The Jakobi Meyers thread

[Apparition]

As I said in the Jets GDT, I am NOT suggesting that his emergence in any way means that the Pats have solved their WR problems. But it does look like they've got something in this kid.

He's a polished route-runner who has shown some ability to get open downfield despite a lack of top-end speed (he ran a 4.63 at the Combine). His hands are above average (3 drops on 71 total targets through a season and a half) and his blocking seems to be improving, as evidenced by his work on DBird's long catch & run in the 4th quarter. Over a small sample size, he has grade of 84.1 on PFF, which places him 10th among all WRs. 

He also seems to have a really good relationship with Cam, who coached a 7-on-7 all-star team Meyers was on in high school. 

My view on Meyers is that, while he's not a WR1 on a good NFL team, he's absolutely the kind of player who thrives as a #2 when he draws winnable matchups, particularly out of the slot. If the Pats continue to shift him around the formation and find exploitable draws for him while keeping Byrd and Harry/Moncrief/Ford on the outside, he can definitely do what Edelman has done for the team, and be a solid chain-mover on 3rd & long. He also has enough of a size advantage over most slot corners at 6'2" to win the occasional 50/50 ball.

If the Pats can add someone who can stretch the field vertically and open up the underneath game for him, he could be a perennial 80/1000/5 guy. 

[Hunter2_1]

It does look like he can contribute, but I'm waiting for more data.

 

Take out last night's game (12 catches, 169 yards), he has 11 catches on the season, 125 yards.

So the one game on it's own is better than the rest of the season.

 

We need more data. But I'm hopeful

[Apparition]

36 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Take out last night's game (12 catches, 169 yards), he has 11 catches on the season, 125 yards.

 

6 for 59 last week, 4 for 60 the week before that. Also, it's not like he didn't contribute last year. He showed flashes in limited action (26/359). Just didn't have the trust of Brady and the coaching staff at that point. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Starless

[Deadpulse]

51 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

It does look like he can contribute, but I'm waiting for more data.

 

Take out last night's game (12 catches, 169 yards), he has 11 catches on the season, 125 yards.

So the one game on it's own is better than the rest of the season.

 

We need more data. But I'm hopeful

I would consider this:

7 11%

8 11%

7 10%

0 0%

0 0%

41 79%

64 98%

80 99%

 

Those are his snap counts so far this year. We run almost entirely 2 WR sets this year. With Byrd and Harry healthy, they are the two on the field with Julian coming in during a sub or a 3 WR package:

Damiere Byrd	56 88%	62 86%	66 96%	73 97%		55 96%	48 92%	65 100%	80 99%									505
N'Keal Harry	51 80%	61 85%	46 67%	57 76%		51 89%	11 21%	0 0%	0 0%									277
Julian Edelman	37 58%	52 72%	56 81%	46 61%		43 75%	31 60%											265

 

Its no coincidence that his snap count ballooned to 79% when Jules was ruled out and then 98/99% with out Harry playing. This being said, if you want to take out this one big performance I think you also have to take into heavy consideration that prior to week 7 he had almost no opportunities. Here is his last 3 games in which he was ACTUALLY on the field:

WEEK	OPP		oSNAP	RSH	YD	TD	TARG	REC	YD	TD	FumL
7	vs SF		41	1	2	0	6	4.0	60	0	0
8	at BUF		64	0	0	0	10	6.0	58	0	0
9	at NYJ		80	0	0	0	14	12.0	169	0	0

 

I think we can confidently say that when given the chance, Jakobi has taken advantage. 

