.Buzz Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, drew39k said: I didn't read all 10 pages so I'm not sure if anyone responded to this yet. My response would simple be, couldn't the exact opposite also happen? I.e the Jets draft Fields or Wilson and move on from Darnold. Field or Wilson end up flopping because the Jets failed to develop him and Darnold, finally free of the ineptitude of the Jets management, at only 23 becomes the franchise QB most believed he would be. It would be the single worst possible outcome out of all possibilities. Darnold has played 3 full seasons and shown nothing to think that. Bad situation or not, I have a hard time believing a QB that is "good" doesn't show a whole hell of a lot more than what he has. The Jets have an entirely new regime. The GM who drafted Darnold isn't there. Gase is about to be canned. Assuming JD and the new HC would do it the same way as the previous regime is unlikely to say the least. Any and every QB prospect can bust. Doesn't mean you don't take a swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QBIso Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 52 minutes ago, Starless said: Really? So you're in the "1 guy's presence will solve a million problems" camp? Uhhh no, but if you could have 1 player in the past 10+ years of drafts, Lawrence would be that guy. They’re losing out on a generational QB prospect. That is a huge letdown. Lawrence would have made them immediately respectable. They wouldn’t be good, but it’s a better start than...Fields? Sewell? Chase? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, QBIso said: Uhhh no, but if you could have 1 player in the past 10+ years of drafts, Lawrence would be that guy. They’re losing out on a generational QB prospect. That is a huge letdown. Lawrence would have made them immediately respectable. They wouldn’t be good, but it’s a better start than...Fields? Sewell? Chase? How many of the best QBs in the NFL right now were considered 'generational QB prospects'? How many of the 'generational QB prospects' to come out of the draft in the last 20-or-so years have won Super Bowls? Putting a rookie QB, even if he's an elite talent right out of the gate, on a team ridden with dysfunction from the ownership on down won't make them instantly respectable. It will make them the Chargers. Edited December 22, 2020 by Starless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Starless said: How many of the best QBs in the NFL right now were considered 'generational QB prospects'? How many of the 'generational QB prospects' to come out of the draft in the last 20-or-so years have won Super Bowls? I mean, we're talking about Luck and Elway as the two prospects people point to who have come in with similar evals. If we're going to knock Luck from taking a heaping trash can to an 11 win season and consistent playoff contenders despite an atrocious GM who got him killed every year... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Starless said: Wilson is 32 years old. Top QBs are routinely playing into their late 30s/early 40s nowadays. He's got at least 5-6 good years left, given his durability. True, but wouldn't you rather have 5 years of Trevor Lawrence on a rookie contract and also the players you could pick up from the massive deal you got in trading Wilson? That's what I'd do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 minute ago, .Buzz said: I mean, we're talking about Luck and Elway as the two prospects people point to who have come in with similar evals. If we're going to knock Luck from taking a heaping trash can to an 11 win season and consistent playoff contenders despite an atrocious GM who got him killed every year... It took 14 years, multiple roster overhauls and a coaching change for Elway to win a championship. I doubt the Jets have that kind of long game in mind right now. They're just trying to put together a competitive roster. The fact is that if you're looking for a QB to be your franchise savior, your whole mentality is flawed. I'm not saying you should view a QB as being the last piece of the puzzle for a title run. But I am saying that if your roster is a devoid of talent and your coaching staff is incompetent, adding a 'generational prospect' to that mix is far more likely to ruin him than to save the franchise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Starless said: It took 14 years, multiple roster overhauls and a coaching change for Elway to win a championship. I doubt the Jets have that kind of long game in mind right now. They're just trying to put together a competitive roster. The fact is that if you're looking for a QB to be your franchise savior, your whole mentality is flawed. I'm not saying you should view a QB as being the last piece of the puzzle for a title run. But I am saying that if your roster is a devoid of talent and your coaching staff is incompetent, adding a 'generational prospect' to that mix is far more likely to ruin him than to save the franchise. Getting a championship is great and all. But if you can have a top 5-10 QB that puts you on the map for 15 years and gives you a chance year in and year out (which is all you can ask for) than who cares? If they get a lesser QB but hit on other picks/build up really well around said QB that doesn't mean they'll win one either. The better QB, the better the chances to win one. Point blank. