NBA Finals Thread v1: Lakers vs Heat

[BayRaider]

Miami in 3

[NYRaider]

I'm excited to see with what Spoelstra's game plan will be to slow the Lakers down. He has put on a master class coaching clinic so far this postseason with his rotation flexibility and defensive game plans. Against Indiana they went to a switch everything defense, against the Bucks they crowded the paint and really limited Giannis, and against the Celtics they incorporated a ton of zone looks and were able to slow them down. 

I'm assuming we'll see a mixture of the defense they used against the Bucks where they crowd the paint as well as some zone looks so that they can limit LeBron/AD's easy looks and force them to win the game by hitting jump shots. 

[BStanRamFan]

14 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Ehh. Again I think you put Bam on AD and let Crowder guard Howard/McGee and if they can beat you then so be it. 

Miami's zone has been impressive in the playoffs and they really slowed the Celtics offense down with it. And the Celtics are by far a better shooting team than the Lakers. If KCP or Danny Green are going to beat me, I'll live with it. The Lakers were 21st in 3P FG% and 23rd in 3P FG makes during the regular season. 

Superstars definitely win championships but I also think you're underestimating Butler and Bam. Butler is without a doubt a top 10-15 player in the league and based on how Bam has played in the bubble I think it's safe to say that he's also approaching top 20 status. None of those guys have been to the finals but Jimmy, Crowder, Iggy, and Dragic are all battle tested veterans that have been in the league for a long time. These NBA Finals are also significantly different than any Finals in the history of the sport because every game is played on a neutral court with no fans. Plus we've seen LeBron lose in the finals multiple times against well rounded teams that didn't necessarily have superstar talent at the top of their rotation. 

Erik Spolestra is also 3-0 in playoff series against Vogel and this is his 5th NBA Finals as a coach. As I said before the key to this series for Miami will be Butler/Bam playing like stars because if they can even given Miami 75% of what AD/LeBron give the Lakers, they'll have a very good chance to win the series because their supporting cast and offensive balance is way better than the Lakers. The Heat have 6 players averaging over double figures and all 6 of those guys have combined for like a total of 32 20+ point games. They have a bunch of weapons that can score. 

I can't argue with anyone you've layed out. On paper it checks out. I just can't see LeBron losing this series against an inferior opponent at this stage of his career.  And I agree this is definitely a different Finals atmosphere in the phsyical sense, but mentally it's still an NBA FInals with all the implications associated with that. And mentally, LeBron, Rondo, and Danny Green have been here many times over. 

The Celtics series is a tough barometer because they could only go 6 deep vs Miami. By the end of games they were flat out exhausted and couldn't close out. All the close games, Miami won as a result. Miami was able to go to a 7th guy in Iggy, which believe it or not makes a HUGE difference over the course of series when you're playing against 6. Especially when you're playing every other day.

LAL actually have 8-9 guys they can play on a regular basis in a series and it makes a world of difference for the 4th quarter of games and ability to use more fouls. After Herro/Iggy, you're pulling from Olynyk and Leonard like I said earlier and they're going to have to play regardless and will be eaten alive. Unless you want to put Kendrick Nunn on the floor after not playing in the Celtics series.

Spo is a top 5 coach in the league, but the record vs Vogel in the playoffs is irrelevant here. LeBron is running this team and it's not the Indiana Pacers.  The Heat have more talent with players 3-7, I'll concede that, but the Lakers have more experience 3-8 and I don't think the drop in talent is noticeable in these two groups. 

I just hope it's a good series. I respect the hell of out Miami and love watching them play. They're just running into the GOAT in his 10th Finals, the year Kobe died, after finish 2nd in MVP voting, and the best sidekick he's ever had....I can't see this ending any other way lol

[Oregon Ducks]

On 9/28/2020 at 12:12 AM, BayRaider said:

Lakers in 6. 
 

Rooting my butt off for the Heat though, fun team, and I can’t stand Lebron. That guy is dumb as rocks and also beyond c****. 
 

Probably just triggered like nine people. 
 

Peace!

Sounds like LeBron triggered you.

[BayRaider]

1 hour ago, Oregon Ducks said:

Sounds like LeBron triggered you.

You mean triggered a majority for over 10 years? Yes. A vast majority root for him to lose. Not like I’m sitting there screaming at my TV for him to lose though, if he wins it’s not a big deal. I just don’t like the guys personality and c**** demeanor. Has always rubbed me the wrong way. 

