bucsfan333 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, SappDaddyDance said: I simply think Dirk needs to take a page out of Doug Peterson, Sean McDermott and Kyle Shannahan had done in the past.... Keeping it simple for their QBs and letting them play. Yup. Play to Jameis' strengths. The deep ball isn't working right now, so drop it for a bit. Or at least don't do it as often. Or don't make it the first read. Jameis thrives in the no huddle, so do it. Roll him out. Run those intermediate routes he's great at throwing. We can do a lot of little things like that to help him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, ravishingone said: Maybe a little more press involved. One last thing on the offense. How many offenses are described by a recently retired very successful QB who is an announcer as not making the job easy for the QB. Kind of alarming and quite frankly discouraging right now. I saw VHIII press someone and completely disrupt his route today. So he's more than capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, SappDaddyDance said: Not trying be an out and out Jameis fan, but to compare him to Freeman at this point is hilarious. Winston's rookie year was more impressive then any point of Freeman's entire tenure here in Tampa. He was confident he was able to confidently go through his reads, he seemed like a different QB when Dirk was his OC as opposed to how he is playing currently. The reason why Winston has success in the 2 minute or no huddle is that he just plays football, he is going through his reads to not turn the ball over as opposed to trying to score. Go back and watch his rookie year, he was one of the top QBs in the NFL in the deep ball. I simply think Dirk needs to take a page out of Doug Peterson, Sean McDermott and Kyle Shannahan had done in the past.... Keeping it simple for their QBs and letting them play. I understand he's not Freeman off the field. But not seeing open receivers, hesitant while throwing, and throwing into triple and double coverages, yeah that comparison is accurate. His deep ball is not NFL starter worthy. Heck fitz and Keenum throw deep balls better lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 26 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said: Honestly, the offense we called with Fitz is what we need to do with Jameis. Fitz was rolling out all over the place. We ran a lot of short, quick routes. It helped that Fitz isn't afraid to check it down, while Jameis likes to take his shots. But if we can call plays closer to the LOS like we did with Fitz I think Jameis would look a lot better. And the offense would look a lot better. And maybe we would score more points. Just maybe. maybe the offense we are calling with winston IS the same offense we called when fitz was in there it just looked better because Fitz actually made it work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Just now, REDandPEWTER said: I understand he's not Freeman off the field. But not seeing open receivers, hesitant while throwing, and throwing into triple and double coverages, yeah that comparison is accurate. His deep ball is not NFL starter worthy. Heck fitz and Keenum throw deep balls better lol. its funny because in year 1 we all were saying Winstons deep ball was nice and a strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: maybe the offense we are calling with winston IS the same offense we called when fitz was in there it just looked better because Fitz actually made it work It's certainly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: maybe the offense we are calling with winston IS the same offense we called when fitz was in there it just looked better because Fitz actually made it work Yeah I find it hard to believe we ran a completely different offense Bc of a qb change. The whole offense has to be on the same page there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil' Shorty Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 32 minutes ago, BucsDraftGeek47 said: maybe the offense we are calling with winston IS the same offense we called when fitz was in there it just looked better because Fitz actually made it work THIS is what is terribly concerning and what my gut is telling me. But at the same time it's blatelntly obvious Koetter is not doing good with game management or play calling. Both Jameis and Koetter are a problem, I just don't know which is a bigger problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 44 minutes ago, Lil' Shorty said: THIS is what is terribly concerning and what my gut is telling me. But at the same time it's blatelntly obvious Koetter is not doing good with game management or play calling. Both Jameis and Koetter are a problem, I just don't know which is a bigger problem. Well the thing is. Dirk will be fired before Winston is traded or not extended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucsDraftGeek47 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, REDandPEWTER said: Well the thing is. Dirk will be fired before Winston is traded or not extended. unfortunately 58 minutes ago, Lil' Shorty said: THIS is what is terribly concerning and what my gut is telling me. But at the same time it's blatelntly obvious Koetter is not doing good with game management or play calling. Both Jameis and Koetter are a problem, I just don't know which is a bigger problem. the problem is theres no way to really fix this problem right now, just have to ride it out and hope the 1st overall pick gets it together and dirk starts calling a better game just need to simplify things get back to the basics, both these guys (Koetter and as a by product Jameis) are thinking way too much and just need to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SappDaddyDance Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 hours ago, REDandPEWTER said: I understand he's not Freeman off the field. But not seeing open receivers, hesitant while throwing, and throwing into triple and double coverages, yeah that comparison is accurate. His deep ball is not NFL starter worthy. Heck fitz and Keenum throw deep balls better lol. Again to this point his rookie year that wasn't the case with Winston, ever since he recreated his throwing motion and has had it drilled in his head to not turn the ball over, he doesn't look like the same QB he was at 21. Currently, I would have to agree with you, he has that Freeman deer in the headlights look and I think a lot of that has to do with how he is being coached out of his style of play. I think the biggest mistake the Bucs made was not keeping McCown in here as a mentor to Winston. He needs someone in the room that can actually coach the position, which aside from Dirk he has not had in his NFL career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc Ball Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 37 games in, is it possible that the offence is too complex for him? Given how hard he works, I wouldn't have thought so. My concern is, he's a gunslinger who is going to take chances and that will lead to picks. That's something that's inherent to the player and you're just going to have to help him minimise them, rather than completely stamp them out. If you're making Winston play a certain way so as not to throw a pick, you take away part of what made him worthy of the number 1 pick. The fact we're much better in the second half suggests to me that either we start calling more aggressive plays, or that Winston gets that mental anchor out of his head and starts being aggressive with his throws. Koetter's game management is terrible. A 5 point loss in a game where he left 5 points on the field. I can forgive him for the first 2PAT attempt (we were down by 31) but consider the momentum aspect of that - you finally get a foothold in the game and then you try a relatively low percentage option for the point after. You don't get it, your defence goes on deflated, rather than motivated because you've got a bit of momentum. We learned a lot about the character of this team yesterday and it's encouraging to see that most of them didn't quit. We also learned a lot about this coaching staff and their inability to adequately prepare a team for a game. Yesterday and the Minnesota game felt like Baltimore and Atlanta 2014 all over again. Koetter's teams have done this too often. Smith was fired for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sryan66611 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 As for the difference of Fitz plays vs. Winston plays this game/ past games.. I kind of think that it was just dialed down a notch from Winston to Fitz. My reasoning they may have plays in there that winston is more akin too than Ryan. Like that one weird run play that Fitz did it looked like an option and that's something I have never really seen Winston do. Some of it seemed as if they ran what Fitz was more comfortable with but is probably the same playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 It's not like we went from running an air coryell offense with Jameis to a west coast offense with Fitz. But we definitely seemed to run things a lot closer to the LOS with Fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDandPEWTER Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 A lot of things I noticed was the ball was out quicker with fitz than you normally see with Winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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