year he played better but not still not good enough. 
 

Plus Carr has always been somewhat conservative by nature, even in 2015/2016. He just let loose like a cannon the 4th but was usually pretty conservative most of the game. 

well ill start with, last year if a "carr fan" even mentioned 2016 it was countered with stop living in the past blah blah blah. 2017 is now the same distance away as 2016 was last year, so your going to have to live with your own advice on that one. 2017 was the past. 
also, fun fact 2017 Derek Carr made the probowl . . . but that kinda shows that the pro bowl is a joke (whole other argument). 

Todd Downing I believe installed the live for another down philosophy into Carr, I remember a quote of Carr saying that before the season being what Todd has taught him most and thinking oh god. 

2018 our roster was a mess. After the first 3 weeks were we were winning at half time and ended up losing, the team lost faith. 

As one of Carrs biggest supporters, I agree that Id love to see him be more aggresive down the field with the ball though. I think/hope we will see that more depending on our opponents. With Car, we knew we just had to let jacobs do his thing. 

[BackinBlack]

17 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I would put more blame on Gruden if Carr performed well in 2017.  I still have to put a lot of that on the coaches.  As far as being a playoff team I still stick to my statement that he needs to be better to make it.  Carolina might be picking in the top ten again this year and they are definitely not as good now as they well be at the end of the year.  A team with that many new pieces and no off-season would never play up to their ability week one.  That was a good week 1 match up for us to get back into it but when we play the better teams we will have a very hard time if Carr produces those type of numbers.

 

I was calling for the bomb to Ruggs on the first play but I will settle for the 2nd.

haha i also was calling for the bomb to ruggs so very happy to see it early. back those dbs up!

Fair enough, i think we agree to an extent. 
If our O puts up 34 points every week we will be laughing. 
there will be weeks that Carrs *stats* will need to be a lot better to sniff anywhere close to 30 points. 
but against Car our O was rolling so no need to change anything during the game

[BayRaider]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

well ill start with, last year if a "carr fan" even mentioned 2016 it was countered with stop living in the past blah blah blah. 2017 is now the same distance away as 2016 was last year, so your going to have to live with your own advice on that one. 2017 was the past. 
also, fun fact 2017 Derek Carr made the probowl . . . but that kinda shows that the pro bowl is a joke (whole other argument). 

Todd Downing I believe installed the live for another down philosophy into Carr, I remember a quote of Carr saying that before the season being what Todd has taught him most and thinking oh god. 

2018 our roster was a mess. After the first 3 weeks were we were winning at half time and ended up losing, the team lost faith. 

As one of Carrs biggest supporters, I agree that Id love to see him be more aggresive down the field with the ball though. I think/hope we will see that more depending on our opponents. With Car, we knew we just had to let jacobs do his thing. 

The whole point though was you said Carr’s conservatism is because of Gruden which just simply isn’t true. 2017 he was beyond conservative. And 2014-2016 he was also very conservative, he just went from Bruce to The Hulk in the 4th QTR. Even in college the guy was ultra-conservative. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by BayRaider

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

haha i also was calling for the bomb to ruggs so very happy to see it early. back those dbs up!

Fair enough, i think we agree to an extent. 
If our O puts up 34 points every week we will be laughing. 
there will be weeks that Carrs *stats* will need to be a lot better to sniff anywhere close to 30 points. 
but against Car our O was rolling so no need to change anything during the game

Completely agree.  If he does what is needed to win more often I will be very happy.  My biggest issue with him is his overly conservative play when more risk is necessary and his situational awareness.   Sometimes those two are the same.  His play Sunday is what was needed so I have zero issue with how he played and was very happy.  This next week is where I want to see him elevate back to a top 10 QB because that is most likely what it is going to take to win.  Physically he is fine but there is going to come a time in the game where the game is going to start getting away from us.  At that moment I want to see if he switches from "play to live another day" to a since of urgency.  When we need a first down does he do what he did the last time we played the Saints.  Hopefully not that risky but accepting a higher level of risk to do what is needed.  What made Carr great in 2016 was he always answered back when we needed him.  He was clutch.

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

The whole point though was you said Carr’s conservatism is because of Gruden which just simply isn’t true. 2017 he was beyond conservative. And 2014-2016 he was also very conservative, he just went from Bruce to The Hulk in the 4th QTR. Even in college the guy was ultra-conservative. 

fair enough. I agree Carr can get way to conservative at times. 
his play not to lose tendencies work for well rounded/ good teams, but we have never had a team like that. 

in 2017/2018, we needed a gun slinger mentality, because most weeks we were going in as severe underdogs. 
this year though, htere will be games where all he needs to do, is not lose and we will win.

[NYRaider]

4 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Yes but as a game manager.  He had one completed pass to a non RB and it was a rushing TD by Jacobs.  He made the right plays to get the win but that does not change if he was a game manager or not. 

He was also playing with an injured Ruggs (who was basically a decoy in the 2nd half) and a third string RT. 

[BayRaider]

23 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Completely agree.  If he does what is needed to win more often I will be very happy.  My biggest issue with him is his overly conservative play when more risk is necessary and his situational awareness.   Sometimes those two are the same.  His play Sunday is what was needed so I have zero issue with how he played and was very happy.  This next week is where I want to see him elevate back to a top 10 QB because that is most likely what it is going to take to win.  Physically he is fine but there is going to come a time in the game where the game is going to start getting away from us.  At that moment I want to see if he switches from "play to live another day" to a since of urgency.  When we need a first down does he do what he did the last time we played the Saints.  Hopefully not that risky but accepting a higher level of risk to do what is needed.  What made Carr great in 2016 was he always answered back when we needed him.  He was clutch.

Basically agree with every sentence here. 

[BayRaider]

13 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

He was also playing with an injured Ruggs (who was basically a decoy in the 2nd half) and a third string RT. 

The OL was spectacular, third string RT or not. Carr faced the least amount of pressure of any QB in the NFL Week 1. As for Ruggs, he performed well, and hopefully gets healthier, but I hate injury excuses and always have. You can make them for all 32 QBs. It’s football, so many people are playing injured. It’s part of the game. 
 

Saints DL is very good, so Carr will see some pressure this week. And it won’t be the OL’s fault, Saints DL is just gonna get some pressure. Let’s see how Carr handles it.

Edited September 16, 2020 by BayRaider

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

The OL was spectacular, third string RT or not. Carr faced the least amount of pressure of any QB in the NFL Week 1. As for Ruggs, he performed well, and hopefully gets healthier, but I hate injury excuses and always have. You can make them for all 32 QBs. It’s football, so many people are playing injured. It’s part of the game. 

A part of no sacks or hits can also be attributed to how we didn't take any shots down the field once Brown/Young went out and Ruggs was hobbled. Hard to sack or hit the QB when he's getting the ball out almost immediately every play. 

[drfrey13]

There is no arguing that Carr played like a game manager.  The reason does not matter other than the game dictated that is what was needed to win.  I do not want Carr to be a gunslinger or a game manager.  I want him to be what the situation dictates.  No excuses.  Half the team could be hurt and the game dictates he raises his level of risk then he should do it.  His stats are meaningless except for his W/L record as a starting QB.  I am happy what he did because it was the right choice.  My only question is how well he adapts in the coming weeks because not all are going to play at Carolina's level.