[Mox]

37 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You mean triggered a majority for over 10 years? Yes. A vast majority root for him to lose. Not like I’m sitting there screaming at my TV for him to lose though, if he wins it’s not a big deal. I just don’t like the guys personality and c**** demeanor. Has always rubbed me the wrong way. 

He was unlikeable in 2011, and I can definitely understand being annoyed with him the last two years. I don't really understand the argument between 2012 and 2018.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Bullet Club

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

I can't argue with anyone you've layed out. On paper it checks out. I just can't see LeBron losing this series against an inferior opponent at this stage of his career.  And I agree this is definitely a different Finals atmosphere in the phsyical sense, but mentally it's still an NBA FInals with all the implications associated with that. And mentally, LeBron, Rondo, and Danny Green have been here many times over. 

The Celtics series is a tough barometer because they could only go 6 deep vs Miami. By the end of games they were flat out exhausted and couldn't close out. All the close games, Miami won as a result. Miami was able to go to a 7th guy in Iggy, which believe it or not makes a HUGE difference over the course of series when you're playing against 6. Especially when you're playing every other day.

LAL actually have 8-9 guys they can play on a regular basis in a series and it makes a world of difference for the 4th quarter of games and ability to use more fouls. After Herro/Iggy, you're pulling from Olynyk and Leonard like I said earlier and they're going to have to play regardless and will be eaten alive. Unless you want to put Kendrick Nunn on the floor after not playing in the Celtics series.

Spo is a top 5 coach in the league, but the record vs Vogel in the playoffs is irrelevant here. LeBron is running this team and it's not the Indiana Pacers.  The Heat have more talent with players 3-7, I'll concede that, but the Lakers have more experience 3-8 and I don't think the drop in talent is noticeable in these two groups. 

I just hope it's a good series. I respect the hell of out Miami and love watching them play. They're just running into the GOAT in his 10th Finals, the year Kobe died, after finish 2nd in MVP voting, and the best sidekick he's ever had....I can't see this ending any other way lol

Mentally it's still the NBA Finals but it's completely different then playing in the Finals any other year with no home court advantage and no fans. Danny Green has played like crap in the playoffs this year and played like crap in the finals last year, he averaged 7 points on 39% FG and scored 0 points in game 6 when the Raptors won the series. This is Rondo's third time going to the Finals but he hasn't been there in a decade. Andre Iguodala has been to as many Finals as Green/Rondo combined, has been a Finals MVP, and is 3-1 against LeBron in the Finals. Not to mention this is Spo's 5th time going to the Finals as a head coach and he was also Miami's top assistant when they won it all with Wade/Shaq so he has been apart of 3 different championship teams. While Vogel has never coached in the Finals as a head coach or an assistant. 

And Boston had at least 2-3 guys off the bench play 10+ minutes in every game of the Miami series. 

The Lakers have had 10 guys play 100+ minutes in the playoffs and the Heat have had 9 guys play 100+ minutes in the playoffs plus Derrick Jones who was just under 100. Spo has just altered his rotation depending on the matchup. He'll probably have to play Olynyk in stretches but this is the NBA Finals, Bam is going to play 40 minutes a night and will always be matched up on AD. If guys like Howard or McGee are going to eat Olynyk alive so be it, they're averaging 10 points combined in the playoffs. Miami will almost certainly go with a Crowder-Bam front court and force McGee/Howard to beat them. Plus going small also negates some of the Lakers size when they're on defense because you can pull their bigs away from the paint. 

The Heat's 3-8 is definitely a lot more talented then the Lakers, by a wide margin. Iggy has as many Finals appearances as Rondo, Green, and Howard combined. While guys like Dragic, Crowder, and Olynyk have all been in the rotation on teams that have made deep playoff runs. 

Heat's 3-8: Dragic (20.9 ppg), Herro (16.5 ppg), Crowder (12.3 ppg), Robinson (11.3 ppg), Iggy (4.0 ppg), Olynyk (6.0 ppg)

Lakers 3-8: Kuzma (10.5 ppg), KCP (9.9 ppg), Rondo (9.1 ppg), Green (9.1 ppg), Howard (7.3 ppg), Caruso (6.6 ppg) 

Miami's 3-8 has 16 20+ point performances in the playoffs between them. The Lakers 3-8 has 1 20+ performance combined in the playoffs between them. 

