Raves Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, tyler735 said: Disagree a high end pass rusher is more valuable to me than Williams who is a good not great Free Safety. I think Hendrickson has a much higher ceiling as well going forward. Yes, a High end pass rusher is, but that's not Hendrickson. He's a pass rushing specialist that is put into a position to get sacks. There are plenty of players in the league that fit that bill and perform well. He only played 53% of the defensive snaps this year, that's not a high end pass rusher, that's a rotation specialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Raves said: Yes, a High end pass rusher is, but that's not Hendrickson. He's a pass rushing specialist that is put into a position to get sacks. There are plenty of players in the league that fit that bill and perform well. He only played 53% of the defensive snaps this year, that's not a high end pass rusher, that's a rotation specialist. The writings on the wall for Hendrickson... Payton has recently been talking up Carl Granderson and how good he think he can be. Granderson can fill that pass specialist role. He had 6 sacks in limited snaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Raves said: Yes, a High end pass rusher is, but that's not Hendrickson. He's a pass rushing specialist that is put into a position to get sacks. There are plenty of players in the league that fit that bill and perform well. He only played 53% of the defensive snaps this year, that's not a high end pass rusher, that's a rotation specialist. Having one can also make or break a defense. Shaq Barrett is a pass rushing specialist, he gives you hell. There are not plenty of players in the league who can get double digit sacks on less than 60% of defensive snaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 21 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: Having one can also make or break a defense. Shaq Barrett is a pass rushing specialist, he gives you hell. There are not plenty of players in the league who can get double digit sacks on less than 60% of defensive snaps. And until this year he didn't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Raves said: And until this year he didn't either. Yes, players develop. Its going to be a shame if he walks and is a perennial double digit sack guy elsewhere. So quickly we forget the black hole of DEs we had before Cam Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: Having one can also make or break a defense. Shaq Barrett is a pass rushing specialist, he gives you hell. There are not plenty of players in the league who can get double digit sacks on less than 60% of defensive snaps. I get it... it would suck to lose him, I don't think anyone would argue that we should keep him if we could. The question is can we afford him and what is he worth? Barrett is great but their is a reason why he's been playing on the franchise tag. He now says he wants to break the bank, not so sure he's a lock to return to Tampa. That will only drive Hendrickson price tag up. When you take into account the teams cap situation they are currently trying to decide who is their young core to build around, they already choose Thomas, Kamara, Onyemata and Peat... they're about to also select Lattimore and Ramczyk. I feel as if the team can choose between Williams and Hendrickson this off-season but can't have both. Looking at them, Hendrickson will be more expensive and simply cannot be confused with any of the top 3 edge rushers in the NFL, while Williams will be a lil cheaper and has the numbers and skill to be compared with the top 3 free safteys in the league. Williams is also 3 years younger than Hendrickson with a cleaner injury history. The defense the Saints employ values a rangy safety with ball skills more so than other schemes. Also the Saints have a much cheaper very comparable player behind Hendrickson in Carl Granderson who had 6 sacks in limited snaps last season. For these reasons I feel the Saints will choose Williams over Hendrickson this off-season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share Posted February 13, 2021 Then again... considering the cap situation, the open market value of pass rushers and the Saints tendency to never resign safeties in their second contract there is a better than good chance that both Hendrickson and Williams are playing for other teams next season. Actually its looking more and more likley... Someone is going to make Williams the NFLs highest paid safety while Hendrickson will get priced out of the Saints range once he hits the open market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 4 hours ago, Raves said: Yes, a High end pass rusher is, but that's not Hendrickson. He's a pass rushing specialist that is put into a position to get sacks. There are plenty of players in the league that fit that bill and perform well. He only played 53% of the defensive snaps this year, that's not a high end pass rusher, that's a rotation specialist. Played 53% of snaps...And still had ELITE production as a pass rusher. In both pressures and sacks was top 3. I don't think that helps your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, tyler735 said: Played 53% of snaps...And still had ELITE production as a pass rusher. In both pressures and sacks was top 3. I don't think that helps your argument. It means they put him in when it was obvious passing situations and he could just put his ears back and attack. He also had only 29 tackles. Dude is a situation pass rusher, yes he did very well this year at it, but it was one year that he did it. I wouldn't pay him elite money when he hasn't proven it more than one year. I mean Vic Beasley had an elite season 15.5 sacks one year and has been average at best since, but I guess you wouldn't given him a massive contract after that year right? I mean at least Robert Quinn had 3 double digit sack seasons before he fell off. You don't pay someone the kind of