2021 NFL Draft Thread

[e16bball]

Aside from Sermon, the MVP of this game for OSU is #76 for Northwestern. He forced the fumble from Ramsey on the last drive by slamming into him, and just ended this one by sacking Ramsey via accidental tripping. Never seen an OL do so much damage through inadvertently hitting his own QB.

Edited December 19, 2020 by e16bball

[ripsean21]

57 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Fields is not a first round pick.

I mean his talent is a first his QB play isn’t. If he’s there at our natural pick which is 0% chance I’d take him. But he won’t so luckily we don’t have to worry about it. He doesn’t protect himself head up on backers there’s no long term future with players like this because they can’t play QB well enough with a injured ankle they always risk shoulder injuries I just idk Turtle isn’t gonna like this but when I see Ohio St balling it’s their dominating run game. Amazing OL and super talented Backs. Fields for sure opens that up. I will say when fields does throw his outs and when he does look to pass he can thread it. But in the NFL he has to atleast needs to throw the ball half of the amount of plays I see him dipping out or he’s going to remain on your injury list

[ripsean21]

16 hours ago, e16bball said:

I think someone will definitely take a shot on him in that range, value-wise. 

For WFT, I personally not so much looking for size or contested catch ability in a prospect. We have three young guys on the roster already whose best traits are pretty much exactly that (Harmon, AGG, C. Sims). In fairness, I don’t value size in WRs as much as most people do, because I’m just a sucker for what speed and quickness can do in the modern game where they can’t put their hands on you. But regardless, I think we’ve got a nice stockpile of young big-bodied receivers. 

What I’m looking for is (shocker) quickness and speed, the ability to separate consistently and create the risk of YAC and big plays. What has really changed the nature of this offense over the last two seasons has been the addition of two guys in McLaurin and Gibson who change the game and the way teams have to defend us with their sub-4.4 speed. I want more of that, at least one other receiver who can be a threat to break one at any time. 

I love Waddle at 19 if he’s there. I love Rondale Moore in the 2nd if he’s there (or if we trade down, which I think might end up being wise at 19). And today I’ve been watching another guy who I really like in Amon-Ra St. Brown. 

I don't think he appears to have the really crazy high-end speed, but he does have a lot of quickness and he separates well, especially at the top of routes. I actually think he’ll be even more effective at the NFL level in that respect, as guys really tend to get their hands on him and be physical with him to take advantage of his slighter build under the more lax college DPI rules. The top reason I love watching him, though? Watch this kid block. It’s the damnedest thing I’ve ever seen. He’s giving up 20, 30, 50 pounds to some of these guys he’s blocking, but he’s on them like a rabid animal 😂 You‘ll need to clean some of it up to get him to be a little more consistent and efficient with his blocking, but the effort is A++. Overall, he’s got a little Tyler Boyd in him for me. 

I tend to value the shifty speedy route runners as well. But I like talent and value. Personally I love Toney. But we’ve talked about him I just like to throw new names out especially ones I feel are in the money mid rounds where there’s really no wrong pick if your drafting high toolbox guys. I love to gamble in the kids because round 1 and 2 I want dogs. I tend to go more safe like I want a guy who I think isn’t a scheme specific talent. I tend to stay away from the boom or busts early simply because they get you fired more often then they seem to hit. But I can see a Tyler Boyd. Especially because I think Boyd is a solid 2/3 which is what I think Williams is. 
 

I do completely agree with the point we need a shifty fast slot guy. Moore is a beast. I am slightly worried about his size but man he just flashes and his hands are gold. St. Brown is a stud!!! I mean personally we need guys that we can torch defenses over the middle with. Slot WR and TE with burst is a must in this draft for me. 

[Slappy Mc]

Dwayne Haskins, Troy Smith, Braxton Miller, J.T. Barrett and Justin Fields... all system QBs that are not successful NFL QBs.

[e16bball]

15 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Dwayne Haskins, Troy Smith, Braxton Miller, J.T. Barrett and Justin Fields... all system QBs that are not successful NFL QBs.

