The New York Jets

[Awsi Dooger]

15 hours ago, JJ6 said:

Easily the worst "win"" in NFL history.

At this point in the year it's completely unacceptable to win that game. Obviously the players will not throw the game so bench you starters so the backups can get "experience". Do you whatever you have to do to put yourself in the worst position to win that game. 

To let yourself lose out on an ELITE QB prospect win an absolute meaningless game is just sad and pathetic. I could not imagine being a JETS fan. Just pure incompetence by a trash organization. 

Agreed. I'm older than most here and no question that was the most colossally ignorant victory I have ever seen. All of the posts spotlighting what might happen are laughable. Sure, Lawrence could bust and somebody from the 5th round become a legendary quarterback. Meaningless. I spent 24 years in Las Vegas betting on sports. The goal every day is to do all the legwork so that you get the best number possible on every game, to squeeze that extra few percent instead of sacrificing the few percent. That's what the Jets had in their grasp and they threw it away. They had potentially a decade or more worth of margin for error via one acquisition alone. Get the rights to Trevor Lawrence and all of a sudden you don't have to be as good at linebacker or cornerback or anywhere else. Head coaching candidates who wouldn't consider you otherwise are now eager to align. The positive ramifications are everywhere, to the point the current roster is essentially trivial.

It is astonishing the Jets didn't grasp as much. Another poster described it perfectly...that it's the reason you can't keep Adam Gase as head coach down the stretch. He's gone so he's trying to win to save face. The Jets badly needly the biggest dunce on the staff to be running the team. Heck, I would have signed somebody like Malik Rosier and installed him at quarterback. Anything to lock up Trevor Lawrence.

Lawrence is right up there with Elway and Luck as prospects who have been projected as the certain number one pick for years. Beyond that I'd say Peyton Manning and Jim Plunkett were second tier in the same category. 

And it's not like this was distant memory. All the Jets had to do was watch Clemson versus Notre Dame one day earlier. The Irish controlled matters early. Then one dagger from Lawrence changed things immediately and it turned into a rout.

But let's give that away so we can go 1-15 and have Justin Fields...or whomever.

Sheer brilliance

It is sad for the league, IMO. I am a Dolphins fan but the Jets for decades were my second favorite team, largely because I attended Super Bowl III and will always savor that memory, and the surge of pride in Miami and every AFL city. Younger fans and especially the pathetic Dolphin fans who froth hatred at the Jets like to pretend that game and that reaction never happened. Sorry, it most certainly did. My elementary school teacher in Miami led a Monday cheer for the Jets. We were all pretending to be Namath or Maynard or Sauer or Snell or Boozer in PE class. Then during the '70s Miami's hatred divisional rival was always the Colts, not the Jets.

It would have been fantastic for the league to have a marquee quarterback with the Jets again, and the hype of Allen, Tua and Lawrence in the same division, and now Belichick pondering how to counter.

Such a waste it looks like it won't play out that way. Kind of ironic that the NBA instituted the draft lottery because centers could completely transform a franchise and potentially dominate the league in that era. Now that aspect is gone and quarterbacks are more valuable than ever in the NFL, yet somehow the New York Jets either weren't paying attention or didn't care.

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Awsi Dooger

[WizeGuy]

A pretty demoralizing win for a fan base that has gone through some trying times lately. I cannot believe a team may not get 1st overall while going 1-15. There's still a couple of weeks left, though. We just saw the Bengals whoop the Steelers. Honestly, I think the Jets have a better chance against the Pats than the Jags have against either the Bears or Colts. 

[RUGmen]

The Jets need to decide whether Fields is their guy. If so, you take it him.

If you don’t think he is, than keeping Darnold with a new HC, hopefully better players would likely be the better option than signing some stop gap. You can always reach on a QB in the later rounds. If Darnold still sucks, then his contract is up and you are likely picking in the top 5 next season again.

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

18 hours ago, JJ6 said:

Did you not read my post? 

I clearly said that the Jets organization should have made moves to ensure that the worst talent is on the field. That could come from the top. It has nothing to do with the players. 

If they benched their entire roster in order to lose and get a draft pick they’d better have 53+ draft picks for new players next year on the active because you’ve completely lost EVERYONE in the locker room (including that beast left tackle you just got). What kind of a loser culture would you build in your franchise? Not to mention that would be a total black eye on the entire NFL

this take is hilarious. You guys seem to think this is a video game with fake players and coaches, not real people with minds and emotions. Could you imagine the post game press conference?!

”yeah we benched our team so we could draft this tall college kid. Oh those grown men who want to keep their jobs? Yeah they might kill me but at least we made some clueless internet people happy. But don’t worry we still expect Mekhi Becton and Denzel Mims to give their all and leave their bodies and long term health on the line for this franchise that made them losers and a laughing stock on purpose by benching them for scrubs”. 