[m haynes]

4 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

I would consider this:

7 11%

8 11%

7 10%

0 0%

0 0%

41 79%

64 98%

80 99%

 

Those are his snap counts so far this year. We run almost entirely 2 WR sets this year. With Byrd and Harry healthy, they are the two on the field with Julian coming in during a sub or a 3 WR package:

Damiere Byrd	56 88%	62 86%	66 96%	73 97%		55 96%	48 92%	65 100%	80 99%									505
N'Keal Harry	51 80%	61 85%	46 67%	57 76%		51 89%	11 21%	0 0%	0 0%									277
Julian Edelman	37 58%	52 72%	56 81%	46 61%		43 75%	31 60%											265

 

Its no coincidence that his snap count ballooned to 79% when Jules was ruled out and then 98/99% with out Harry playing. This being said, if you want to take out this one big performance I think you also have to take into heavy consideration that prior to week 7 he had almost no opportunities. Here is his last 3 games in which he was ACTUALLY on the field:

WEEK	OPP		oSNAP	RSH	YD	TD	TARG	REC	YD	TD	FumL
7	vs SF		41	1	2	0	6	4.0	60	0	0
8	at BUF		64	0	0	0	10	6.0	58	0	0
9	at NYJ		80	0	0	0	14	12.0	169	0	0

 

I think we can confidently say that when given the chance, Jakobi has taken advantage. 

That bring up the question who is making the decision, who plays? Clearly he's been the bright spot in the group when given the chance. It's so frustrating We all see it how come they don't.

[Deadpulse]

9 minutes ago, m haynes said:

That bring up the question who is making the decision, who plays? Clearly he's been the bright spot in the group when given the chance. It's so frustrating We all see it how come they don't.

Simple answer is that Jakobi is not a natural X or Y receiver. He is really a slot receiver who works in small spaces due to his quickness but lack of straight line speed. He was Edelman's back up. He also isnt the best or very effective in terms of blocking, which is important on a run first offense. 

[Crimmage]

What will be interesting is what happens when Harry is back .. you can't possibly limit Meyers snaps after these last couple games, right? Does Byrd take a reduced role to get Harry back in the lineup? Or does BB bench Harry and make him earn his spot back.. To start the season it's obvious that the team wanted to give Harry every chance to succeed given his draft status .. and probably wanted to pair Byrd with him instead of Meyers to avoid having 2 really slow WR's in the starting lineup. 

 

Hearing Cam speak about how Meyers used to be a QB makes a lot of sense for how he plays. He certainly isn't the fastest but especially against a zone defense he is smart enough to know where to go and just get open ( as opposed to Harry who doesn't). He lacks the speed or quickness of a player like Edelman.. but his smarts are right up there.. Meyers should 100% be in the lineup the rest of the year and could turn into an Edelman replacement if he can do well in the slot. No point bringing Edelman back this year after surgery.. let's see if Meyers can take the mantle. 

The team still needs speed on the outside.. but Meyers can certainly be successful long term on this team given how smart he is. 
 

[Apparition]

4 minutes ago, m haynes said:

That bring up the question who is making the decision, who plays? Clearly he's been the bright spot in the group when given the chance. It's so frustrating We all see it how come they don't.

Do you really think it was unreasonable for Byrd and Harry to be the top two guys on the WR depth chart to start the year? 

You can make a case that the team should be in more 3- and 4-wide sets. But they clearly came into the season with the mindset that they needed to give Harry reps because they needed to see him develop, and that Byrd, due to his skillset and familiarity with Cam, would be the X receiver, with Edelman in the slot, as usual. I see nothing wrong with that plan to start the year. I would argue that, had they been more agile in adjusting the offense to give Meyers more reps when the unit started sputtering, they could've won at least the Denver game. But they were clearly trying to play to what they perceived to be their strengths early on. 

The question now is, will they start using more 3- and 4-wide sets moving forward? And if not, then how will that affect playing time for Byrd and Harry? Because they'd be stupid to be taking Meyers off the field.

[Crimmage]

I have a feeling Harry is going to come back after the Baltimore game but be buried on the depth chart .. 10-15 snaps a game with the team forcing him to show something to get more reps. Unfortunately I don't think he has the mental fortitude to rise to the challenge and will just take what he can get. 

