The Raider Depreciation Thread 📉

[Jerry]

14 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

I stopped reading when I saw who posted. You clearly miss the point of all of it, but that's no surprise when you stop reading. 

Hooked on Phonics, bro. It'll help with reading comprehension.😉

Petty insults on a forum.  This is what happens when you fail to have an intelligent response.  It's all good.  I'll take the W and be omw.

[SilverNBlackFan]

12 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Player A: 41 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 8 TFL, 8 hurries, 9 QB hits 

Player B: 38 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 6 TFL, 5 hurries, 8 QB hits 

Ferrell's pass rush production is essentially identical to Quinnen Williams so far in their careers and no one is writing Williams off yet. Not to mention Williams was considered a can't miss prospect and was ranked higher than Ferrell by every team and media source. 

I don't think anybody here complaining about Ferrell is really hammering him over his lack of numbers. We all know numbers don't tell the whole story for young players. See Khalil Mack's rookie year where he only had 4 sacks, but everyone knew he was a dominant player in the making.

The most disturbing thing is you can literally watch an entire game and not even notice Ferrell played. He doesn't flash whatsoever. He doesn't even get "near sacks" like Arden Key. 

We knew his upside wasn't the highest but he was built up as the most pro ready DE in the draft besides Bosa. He's looks like a backup DE/DT tweener so far.

[NYRaider]

41 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

I don't think anybody here complaining about Ferrell is really hammering him over his lack of numbers. We all know numbers don't tell the whole story for young players. See Khalil Mack's rookie year where he only had 4 sacks, but everyone knew he was a dominant player in the making.

The most disturbing thing is you can literally watch an entire game and not even notice Ferrell played. He doesn't flash whatsoever. He doesn't even get "near sacks" like Arden Key. 

We knew his upside wasn't the highest but he was built up as the most pro ready DE in the draft besides Bosa. He's looks like a backup DE/DT tweener so far.

These are all similar things that were said about Cam Jordan early in his career as well though. I'm not saying Ferrell will go down the same awesome development path but there's still some hope. 

[ronjon1990]

13 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Would you have given up on Jordan, who was also a first round pick, after his first 17 games?

No. And here's where I'm willing to eat crow on it if it happens- my thing about loaded teams. Cam Jordan played on some pretty bad Cal teams. But FOR ME, Jordan flashed at times early on and clearly just had a learning curve to overcome that many young guys do. But, by my personal metrics, Jordan's talent was apparent and could be tapped if he truly wanted it. 

I'm glad you brought up Jordan though, because it reminded me of Marcus Davenport. Now, frankly, I never got the hype with Davenport to begin with. However, he does show that my theory is hardly 100% accurate. He fit the bill for "my type"- smaller school, best talent on the field, etc. I'd say it was too small of a program playing in a conference lacking talent, but I digress. I think Davenport winds up being a bust. 

Is Ferrell a Jordan or a Davenport? That admittedly remains to be seen. But Ferrell isn't just lacking in numbers, he's lacked an impact. He's been a ghost. The guy was a top 5 pick, yet the ONLY time his name was heard during a game we were actually playing well in was for a penalty. 

So to reiterate, no I wouldn't have been as quick to give up on Jordan because Jordan didn't come with the questions I had about Ferrell. Jordan was THE NFL talent on that Cal D. Ferrell, on the other hand, was one of how many? From my perspective, he hasn't shown that he just needs reps and time, he's showing to be fool's gold exposed. 

Like I said, I'll gladly eat a giant crow if Ferrell becomes something. I WANT him to, because I want the team to improve. But he hasn't, he isn't showing flashes otherwise, his value now, per Mayock himself is merely "leadership ability", and my antennas are going wild that he's just another guy elevated by the talent he played with and the opponents he played against. 

We all have our kinks when it comes to evaluating guys. Ferrell never did it for me and just hasn't shown any ability to even start foreplay. Jordan did. And that's all I've got for ya on it. Cheers bud.

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Jerry said:

Petty insults on a forum.  This is what happens when you fail to have an intelligent response.  It's all good.  I'll take the W and be omw.

Absolutely 100% correct. Petty insults do show a lack of intelligent response. It's why I offered you an out. Toodles 😘😉

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

No. And here's where I'm willing to eat crow on it if it happens- my thing about loaded teams. Cam Jordan played on some pretty bad Cal teams. But FOR ME, Jordan flashed at times early on and clearly just had a learning curve to overcome that many young guys do. But, by my personal metrics, Jordan's talent was apparent and could be tapped if he truly wanted it. 