Trevor Lawrence ain’t playing for a team that loses on purpose. What happens if he struggles? For all he knows they are just going to tank again and ruin his career and development in a deja vu ? That’s not the foundation for a successful dynamic. Hello first overall pick hold out

Every other team in the league would openly bad mouth anyone who pulled this move and tell their GMs to refuse to do business with them. Good luck EVER signing a free agent again when you bench your good players who want stats and accolades for their MONEY knowing you’ll just deactivate them for some scrub to get a rookie next year. 

The old boys club demands you play to win. this take is spare parts. You do realize the NFL consists of real people battling for their employment right? These people aren’t just the toys of the Internet galaxy brain brigade.

i have nothing but respect for those Jets players. They’ve got nothing but trash all year and they beat a GOOD TEAM. Good for them. That’s football. The draft is for the offseason.

Edited December 22, 2020 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[pwny]

16 hours ago, Starless said:

How many of the best QBs in the NFL right now were considered 'generational QB prospects'?

How many of the 'generational QB prospects' to come out of the draft in the last 20-or-so years have won Super Bowls?
Putting a rookie QB, even if he's an elite talent right out of the gate, on a team ridden with dysfunction from the ownership on down won't make them instantly respectable. It will make them the Chargers. 

I mean there’s really only been three generational QB prospects to play during my lifetime; Elway, Manning and Luck. All of them panned out as franchise guys who helped their teams become stable entities while they were able to play. 

So yeah, a lot of the top QBs in the league right now weren’t generational talents, but that’s because it’s hard to fill up a top ten with players from a group of zero. Sure, you can find a Mahomes at pick 10, but you could also get a Blaine Gabbert there too. 

[Apparition]

3 minutes ago, pwny said:

I mean there’s really only been three generational QB prospects to play during my lifetime; Elway, Manning and Luck. All of them panned out as franchise guys who helped their teams become stable entities while they were able to play. 

So yeah, a lot of the top QBs in the league right now weren’t generational talents, but that’s because it’s hard to fill up a top ten with players from a group of zero. Sure, you can find a Mahomes at pick 10, but you could also get a Blaine Gabbert there too. 

Yeah, but as with any other high pick, a guy is most likely to fall somewhere between those two extremes. You're just as likely to get a Sam Bradford or David Carr at pick 1 as you are a Peyton manning or Andrew Luck.

[soflbillsfan]

22 hours ago, .Buzz said:

If a team is picking top 5, there's going to be issues on that roster. The Jets have a second 1st round pick as well as the rest of the draft and loads of cap space. They also have a couple decent receivers and what looks to be a franchise LT. They're not barren cupboards there even if they need help.

This doesn't even get into the whole point of Darnold still being under contract next year. No one is forcing them to deal him for a mid round pick and trot the rookie out right away.

So why cant the Jets go this route, where the HC builds a team around Darnold with the picks they currently have and land stud players with those early on picks. If Darnold is a huge reason of being bad then you clearly have a good pick in 2022 in which they can land a top qb then and have these stud players from 2021 draft to add to 2022 draft for this qb. It will come down to who the HC. Jets have some options take a qb at 2, stay at 2 land the best olineman or wr, trade to a desperate team needing a qb and grab ton of picks stick with darnold and then go all in on 2022. It will be interesting though.

[.Buzz]

9 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

So why cant the Jets go this route, where the HC builds a team around Darnold with the picks they currently have and land stud players with those early on picks. If Darnold is a huge reason of being bad then you clearly have a good pick in 2022 in which they can land a top qb then and have these stud players from 2021 draft to add to 2022 draft for this qb. It will come down to who the HC. Jets have some options take a qb at 2, stay at 2 land the best olineman or wr, trade to a desperate team needing a qb and grab ton of picks stick with darnold and then go all in on 2022. It will be interesting though.

Because what if they luck into 5-6 wins and pick 8 instead of top 3? Then what? You reach for a lesser prospect or trade a huge haul to move up and get a guy (that's only if a team picking that high doesn't have a QB need of their own)? 

If you have Fields or Wilson as a franchise level talent and pass while trotting out Darnold who has shown no signs of being a legit QB in this league in 3 years you deserve to stay bad.

[pwny]

3 minutes ago, Starless said:

Yeah, but as with any other high pick, a guy is most likely to fall somewhere between those two extremes. You're just as likely to get a Sam Bradford or David Carr at pick 1 as you are a Peyton manning or Andrew Luck.