I worry that concussions will get in his head and he will be more and more worried to take hits ( I read that he apparently almost quit because he had multiple in college). He also doesn't seem to get angry from his poor performances and want to do everything possible to prove he can be a #1 receiver. I remember the interviews  of him saying he doesn't compare himself to the rest of his draft class.. and while that sounds like a professional answer.. I want my top WR to be angry he isn't the best in his class.. and be confident enough to tell people he's going to prove them wrong, etc etc. It still blows my mind that he was the pick from BB.. given how we always used to hear that he looks for football desire first and foremost.. Harry doesn't seem like a guy who will run through a wall to play football.. Meyers does.. which is why even though he lacks the talent, I think he can stick around in the league for a long time 

[Apparition]

4 minutes ago, Crimmage said:

I have a feeling Harry is going to come back after the Baltimore game but be buried on the depth chart .. 10-15 snaps a game with the team forcing him to show something to get more reps. Unfortunately I don't think he has the mental fortitude to rise to the challenge and will just take what he can get. 

I worry that concussions will get in his head and he will be more and more worried to take hits ( I read that he apparently almost quit because he had multiple in college). He also doesn't seem to get angry from his poor performances and want to do everything possible to prove he can be a #1 receiver. I remember the interviews  of him saying he doesn't compare himself to the rest of his draft class.. and while that sounds like a professional answer.. I want my top WR to be angry he isn't the best in his class.. and be confident enough to tell people he's going to prove them wrong, etc etc. It still blows my mind that he was the pick from BB.. given how we always used to hear that he looks for football desire first and foremost.. Harry doesn't seem like a guy who will run through a wall to play football.. Meyers does.. which is why even though he lacks the talent, I think he can stick around in the league for a long time 

What you say is such a perfect encapsulation of why Harry seems like such an odd pick for Belichick. His program has always been about picking guys who are firmly committed to football, but that doesn't appear to be the case with this guy. 

[Troy Brown]

7 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

It does look like he can contribute, but I'm waiting for more data.

 

Take out last night's game (12 catches, 169 yards), he has 11 catches on the season, 125 yards.

So the one game on it's own is better than the rest of the season.

 

We need more data. But I'm hopeful

It alllll starts somewhere

Unless he is that 1 RB against the Colts 6-7 years ago

[Deadpulse]

Just now, Troy Brown said:

It alllll starts somewhere

Unless he is that 1 RB against the Colts 6-7 years ago

Jonas Gray. You were thinking of Jonas Gray. Jonas Gray did that. 

[Troy Brown]

1 minute ago, Deadpulse said:

Jonas Gray. You were thinking of Jonas Gray. Jonas Gray did that. 

What an insane story

[jofos]

In years past I would say Meyers because the things he does well fit well in to the Patriots schemes, but I'm not sure the scheme going forward. For this year I don't think there is a choice but to keep Meyers on the field.  It may sound crazy but if Harry is healthy I would have Meyers, Byrd, and Harry on the field with no TE. Harry and Meyers aren't much of a drop off from the blocking of Izzo. Sure they can't block a DE but Izzo hasn't really shown that he can either. Sometimes just spreading the defense out is as good as blocking.

[m haynes]

3 hours ago, Starless said:

Do you really think it was unreasonable for Byrd and Harry to be the top two guys on the WR depth chart to start the year? 

You can make a case that the team should be in more 3- and 4-wide sets. But they clearly came into the season with the mindset that they needed to give Harry reps because they needed to see him develop, and that Byrd, due to his skillset and familiarity with Cam, would be the X receiver, with Edelman in the slot, as usual. I see nothing wrong with that plan to start the year. I would argue that, had they been more agile in adjusting the offense to give Meyers more reps when the unit started sputtering, they could've won at least the Denver game. But they were clearly trying to play to what they perceived to be their strengths early on. 

The question now is, will they start using more 3- and 4-wide sets moving forward? And if not, then how will that affect playing time for Byrd and Harry? Because they'd be stupid to be taking Meyers off the field.

I disagree completely. I don't care where a player was drafted. The best player plays.  I always heard that BB felt the same way. Harry has shown nothing. IMO he's a bust and Meyers has been the better player. I pretty sure everyone that watched him in his 1st year knew we could have something. Harry nothing, just excuses, "he was injured" , well this year he wasn't and still stunk. I'm amused when people try to justify his lack of skills needed to be a WR in the NFL.  I don't see BB putting a player out there to see if he develops. That would be done on the practice field. We are all Pats fans so it hard to admit that a player taken in the 1st RD can't play.