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Just now, Uncle Buck said: True, but wouldn't you rather have 5 years of Trevor Lawrence on a rookie contract and also the players you could pick up from the massive deal you got in trading Wilson? That's what I'd do. No. The NFL is far too volatile to take that deal unless you're 100% certain that the guy you're handing the reins to is the right guy. Montana to Young Bledsoe to Brady Favre to Rodgers Those are the only times in recent memory where an incumbent veteran QB with a track record of success was traded away. Young had multiple years of quality play in relief of Montana. Brady won a Super Bowl. Rodgers spent 3 years learning behind Favre. The teams that made these moves could be reasonably sure that they could maintain a stable environment for long-term success. You can't get that with a rookie, no matter how lauded he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Getting a championship is great and all. But if you can have a top 5-10 QB that puts you on the map for 15 years and gives you a chance year in and year out (which is all you can ask for) than who cares? If they get a lesser QB but hit on other picks/build up really well around said QB that doesn't mean they'll win one either. The better QB, the better the chances to win one. Point blank. What is the Los Angeles Chargers' current record? What is the goal of a professional football franchise? Edited December 22, 2020 by Starless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Just now, Starless said: No. The NFL is far too volatile to take that deal unless you're 100% certain that the guy you're handing the reins to is the right guy. Montana to Young Bledsoe to Brady Favre to Rodgers Those are the only times in recent memory where an incumbent veteran QB with a track record of success was traded away. Young had multiple years of quality play in relief of Montana. Brady won a Super Bowl. Rodgers spent 3 years learning behind Favre. The teams that made these moves could be reasonably sure that they could maintain a stable environment for long-term success. You can't get that with a rookie, no matter how lauded he is. I'd be willing to take the chance with Trevor. It's not like Wilson or Rodgers are Tom Brady. They both only have one Super Bowl win. If you could theoretically get a young prospect and a bevy of 1st and 2nd round picks to go along with him, I'd be willing to take the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: I'd be willing to take the chance with Trevor. It's not like Wilson or Rodgers are Tom Brady. They both only have one Super Bowl win. If you could theoretically get a young prospect and a bevy of 1st and 2nd round picks to go along with him, I'd be willing to take the chance. The fact that you, as a Vikings fan, are saying this makes me question your relationship with reality. No offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Starless said: What is the Los Angeles Chargers' current record? What is the goal of a professional football franchise? What does the Chargers have to do with anything? They have a rookie QB, of course they're not on the thick of it. Funny thing is if not for a ton of meltdowns by their coaching staff they'd probably being the thick of it because of Herbert. The goal of a professional franchise is win it all, and do it consistently. The greatest equalizer in that (and all of pro sports) is the QB position. Get the best QB possible, your odds go up. This isn't hard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Starless said: The fact that you, as a Vikings fan, are saying this makes me question your relationship with reality. No offense. No problem. I'm just trying to think what would give my team an opportunity for multiple Super Bowl wins. This just seems like a way to keep the window open for a lot longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 Just now, .Buzz said: What does the Chargers have to do with anything? They have a rookie QB, of course they're not on the thick of it. Funny thing is if not for a ton of meltdowns by their coaching staff they'd be probably a game out of it because of Herbert. The goal of a professional franchise is win it all, and do it consistently. The greatest equalizer in that (and all of pro sports) is the QB position. This isn't hard. And that doesn't suggest that maybe putting a rookie QB, no matter how good, on a team that's fundamentally broken on every other level isn't going to particularly help that team? For an even better example, look at the Texans. Deshaun Watson is, without a doubt, one of the 4 or 5 best QBs in the NFL, yet the team has 4 wins this year because the organization is a dumpster fire from the top down. The Jets have a bad roster, bad coaching, a bad front office, and bad ownership. If you put Trevor Lawrence on that team without fixing at least 3 of those issues, then he's another Justin Herbert or Deshaun Watson, putting up great numbers on a team that's not going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Starless said: And that doesn't suggest that maybe putting a rookie QB, no matter how good, on a team that's fundamentally broken on every other level isn't going to particularly help that team? For an even better example, look at the Texans. Deshaun Watson is, without a doubt, one of the 4 or 5 best QBs in the NFL, yet the team has 4 wins this year because the organization is a dumpster fire from the top down. The Jets have a bad roster, bad coaching, a bad front office, and bad ownership. If you put Trevor Lawrence on that team without fixing at least 3 of those issues, then he's another Justin Herbert or Deshaun Watson, putting up great numbers on a team that's not going anywhere. So what's the alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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