I mean sure, if you’re just going to lump all #1 picks together as being from the same pool. But the argument is that the generational talent QBs, of which Lawrence is the 4th of the last 40 years, are so good and so well developed don’t have the concerns that guys like David Carr and Bradford have. You’re putting this guy in a different class where he compares to Manning, Luck and Elway, not to the other QBs who just happened to go #1 because they were the best QB that year.
 

It’s a group that’s a perfect 3/3 on becoming franchise altering type guys. Guys like Fields are going to be in the group that has a floor of Bradford or Carr situations when surrounded by garbage, whereas Luck is the perceived floor for how Lawrence’s career could unfold with just trash around him and setting him up to be ruined. 

[JJ6]

3 hours ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

If they benched their entire roster in order to lose and get a draft pick they’d better have 53+ draft picks for new players next year on the active because you’ve completely lost EVERYONE in the locker room (including that beast left tackle you just got). What kind of a loser culture would you build in your franchise? Not to mention that would be a total black eye on the entire NFL

this take is hilarious. You guys seem to think this is a video game with fake players and coaches, not real people with minds and emotions. Could you imagine the post game press conference?!

”yeah we benched our team so we could draft this tall college kid. Oh those grown men who want to keep their jobs? Yeah they might kill me but at least we made some clueless internet people happy. But don’t worry we still expect Mekhi Becton and Denzel Mims to give their all and leave their bodies and long term health on the line for this franchise that made them losers and a laughing stock on purpose by benching them for scrubs”. 

Trevor Lawrence ain’t playing for a team that loses on purpose. What happens if he struggles? For all he knows they are just going to tank again and ruin his career and development in a deja vu ? That’s not the foundation for a successful dynamic. Hello first overall pick hold out

Every other team in the league would openly bad mouth anyone who pulled this move and tell their GMs to refuse to do business with them. Good luck EVER signing a free agent again when you bench your good players who want stats and accolades for their MONEY knowing you’ll just deactivate them for some scrub to get a rookie next year. 

The old boys club demands you play to win. this take is spare parts. You do realize the NFL consists of real people battling for their employment right? These people aren’t just the toys of the Internet galaxy brain brigade.

i have nothing but respect for those Jets players. They’ve got nothing but trash all year and they beat a GOOD TEAM. Good for them. That’s football. The draft is for the offseason.

Firstly you wouldn't have to bench Becton or Mims. Keep your young guys in if you really want to and bench other starters. Just find a way to put yourself in an even worse position to win that game. If it meant firing your coaching staff a few games earlier do whatever it takes to not win a game. It's simple. 

Hypothetically even if they did bench guys like Becton and Mims the bolded parts are just absolutely hilarious. Complete fantasy land you live in. 

Yes I'm sure Mims and Becton are going to demand a trade if they got benched for a game of two at the end of the year for an absolutely stud QB.

This amazing year Mims is having catching passes from Darnold is really going piss him off when he sees Lawrence in camp. 

I'm sure all these FAs killing to go to the Jets to be apart of a 1-15 team with no QB would now pass that up because a franchise QB is now there. 

Players aren't dumb. A Lawrence lead Jets lead is wayyyyy more attractive than a Darnold lead one. 

Lastly, who cares about your respect. It means nothing. The Jets just passed up on something that actually matters. An all time great QB prospect.

Edited December 22, 2020 by JJ6

[pwny]

2 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

So why cant the Jets go this route, where the HC builds a team around Darnold with the picks they currently have and land stud players with those early on picks. If Darnold is a huge reason of being bad then you clearly have a good pick in 2022 in which they can land a top qb then and have these stud players from 2021 draft to add to 2022 draft for this qb. It will come down to who the HC. Jets have some options take a qb at 2, stay at 2 land the best olineman or wr, trade to a desperate team needing a qb and grab ton of picks stick with darnold and then go all in on 2022. It will be interesting though.

Because when you do this, you become the Jacksonville Jaguars. “They should just build around Bortles” and then you end up not being in position to get a QB, and then that talent you acquired pushed their way out, and you end up back being a dumpster fire 4 years later. 

[NJerseypaint]

2 hours ago, JJ6 said:

Firstly you wouldn't have to bench Becton or Mims. Keep your young guys in if you really want to and bench other starters. Just find a way to put yourself in an even worse position to win that game. If it meant firing your coaching staff a few games earlier do whatever it takes to not win a game. It's simple. 

Hypothetically even if they did bench guys like Becton and Mims the bolded parts are just absolutely hilarious. Complete fantasy land you live in. 

Yes I'm sure Mims and Becton are going to demand a trade if they got benched for a game of two at the end of the year for an absolutely stud QB.

This amazing year Mims is having catching passes from Darnold is really going piss him off when he sees Lawrence in camp. 