Cam Jordan's rookie season: 31 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack, 4 QB hits, 59.3 pass rushing grade according to PFF. 

Clelin Ferrell's rookie season: 38 tackles, 8 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 8 QB hits, 60.1 pass rushing grade according to PFF. 

How did Jordan display more promise than Ferrell as a rookie when he was literally worse across the board from a production stand point? 

[ronjon1990]

19 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Cam Jordan's rookie season: 31 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack, 4 QB hits, 59.3 pass rushing grade according to PFF. 

Clelin Ferrell's rookie season: 38 tackles, 8 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 8 QB hits, 60.1 pass rushing grade according to PFF. 

How did Jordan display more promise than Ferrell as a rookie when he was literally worse across the board from a production stand point? 

By not box score scouting.

It's the on field play, not the stat line. 

Ruggs could end up with 20 catches for 200 yards and a lone TD, but we've seen he can demand coverage and get open downfield, thus I wouldn't call him a bust. Someone looking at the stat box, they would laugh that our rookie WR- the 1st off the board even- had such a horrid season. Those who watch can see the impact he makes/can make. 

That was evident with Jordan. It's not with Ferrell.

[reddevil]

4 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

By not box score scouting.

It's the on field play, not the stat line. 

Ruggs could end up with 20 catches for 200 yards and a lone TD, but we've seen he can demand coverage and get open downfield, thus I wouldn't call him a bust. Someone looking at the stat box, they would laugh that our rookie WR- the 1st off the board even- had such a horrid season. Those who watch can see the impact he makes/can make. 

That was evident with Jordan. It's not with Ferrell.

Was it? How many of Cam Jordan’s first 18 games did you watch? Not to call you out, but I think you’d need to have seen a lot to make that statement.
 

And I don’t disagree with your premise of eye test over stats and while I agree that Ferrell hasn’t shown anything so far and may get nowhere near Jordan in the future, I think the comparison is a fair one at this stage n their careers.

[ronjon1990]

32 minutes ago, reddevil said:

Was it? How many of Cam Jordan’s first 18 games did you watch? Not to call you out, but I think you’d need to have seen a lot to make that statement.
 

And I don’t disagree with your premise of eye test over stats and while I agree that Ferrell hasn’t shown anything so far and may get nowhere near Jordan in the future, I think the comparison is a fair one at this stage n their careers.

Quite a few. I lived on the Gulf Coast following Katrina until 2019 and spent most of it in New Orleans. If I was watching football at all, especially in person, it was (unfortunately) a Saints game. The Saints commentary on 105.3, WLOX, etc- all were constantly talking about Jordan's impact despite numbers for the games I didn't watch in person. 

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

That was evident with Jordan. It's not with Ferrell.

It was evident that Jordan had potential than Ferrell doesn't when he had 1/4th the pass rush production? 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1008155-ranking-the-top-50-rookies-of-the-2011-nfl-regular-season

Bleacher Report didn't even have Jordan ranked as a top 50 rookie. 

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[agarcia34]

I think it’s safe to say that Gruden probably shouldn’t listen to Rob M opinion on players from the Cowboys anymore. Collins has been more invisible than Ferrell. 
 

[BayRaider]

37 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

I think it’s safe to say that Gruden probably shouldn’t listen to Rob M opinion on players from the Cowboys anymore. Collins has been more invisible than Ferrell. 
 

Collins has been our worst DL for sure. I remember I got some shade when I said I didn’t like the signing.... he just really isn’t that good. Neither Hurst nor Collins should be anything more than a 3rd down situational pass rusher, and Hurst is much better than Collins in that role (though Hurst isn’t good either). 
 

I hope people will see why many fans have been calling for a 1st Round DT for 2 seasons now. Yet you got the “We don’t need a DT” crew every draft. 

[agarcia34]

Also E.Harris really had people on here believing in him cause Rivers through the ball directly to him on TNF.  
 

Dude has had 4 awful games and only on the Raiders where he would be a captain and start. 

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Also E.Harris really had people on here believing in him cause Rivers through the ball directly to him on TNF.  
 

Dude has had 4 awful games and only on the Raiders where he would be a captain and start. 

A completely dead-arm Rivers by the way. I wouldn’t say Rivers arm is dead right now, but it’s rather weak. However, once he gets to about 300 attempts, it’s going to be a dead arm again. Colts fans are in for a big surprise.