Can’t imagine how you felt about last year’s crop of QBs, coming from failed NFL QB factories like LSU, Alabama, and Oregon. Or Mayfield from that lineage of losers from Oklahoma.

I mean, I’m with you on this a little. I don’t care that it’s OSU, I just care that it’s a team with superior talent across the board. You can’t box score scout these kinda guys because it’s their overwhelming offensive unit that’s making it possible for them to put up these crazy numbers. It doesn’t give you any meaningful insight into how they’ll play at the NFL level, where their surrounding talent will be equal to (or often worse than) the opposition. 

But that’s true of 5 of the top 6 guys in this draft. Maybe all 6, given how weak BYU’s schedule has been. If you’re going to knock Fields for playing an easier game in a cushy situation because of the team he plays for, I think you have to do the same for Lawrence, Lance, Jones, and Trask too. Every one of those guys has superior talent around them, and they’re all throwing with plenty of time into wide open windows. 

[turtle28]

18 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Dwayne Haskins, Troy Smith, Braxton Miller, J.T. Barrett and Justin Fields... all system QBs that are not successful NFL QBs.

It's not the same system that they used to run. Troy Smith was a QB under the past coaching staff with Jim Tressel, that was about 15 years ago. Braxton Miller could never throw very well or accurately, his senior year he switched to WR after he hurt his shoulder as a junior and played WR. He was drafted to the Texans as a WR. JT Barrett played in Urban Meyer's system aka the Tim Tebow system which is zone read and run first. Barrett ran the ball as much or more than he threw the ball. 

Haskins is not a finished product, really as everyone has said that since he decided to come out, he should've played last year at Ohio State to develop more as a passer and to work on his pocket presence, his footwork and accuracy. 

The Ryan Day system is not the same system that Barrett and Braxton Miller played in, its not a zone read run first system. The comparison doesn't fit. 

Now, that being said of course there is no guarantee that Fields ends up being a good QB in the NFL. Just realize that the system Fields is in is not the same system that Troy Smith, Braxton Miller and JT Barrett were in. 

I just have to wonder, if Fields had stayed at Georgia but hadn't started until this year and had been 78%, for 300 yards plus a game and throwing for 3 TDs a game, would you be calling him a system QB?

[turtle28]

7 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Can’t imagine how you felt about last year’s crop of QBs, coming from failed NFL QB factories like LSU, Alabama, and Oregon. Or Mayfield from that lineage of losers from Oklahoma.

I mean, I’m with you on this a little. I don’t care that it’s OSU, I just care that it’s a team with superior talent across the board. You can’t box score scout these kinda guys because it’s their overwhelming offensive unit that’s making it possible for them to put up these crazy numbers. It doesn’t give you any meaningful insight into how they’ll play at the NFL level, where their surrounding talent will be equal to (or often worse than) the opposition. 

But that’s true of 5 of the top 6 guys in this draft. Maybe all 6, given how weak BYU’s schedule has been. If you’re going to knock Fields for playing an easier game in a cushy situation because of the team he plays for, I think you have to do the same for Lawrence, Lance, Jones, and Trask too. Every one of those guys has superior talent around them, and they’re all throwing with plenty of time into wide open windows. 

I mean Kyler Murray is a bust right just because he had played at OU? haha sure... 

[e16bball]

Man, Lawrence’s arm is pretty crazy. 40 yard throw on a line, and it damn near looked like it was still gathering speed when it almost ripped Rodgers’s hands off his wrists. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, ripsean21 said:

I mean his talent is a first his QB play isn’t. If he’s there at our natural pick which is 0% chance I’d take him. But he won’t so luckily we don’t have to worry about it. He doesn’t protect himself head up on backers there’s no long term future with players like this because they can’t play QB well enough with a injured ankle they always risk shoulder injuries I just idk Turtle isn’t gonna like this but when I see Ohio St balling it’s their dominating run game. Amazing OL and super talented Backs. Fields for sure opens that up. I will say when fields does throw his outs and when he does look to pass he can thread it. But in the NFL he has to at least needs to throw the ball half of the amount of plays I see him dipping out or he’s going to remain on your injury list