I'm sure all these FAs killing to go to the Jets to be apart of a 1-15 team with no QB would now pass that up because a franchise QB is now there. 

Players aren't dumb. A Lawrence lead Jets lead is wayyyyy more attractive than a Darnold lead one. 

Lastly, who cares about your respect. It means nothing. The Jets just passed up on something that actually matters. An all time great QB prospect.

You're missing the point that every player out there is playing for a job. No one wants to leave opportunities on the table to show their value by getting benched or by throwing the game. Not to mention the total crap any organization would be in when it comes to contract bonuses/incentives.

[soflbillsfan]

32 minutes ago, pwny said:

Because when you do this, you become the Jacksonville Jaguars. “They should just build around Bortles” and then you end up not being in position to get a QB, and then that talent you acquired pushed their way out, and you end up back being a dumpster fire 4 years later. 

oh ok so you get a qb, with no weapons to throw to nor oline. You end up like Joe Burrow blaming the franchise that drafted you after you tear your acl because of lack of protection. Or you get the next Sam Darnold where he literally has no ability to succeed. Jets aren't a qb away so why not get top talent at weapons and oline put darnold in to succeed if he does great if not you go all in next year on a qb. Its not like qbs that are being discussed as MVP were drafted #1 or 2 in the draft. You got guys like Mahomes picked 12, Watson picked 10, Josh Allen picked 7, potential rookie of the year Herbert picked 6th. I am not saying you go Jags and pay Darnold, I am saying you are far from being a contender a qb away and a new HC. You have Crowder (solid slot receiver but thats it), Mims potential to be maybe a #2 wr and thats it. Then you got Becton on the oline, and thats basically it. Maybe you give Mcgovern an option next year but honestly that is it. Te Herndon and Griffen could easily be upgraded in the draft, if available at the 2nd pick in the 1st round TE Pitts from UF. You also have the ability to go after the Heisman candidate in Bama WR Smith with the 1st pick or the best olineman in the draft to help protect your qb. No RB that is any form of a threat.  Pay a couple of olineman in free agency with the cap space you got. Get a mid level vet rb and draft one mid round. Then if Darnold sucks you know you got a top 5 pick next year where you can land a QB and you dont pay darnold. While Darnold hasn't proven he is a franchise qb he also has been given absolutely nothing to work with to show any type of spark. That is just on the offense not even talking defense. Even when you get Mosley back you still have nothing on that defense outside him and Quinnen.  So to me you land a sure fire player at pick 2 or pick up a couple of picks for moving back over taking a qb who is questionable and isnt a sure fire franchise qb and end up doing this talk 3 years from now blaming Darnold 2.0 its his fault for part of the anemic offense.  

Edited December 22, 2020 by soflbillsfan

[Forge]

21 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

oh ok so you get a qb, with no weapons to throw to nor oline.

Why can't they sign anyone or trade for anyone? I'm not sure why this is an all or nothing proposition with regards to "we don't have a supporting cast around the QB if we take him".  They have a ton of money into a year where decisions are going to have to be made by teams. Sign one of the many, many free agent receivers that are scheduled to hit the market as of right now (obviously subject to change). Jets fans seem to like their Tackles...so maybe they sign Thuney to shore up the interior for the time being. Another first round pick + early second round pick should add two more instant contributors, etc etc. Things change quickly in the NFL. 

Either way that the Jets go (taking whom they perceive to be a franchise QB or trading down, collecting assets and building around the position for now) should be easily justifiable to anyone, even if you don't agree with the particular path that they take. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But I definitely think that there is merit to either decision as well as drawbacks. 

 

[.Buzz]

3 minutes ago, Forge said:

Why can't they sign anyone or trade for anyone? I'm not sure why this is an all or nothing proposition with regards to "we don't have a supporting cast around the QB if we take him".  They have a ton of money into a year where decisions are going to have to be made by teams. Sign one of the many, many free agent receivers that are scheduled to hit the market as of right now (obviously subject to change). Jets fans seem to like their Tackles...so maybe they sign Thuney to shore up the interior for the time being. Another first round pick + early second round pick should add two more instant contributors, etc etc. Things change quickly in the NFL. 

Either way that the Jets go (taking whom they perceive to be a franchise QB or trading down, collecting assets and building around the position for now) should be easily justifiable to anyone, even if you don't agree with the particular path that they take. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But I definitely think that there is merit to either decision as well as drawbacks. 

 

They also have a second 1st and the rest of their draft to build around said QB. Not even getting into the fact they have Becton and several decent WRs like Mims, Perriman, Crowder, etc.

Not sure when people expected to have a slew of weapons/great OL ready for a young QB. That rarely happens.