[49er pride]

lakers in 4

[BStanRamFan]

17 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Mentally it's still the NBA Finals but it's completely different then playing in the Finals any other year with no home court advantage and no fans. Danny Green has played like crap in the playoffs this year and played like crap in the finals last year, he averaged 7 points on 39% FG and scored 0 points in game 6 when the Raptors won the series. This is Rondo's third time going to the Finals but he hasn't been there in a decade. Andre Iguodala has been to as many Finals as Green/Rondo combined, has been a Finals MVP, and is 3-1 against LeBron in the Finals. Not to mention this is Spo's 5th time going to the Finals as a head coach and he was also Miami's top assistant when they won it all with Wade/Shaq so he has been apart of 3 different championship teams. While Vogel has never coached in the Finals as a head coach or an assistant. 

And Boston had at least 2-3 guys off the bench play 10+ minutes in every game of the Miami series. 

The Lakers have had 10 guys play 100+ minutes in the playoffs and the Heat have had 9 guys play 100+ minutes in the playoffs plus Derrick Jones who was just under 100. Spo has just altered his rotation depending on the matchup. He'll probably have to play Olynyk in stretches but this is the NBA Finals, Bam is going to play 40 minutes a night and will always be matched up on AD. If guys like Howard or McGee are going to eat Olynyk alive so be it, they're averaging 10 points combined in the playoffs. Miami will almost certainly go with a Crowder-Bam front court and force McGee/Howard to beat them. Plus going small also negates some of the Lakers size when they're on defense because you can pull their bigs away from the paint. 

The Heat's 3-8 is definitely a lot more talented then the Lakers, by a wide margin. Iggy has as many Finals appearances as Rondo, Green, and Howard combined. While guys like Dragic, Crowder, and Olynyk have all been in the rotation on teams that have made deep playoff runs. 

Heat's 3-8: Dragic (20.9 ppg), Herro (16.5 ppg), Crowder (12.3 ppg), Robinson (11.3 ppg), Iggy (4.0 ppg), Olynyk (6.0 ppg)

Lakers 3-8: Kuzma (10.5 ppg), KCP (9.9 ppg), Rondo (9.1 ppg), Green (9.1 ppg), Howard (7.3 ppg), Caruso (6.6 ppg) 

Miami's 3-8 has 16 20+ point performances in the playoffs between them. The Lakers 3-8 has 1 20+ performance combined in the playoffs between them. 

Lakers in 5.

[NYRaider]

5 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

Lakers in 5.

How salty will you be if the Lakers lose? 

[BStanRamFan]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

How salty will you be if the Lakers lose? 

Pretty salty. Would be a big blow to LeBron's legacy. But on the flip side, I truly loved watching this Heat team this year.  I bet on them to win the East because I love their pieces and Spo is legitimately a top 5 coach in the league. Jimmy Butler finally getting the credit he deserves is awesome to see.

I just can't see the Lakers losing this series after going through the West the way that they did. I have not been this excited for a Finals since 2016 so should be fun. 

[RavensTillIDie]

On one hand, I love Kobe.

On the other hand, LeBron plays for the Lakers.

On the flip side, I love Jimmy Buckets and the Heat culture.

Then again, AD did leave my Pelicans.

Ugh, so conflicted. I just want to see some good basketball be played, but I guess if I had to choose a side, I would love for Jimmy Buckets to win his first ring. Probably my favorite player from a pure attitude standpoint since Brandon Roy. Kid deserves it.

[NYRaider]

51 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Pretty salty. Would be a big blow to LeBron's legacy. But on the flip side, I truly loved watching this Heat team this year.  I bet on them to win the East because I love their pieces and Spo is legitimately a top 5 coach in the league. Jimmy Butler finally getting the credit he deserves is awesome to see.

I just can't see the Lakers losing this series after going through the West the way that they did. I have not been this excited for a Finals since 2016 so should be fun. 

The Lakers and Heat were both 12-3 in the playoffs but the Heat had a much tougher road to the Finals. 

[BStanRamFan]

17 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The Lakers and Heat were both 12-3 in the playoffs but the Heat had a much tougher road to the Finals. 

Disagree with ya there.

Portland>Pacers

Houston=Bucks (until I see Giannis show me something, I can't give him the nod over Harden and Russ. Rest of the Bucks team was not good regardless of regular season success)

Nuggets>Boston. What Denver achieved in the playoffs this year was historic and they took down the favorites to win the title at the time. 

Funny, we bash the East for years when LeBron was there and now it was a tougher road to the FInals than the West? lol Can't make this stuff up.

 

[Oregon Ducks]

31 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The Lakers and Heat were both 12-3 in the playoffs but the Heat had a much tougher road to the Finals. 

Based on what?