I'm fine with that analysis. Fields has a lot of developing to do. My cousin and I were talking about it when I last went home to visit family in Ohio, he's one of my two cousins who tried to walk on at Ohio State and ended up transferring to division II schools and playing QB for them because they didn't make it at OSU. I will say that OSU's line is amazing but, they don't always hold up vs the blitz, there are a lot of free runners at Fields when they play great defenses like they did today vs Northwestern and when they played Indiana and their great defense. It's a combination of things really. He has to get the ball out of his hands faster, I think that Ryan Day needs to have more hot reads and a shorter quick game passing attack for when Ohio State faces these great blitzing defenses, but Ryan Day doesn't adjust his game plan, that's not just on Fields, that's on Ryan Day too. Ohio State really doesn't have a quick game offense, its longer slower developing plays mid range to downfield and the QBs hold onto the ball too long waiting for those plays to develop as a result, Haskins had the same issue at times in 2019. I would also say that early on in games Ryan Day doesn't run the ball enough, or his play calling isn't balanced. That happened against Indiana too. They'd have success running the ball some, Fields would hit some open guys for chunk plays and then they'd get in the redzone and go three passes in a row with no moving of the pocket or roll outs for Fields and they wouldn't try to run the ball. Then, they'd get stuffed and have to kick a field goal. Also, that first int by the freshman safety from Northwestern was an absolutely amazing one handed int where he high pointed the ball away from Wilson with one hand, it's one of the most incredible interceptions I've seen in my life, hard to fault Fields because that guy made and incredible play on that int.

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Man, Lawrence’s arm is pretty crazy. 40 yard throw on a line, and it damn near looked like it was still gathering speed when it almost ripped Rodgers’s hands off his wrists. 

The only thing I worry about with him is going to the freakin Jets! I hope they don't ruin him how they ruined Darnold.

[ripsean21]

11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I'm fine with that analysis. Fields has a lot of developing to do. My cousin and I were talking about it when I last went home to visit family in Ohio, he's one of my two cousins who tried to walk on at Ohio State and ended up transferring to division II schools and playing QB for them because they didn't make it at OSU. I will say that OSU's line is amazing but, they don't always hold up vs the blitz, there are a lot of free runners at Fields when they play great defenses like they did today vs Northwestern and when they played Indiana and their great defense. It's a combination of things really. He has to get the ball out of his hands faster, I think that Ryan Day needs to have more hot reads and a shorter quick game passing attack for when Ohio State faces these great blitzing defenses, but Ryan Day doesn't adjust his game plan, that's not just on Fields, that's on Ryan Day too. Ohio State really doesn't have a quick game offense, its longer slower developing plays mid range to downfield and the QBs hold onto the ball too long waiting for those plays to develop as a result, Haskins had the same issue at times in 2019. I would also say that early on in games Ryan Day doesn't run the ball enough, or his play calling isn't balanced. That happened against Indiana too. They'd have success running the ball some, Fields would hit some open guys for chunk plays and then they'd get in the redzone and go three passes in a row with no moving of the pocket or roll outs for Fields and they wouldn't try to run the ball. Then, they'd get stuffed and have to kick a field goal. Also, that first int by the freshman safety from Northwestern was an absolutely amazing one handed int where he high pointed the ball away from Wilson with one hand, it's one of the most incredible interceptions I've seen in my life, hard to fault Fields because that guy made and incredible play on that int.

I give you everything about day!!! I fell in love with Herbert because Oregon did the same thing and never played to Herberts strengths. Fields threw 3 balls today that were NFL throws and drove them and I was like sheesh imagine if this whack job adjusted to throw outs and curl ups and out slants. I just don’t like the way they call plays and the fact they don’t have any of these combo sets that would really allow fields to work these defenses to see what he can do with his arm. Today I will not knock him they just don’t run smart plays as I felt once I really broke down Oregon last year and Herbert. Fields has flashed and I’m coming around to his tools.

