The offense is a Big Problem

[naptownskinsfan]

1 minute ago, lavar703 said:

Russel Wilson had Golden Tate, Sidney Rice, Doug Baldwin, Zach Miller and Marshawn Lynch. He also had Okung at LT and Max Unger at center. The situation Wilson walked into is not comparable to this one. Not to mention a generational defense giving him short fields and the ball back repeatedly. 
 

I don’t think some fans understand just how much the deck is stacked against Haskins success. Save for the DL, this may be one of the most talent deficient rosters the league has had in a long time.   

A lot of fans are in denial about the last part.  I'm honestly not sure how much of a difference Cooper and Hooper would make.  Lots of neglect to make up for things here.  

[lavar703]

6 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

A lot of fans are in denial about the last part.  I'm honestly not sure how much of a difference Cooper and Hooper would make.  Lots of neglect to make up for things here.  

The offensive line alone is dreadful. Christian, Martin and Schweitzer should be depth players, not starters. Our starting TE is Logan Thomas. I mean, let that set in. If something happens to Terry McLaurin then what? What is Haskins supposed to do when his starting pass catching talent is Dontrelle Inman, Steven Sims and Logan Thomas? Who is supposed to succeed with this roster? We cut our best RB right before the season started because apparently he didn’t fit what amounts to so far as a terrible system. 
 

Right now I feel like we’re in opposite world. For so long we just didn’t have a defense and now we have what appears the foundation of a good defense but the offense has no talent. Gibson and McLaurin is pretty much all we have. Sims is okay but I’m not really sure what he is? Haskins could very well be a part of the problem but how are you supposed to be able to tell? So yeah, let’s do this all over again with Lawrence, Fields or Lance and then wonder why they suck when the talent surrounding them is so bad. 

[ripsean21]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

The offensive line alone is dreadful. Christian, Martin and Schweitzer should be depth players, not starters. Our starting TE is Logan Thomas. I mean, let that set in. If something happens to Terry McLaurin then what? What is Haskins supposed to do when his starting pass catching talent is Dontrelle Inman, Steven Sims and Logan Thomas? Who is supposed to succeed with this roster? We cut our best RB right before the season started because apparently he didn’t fit what amounts to so far as a terrible system. 
 

Right now I feel like we’re in opposite world. For so long we just didn’t have a defense and now we have what appears the foundation of a good defense but the offense has no talent. Gibson and McLaurin is pretty much all we have. Sims is okay but I’m not really sure what he is? Haskins could very well be a part of the problem but how are you supposed to be able to tell? So yeah, let’s do this all over again with Lawrence, Fields or Lance and then wonder why they suck when the talent surrounding them is so bad. 

We can be a top 5 pick and Haskins can show what he needs to show. If you put the ball on a guys hands and he drops it check!!! You throw it a mile high that’s on you. You look controlled in the pocket and make the right decision throw it away show your in the driver seat. We know the level of talent we have success isn’t about being in shootouts. But it does mean having your feet still look plastered too the floor as you scan the field then you throw high because your mechanics are still just as ****ty as they were at OSU which sadly they still appear to be.
 

If he still is fundamentally flawed and can’t consistently throw catchable balls who cares if we have the NFC pro bowl roster we’re just masking him. I do expect each week for him to improve little parts of his game. He can throw checkdowns to backs instead of his skyscraper balls he throws a mile over inmans head 6 times a game because his feet looks like he’s facing the reciever instead of stepping into him. I get not having time but he will get graded on what is around him. But what he is missing that is there for him to hit is just as obvious as the noticeable talent handicap

Edited September 26, 2020 by ripsean21

[e16bball]

5 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

I want Haskins to grow up quick and take this team over and elevate this roster talent and become the guy. But he has to do it. Great players make others better and that is an evaluation. Russell made Seattle amazing with his legs and Lynch. He didn’t have a Terry and if used correctly throwing passes to Gibson could elevate the offense. Dwayne has to get the ball to these guys in position to make plays so if we take a QB high it’s because he did none of those things. But if he does we maybe still aren’t winning but we will be competing with this defense. If he does it then we’re going to get him a lot of help this offseason. This is a sink or shine opportunity it’s up to him to make something out of nothing

I agree that Dwayne needs to elevate his play. He is missing throws that he has to make as an NFL QB, on plays where he has enough time and has open players, and that’s fully on him. Can’t blame Rivera or Bruce or anyone else for those bad throws.