money he could potentially get for one year of production. He never showed to be that good of a pass rusher prior to this year, not even close and as whodat pointed out, Carl Granderson had 5 sacks on only 28% of defensive snaps. He can easily fulfill that role that Hendrickson had for the rookie contract he's on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Raves said: It means they put him in when it was obvious passing situations and he could just put his ears back and attack. He also had only 29 tackles. Dude is a situation pass rusher, yes he did very well this year at it, but it was one year that he did it. I wouldn't pay him elite money when he hasn't proven it more than one year. I mean Vic Beasley had an elite season 15.5 sacks one year and has been average at best since, but I guess you wouldn't given him a massive contract after that year right? I mean at least Robert Quinn had 3 double digit sack seasons before he fell off. You don't pay someone the kind of money he could potentially get for one year of production. He never showed to be that good of a pass rusher prior to this year, not even close and as whodat pointed out, Carl Granderson had 5 sacks on only 28% of defensive snaps. He can easily fulfill that role that Hendrickson had for the rookie contract he's on. Guys... I think cap space and team building is going to make this a mute point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Raves said: It means they put him in when it was obvious passing situations and he could just put his ears back and attack. He also had only 29 tackles. Dude is a situation pass rusher, yes he did very well this year at it, but it was one year that he did it. Elite year this year...in limited snaps. There's no way around that. If anyone could do it every team would have a guy doing it. Yet at the end of the day, his efficiency was far beyond just about any pass rusher in the league. 3 hours ago, Raves said: I wouldn't pay him elite money when he hasn't proven it more than one year. I mean Vic Beasley had an elite season 15.5 sacks one year and has been average at best since, but I guess you wouldn't given him a massive contract after that year right? I mean at least Robert Quinn had 3 double digit sack seasons before he fell off. As I mentioned before since Hendrickson has gotten significant snaps, he has shown to be an effective pass rusher (elite level production this past year). I expect him to continue being productive going forward with more snaps. 3 hours ago, Raves said: You don't pay someone the kind of money he could potentially get for one year of production. He never showed to be that good of a pass rusher prior to this year, not even close and as whodat pointed out, Carl Granderson had 5 sacks on only 28% of defensive snaps. He can easily fulfill that role that Hendrickson had for the rookie contract he's on. Hendrickson has been excellent the past 2 seasons given the amount of snaps he's played. Good luck with Granderson being a top 3 sack guy and pressure guy in the NFL if we don't resign Hendrickson. Are you willing to sig bet Granderson would match Hendrickson's production? I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm pretty confident I won't be. We aren't talking about Hendrickson over a guy like Ed Reed, we are talking about him over Marcus Williams, a good Safety, but, nothing more. Marcus Williams is a good not great Safety. Hendrickson has the potential to be so much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, tyler735 said: Are you willing to sig bet Granderson would match Hendrickson's production? I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm pretty confident I won't be. I don't think anyone is saying Granderson can match that production, just fill the same role. Remember Granderson was a bit more highly touted prospect before his legal troubles, he was expected to go sometime in the mid-late rounds. Saints got him on a deal as a UDFA for that reason. But you could be talking about $15,000,000+ versus $855,000. Edited February 14, 2021 by Dome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dome said: I don't think anyone is saying Granderson can match that production, just fill the same role. Remember Granderson was a much more highly touted prospect before his legal troubles, Saints got a deal on him for that reason. But you could be talking about $15,000,000+ versus $855,000. "Carl Granderson had 5 sacks on only 28% of defensive snaps. He can easily fulfill that role that Hendrickson had for the rookie contract he's on." Doesn't seem like it to me. I'll take a chance on Hendrickson at 15 million in this scenario. Do you think Granderson can hit top 3 numbers at any point in his career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, tyler735 said: Do you think Granderson can hit top 3 numbers at any point in his career? No. But we aren't paying him like we think he can produce top 3 numbers, we're paying him like a UDFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodatworm23 Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, tyler735 said: "Carl Granderson had 5 sacks on only 28% of defensive snaps. He can easily fulfill that role that Hendrickson had for the rookie contract he's on." Doesn't seem like it to me. I'll take a chance on Hendrickson at 15 million in this scenario. Do you think Granderson can hit top 3 numbers at any point in his career? I really like Hendrickson... but I'm not paying a END 15+ million a year as a 1 trick pony! You got to be able to play both the run and pass at a high level. Hendrickson may be a lot of things but a stout run defender he is not. I understand his skill is valuable but I'd rather invest in defensive line depth over putting that much cap space into a singular skill. If your one of the top 8 paid players on the roster you must be able to affect the game in multiple ways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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