I won’t blame a prospect when I watch the flow of a game and they just never gave him a chance to get going. That’s why I said if some out of world crazy situation happened I’d take him for us as you gotta trust your coaches to work with him and add pro style concepts. You know he has the flare but he can throw and he will sit late inside the pocket and it doesn’t seem like he’s reading slow I think he is just confident he will shake contact so he waits for the last second to bail!!! I don’t actually have too much bad about this game I tried to really watch him today I rarely live scout one game as I bouncy between a bunch and key certain units live. But I watched that game he can improve with coaching I see all the tools but he needs to protect himself

[ripsean21]

24 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Man, Lawrence’s arm is pretty crazy. 40 yard throw on a line, and it damn near looked like it was still gathering speed when it almost ripped Rodgers’s hands off his wrists. 

Yeah that was one of the prettiest throws he made the WR go get it so he couldn’t think himself into a drop beautiful throw

[turtle28]

18 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

I give you everything about day!!! I fell in love with Herbert because Oregon did the same thing and never played to Herberts strengths. Fields threw 3 balls today that were NFL throws and drove them and I was like sheesh imagine if this whack job adjusted to throw outs and curl ups and out slants. I just don’t like the way they call plays and the fact they don’t have any of these combo sets that would really allow fields to work these defenses to see what he can do with his arm. Today I will not knock him they just don’t run smart plays as I felt once I really broke down Oregon last year and Herbert. Fields has flashed and I’m coming around to his tools.

I won’t blame a prospect when I watch the flow of a game and they just never gave him a chance to get going. That’s why I said if some out of world crazy situation happened I’d take him for us as you gotta trust your coaches to work with him and add pro style concepts. You know he has the flare but he can throw and he will sit late inside the pocket and it doesn’t seem like he’s reading slow I think he is just confident he will shake contact so he waits for the last second to bail!!! I don’t actually have too much bad about this game I tried to really watch him today I rarely live scout one game as I bouncy between a bunch and key certain units live. But I watched that game he can improve with coaching I see all the tools but he needs to protect himself

[e16bball]

I’ve mentioned how fond I am of the ND freshman TE Mayer, who I think looks like a baby Gronk. 

But I’m wondering about the other ND TE, Tommy Tremble. One of the combinations I love in a TE prospect, based on guys who have taken a huge step up in the NFL, is timed speed and great blocking. This kid apparently ran a 4.63 as a high school senior, and the announcers fall all over themselves praising his ferocious blocking. There’s a guy on San Fran who came into the league with not much college production but had that combo of speed/blocking in spades. 

If we miss on Pitts in the 1st, which seems extremely likely barring a 3-game skid to end the season, perhaps a guy like Tremble or Jake Ferguson (Wisconsin) in the mid-rounds would prove to be a nice complement (and hopefully eventual successor) to Thomas. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by e16bball

[ripsean21]

26 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I’ve mentioned how fond I am of the ND freshman TE Mayer, who I think looks like a baby Gronk. 

But I’m wondering about the other ND TE, Tommy Tremble. One of the combinations I love in a TE prospect, based on guys who have taken a huge step up in the NFL, is timed speed and great blocking. This kid apparently ran a 4.63 as a high school senior, and the announcers fall all over themselves praising his ferocious blocking. There’s a guy on San Fran who came into the league with not much college production but had that combo of speed/blocking in spades. 

If we miss on Pitts in the 1st, which seems extremely likely barring a 3-game skid to end the season, perhaps a guy like Tremble or Jake Ferguson (Wisconsin) in the mid-rounds would prove to be a nice complement (and hopefully eventual successor) to Thomas. 

Yeah I think we’re playing ourselves out of the top 2 TE prospects. I do like him. Either way I’d probably double up in this draft at TE. Thomas is awesome but the fact we have Sprinkle on our roster tells me there is no competition at the position and even if we’re not getting a day one guy we have to do better to have a chance. The TE position I’ve said forever is a critical position to a teams success especially later in the year when it’s cold nobody likes tackling those big bulls. Their hard to cover and they just eat yards. I’m with you on this take as usual lol