But he’s also got less chance to succeed than almost any other QB in the league. I’d say Sam Darnold (and I guess Josh Rosen, although I think a lot of that is just him) has been similarly hung out to dry, and it’s no shock that he and Haskins are again dueling for worst offense in the league in the early weeks of this season.

It’s just different when you draft a pocket passer. They don’t have the same ability to immediately compete like the guys who can run it and defend themselves in that way when the protection breaks down or no one is open. You have to make a larger commitment to surround them with quality players who they can lean on while they’re going through the long and difficult process of mastering the art of playing QB from the pocket in the NFL. It often takes them longer to click, but they can often get more out of good talent around them than other QBs. They just can’t do it on their own, not as young players at least, and it can get ugly when you ask them to.

[ripsean21]

46 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I agree that Dwayne needs to elevate his play. He is missing throws that he has to make as an NFL QB, on plays where he has enough time and has open players, and that’s fully on him. Can’t blame Rivera or Bruce or anyone else for those bad throws.

But he’s also got less chance to succeed than almost any other QB in the league. I’d say Sam Darnold (and I guess Josh Rosen, although I think a lot of that is just him) has been similarly hung out to dry, and it’s no shock that he and Haskins are again dueling for worst offense in the league in the early weeks of this season.

It’s just different when you draft a pocket passer. They don’t have the same ability to immediately compete like the guys who can run it and defend themselves in that way when the protection breaks down or no one is open. You have to make a larger commitment to surround them with quality players who they can lean on while they’re going through the long and difficult process of mastering the art of playing QB from the pocket in the NFL. It often takes them longer to click, but they can often get more out of good talent around them than other QBs. They just can’t do it on their own, not as young players at least, and it can get ugly when you ask them to.

No I get that but if your gonna be a pocket QB that can’t make those extra things happen then you absolutely can’t be missing what is there. I get it we are void of talent on that side of the ball. Watching Pitts, Cosimi and these guys playing today man they could be huge for Dwayne.

I understand this is a hard evaluation because what we have but we know what we have in the locker room and on the field come draft time. So there’s really no wrong way to go. We dip into this loaded OL class and we should really improve this team. This class of pass catchers at both WR and TE is amazing as well. But if we went any direction outside of Fields I’m okay as well because if they pull the trigger then the staff all had to fall in love and I believe Lawrence and Lance have those fall in love traits. 
 

Me personally my evaluation of Haskins will be done when the seasons done I’m not gonna ride the season roller coaster so coming into the year I would get him his help. But if we’re bad enough and he shows absolutely nothing beside game manager and we have a real shot at Trevor or Lance those are two guys I’m personally crazy about as prospects. But to date right now I still go BPA between Parsons and Sewell I get my LT. But this year man if we are high and we trade back to the 8-12 range man we could really get some picks and really influx OL talent TE and other value picks. Imagine having 5 selections in the first 3 with the positions that are going to be super loaded in this rounds this year. I know it’s a lot of speculation but moving back this year for us could be just what the dr ordered for this offense.

[ripsean21]

BTW Nap, Lavar, E while I’m really giving the other side too you guys; trust me you guys are making huge points!!! I completely agree but it’s actually nice to see our guys defend our QB ✊✊✊. I think we all really are hoping he can take some big steps against Cleveland because I think we all are hoping to draft OL and TE and dig into these awesome prospects and keep building.

[naptownskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

BTW Nap, Lavar, E while I’m really giving the other side too you guys; trust me you guys are making huge points!!! I completely agree but it’s actually nice to see our guys defend our QB ✊✊✊. I think we all really are hoping he can take some big steps against Cleveland because I think we all are hoping to draft OL and TE and dig into these awesome prospects and keep building.

This is also really hard to judge Haskins and everyone because of the covid off-season.  What we see from the halfway point to the end of the season is going to be critical in deciding the future of some of our talent.  The only guys I am comfortable making those decisions on right now are Geron Christian- he just looks so overmatched- and Troy Apke just doesn't have the reaction right now.  With reps, it is possible that he can read plays better but he's not a starting caliber FS right now.  

[ripsean21]

33 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

This is also really hard to judge Haskins and everyone because of the covid off-season.  What we see from the halfway point to the end of the season is going to be critical in deciding the future of some of our talent.  The only guys I am comfortable making those decisions on right now are Geron Christian- he just looks so overmatched- and Troy Apke just doesn't have the reaction right now.  With reps, it is possible that he can read plays better but he's not a starting caliber FS right now.  

I agree. I think Christian can be a solid backup but I’m not ready to finish on him but Apke has looked lost. FS has to just have instinct and he doesn’t. But that was what I wrote on my binder this year don’t let the first half lock in your position on guys. This offseason simply isn’t fair. But everyone has the same offseason.
 

But by the half way point we have to see the mistakes go down and we have to see some sort of control and tempo and grasp of what we atleast can execute with this group. Haskins hasn’t looked well. But for a guy I thought needed 2 or 3 years just to even fix his deficiencies In his mechanics with his feet being underneath him to be ready to unload the ball. I think he has what it mentally takes to correct every issue I think he has it all upstairs which is what I loved about him coming out. I really just hope he starts putting it together. I feel like he’s putting in work. I think it’s very clear Turner and he haven’t clicked yet like he started too last year at the end with play calls that got him in rythm early. 

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, ripsean21 said:

I agree. I think Christian can be a solid backup but I’m not ready to finish on him but Apke has looked lost. FS has to just have instinct and he doesn’t. But that was what I wrote on my binder this year don’t let the first half lock in your position on guys. This offseason simply isn’t fair. But everyone has the same offseason.
 

But by the half way point we have to see the mistakes go down and we have to see some sort of control and tempo and grasp of what we atleast can execute with this group. Haskins hasn’t looked well. But for a guy I thought needed 2 or 3 years just to even fix his deficiencies In his mechanics with his feet being underneath him to be ready to unload the ball. I think he has what it mentally takes to correct every issue I think he has it all upstairs which is what I loved about him coming out. I really just hope he starts putting it together. I feel like he’s putting in work. I think it’s very clear Turner and he haven’t clicked yet like he started too last year at the end with play calls that got him in rythm early. 

I’d just hate to see Haskins benched for Kyle Allen. I think you have to give him this season to see what you have and if he doesn’t progress we know we’re going QB in the top 10, potentially top 5. I just don’t think Rivera is that concerned about Haskins development. He’s not worried about being fired and Haskins wasn’t his draft pick. 

[naptownskinsfan]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

I’d just hate to see Haskins benched for Kyle Allen. I think you have to give him this season to see what you have and if he doesn’t progress we know we’re going QB in the top 10, potentially top 5. I just don’t think Rivera is that concerned about Haskins development. He’s not worried about being fired and Haskins wasn’t his draft pick. 

I do not want to see Allen either.  I hope he doesn't see the field unless it's due to injury, or a blowout in either direction.  If Haskins struggles and is replaced by Allen at any point, I would have to think that they weren't really serious about Haskins being the right fit. 

[ripsean21]

11 hours ago, lavar703 said:

I’d just hate to see Haskins benched for Kyle Allen. I think you have to give him this season to see what you have and if he doesn’t progress we know we’re going QB in the top 10, potentially top 5. I just don’t think Rivera is that concerned about Haskins development. He’s not worried about being fired and Haskins wasn’t his draft pick. 

Oh I’m with you and if we see Allen then I really have to question how much this sytaff actually tried to help Dwayne succeed.

[turtle28]

Should’ve kept Kevin O’Connell as many people wanted to do. Haskins was starting to develop well in that offense then we get an entire new system and the offense is trying to develop and gain chemistry during COVID all offseason.

But, that is what it is, can’t change that now. Growing pains are to be expected with this young team and especially this young offense. Haskins hasn’t played great, but they also aren’t running the ball with Gibson IMO. He’s averaging 5 ypc but only got 10 carries on Sunday. 
 

Haskins is showing flashes, but he needs to just throw to the open guy more, not lock onto his WR and try to force balls downfield. It seems at times he’s locking into something he is reading pre-snap instead of working through his progressions after the snap. I think he will get better though, he got better in last years offense as the season went on. 
 

I think this offense definitely needs more time and more development. I did like seeing Isaiah Wright out there, he made some plays. They definitely need to get the ball to Terry & S. Sims more IMO. Those guys, Gibson & McKissic can make plays when they get the ball in space.

It seems easy to me to get the ball go Terry & S. Sims on quick hitters and then they can break some ankles and gain 5 to 10 yards after the catch.

[turtle28]

On 9/26/2020 at 6:00 PM, ripsean21 said:

I agree. I think Christian can be a solid backup but I’m not ready to finish on him but Apke has looked lost. FS has to just have instinct and he doesn’t. But that was what I wrote on my binder this year don’t let the first half lock in your position on guys. This offseason simply isn’t fair. But everyone has the same offseason.
 

But by the half way point we have to see the mistakes go down and we have to see some sort of control and tempo and grasp of what we atleast can execute with this group. Haskins hasn’t looked well. But for a guy I thought needed 2 or 3 years just to even fix his deficiencies In his mechanics with his feet being underneath him to be ready to unload the ball. I think he has what it mentally takes to correct every issue I think he has it all upstairs which is what I loved about him coming out. I really just hope he starts putting it together. I feel like he’s putting in work. I think it’s very clear Turner and he haven’t clicked yet like he started too last year at the end with play calls that got him in rythm early. 

Agreed

[ripsean21]

24 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Agreed

Honestly turtle I keep breaking him down and you know it feels like he’s out there thinking instead of just letting the ball go. The reason I say that is when he has the time and the line does their job it might be the smallest thing but I’ve seen it for the last 6, 1/4’s when He misses and misses high it looks like he’s like pushing the ball almost like Rivers does out of his hand and he’s not fallowing through like he does when he’s on target. Feet are still a issue but their not as bad as they were at OSU or last season so when he is in rythm and he’s just playing you can tell his fundamentals were worked on this offseason. I mean given no preseason and the limited offseason I’m just going to chalk everything I’ve seen to date to his preseason. He has now put things on film he can work with Scott and the staff and even the players in practice to improve. 
 

This kid clearly has what it takes mentally in the sense of putting in the time and dedication and he has that it when the pressure is on him he shines. Now he has to find a way to transfer his hard work and prep into the 50% or so of his snaps where he’s clearly not just scanning the field and dropping back and playing. You can see him thinking on the field atleast that’s what I see. I think personally he will be better these next two weeks. Not because the comp is easier it isn’t. But I think he and Scott and Ron will iron some things out and he will hopefully just come out and play his game.

But all that said I know the last 2 years I’ve said over and over how great the options are in the draft at our weakest spots but man this TE class and WR class along with the endless OL talent man I really hope he does take control of this position because we could really put a lot around him this offseason with our cap and this draft class plus this years small school list for mid to late round guys who will outplay their draft selection man I’m excited for this crop. Hopefully Haskins shows what he has too so we can reward him this offseason.

[turtle28]