mse326 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, Turnobili said: it is. and i used it intentionally. I think you are looking too narrow into what Drake will be doing. He isn't JUST a backup RB for you guys. He does that but I imagine we'll also see quite a lot with them on the field together either with both in the backfield or Drake split out. He will be providing more than a back up RB I agree using the money on any RB rather than replenishing the OL is a problem, but I don't think the issue is that Drake isn't worth this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 we have yet to see Gruden let Jacobs share the field with another RB. my issue is not with Drake's value in a vacuum, because this signing wasn't made in a vacuum. its an unnecessary luxury signing for a team that cant afford luxury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 38 minutes ago, mse326 said: I think you are looking too narrow into what Drake will be doing. He isn't JUST a backup RB for you guys. He does that but I imagine we'll also see quite a lot with them on the field together either with both in the backfield or Drake split out. He will be providing more than a back up RB I agree using the money on any RB rather than replenishing the OL is a problem, but I don't think the issue is that Drake isn't worth this This is exactly what I think. It's a deep OL draft as well and we have 3 solid to good starters along with a promising 2nd year player in the wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, Forge said: I legitimately have no idea what the Raiders are doing, to be honest. It seems like they never have a fully formed plan...they just zig and zag with whatever opportunity is there. I think that's a long standing Gruden tradition though. The whole OL thing is overblown. Gabe was regressing and Trent was a joke, Hudson hurts but we have Andre James and an extra 3rd to fill the OC position. Weve already replaced Gabe with in-house guys who have performed just as well at a fraction of the cost, we really just need to replace Trent who missed much of last season. Raider fans are funny, they spent all offseason complaining about how much money we had tied into the OL so when we go cheaper, the sky is falling. Theyve also been asking for more speed at the RB position as well as a pass catcher, we get Drake and same thing lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 yall acting like its $11mil per lmao 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, Geezy said: The whole OL thing is overblown. Gabe was regressing and Trent was a joke, Hudson hurts but we have Andre James and an extra 3rd to fill the OC position. Weve already replaced Gabe with in-house guys who have performed just as well at a fraction of the cost, we really just need to replace Trent who missed much of last season. Raider fans are funny, they spent all offseason complaining about how much money we had tied into the OL so when we go cheaper, the sky is falling. Theyve also been asking for more speed at the RB position as well as a pass catcher, we get Drake and same thing lol literally every team in the NFL has a guy on the roster who is the backup center. that doesnt mean he's a viable starting option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 25 minutes ago, Turnobili said: we have yet to see Gruden let Jacobs share the field with another RB. my issue is not with Drake's value in a vacuum, because this signing wasn't made in a vacuum. its an unnecessary luxury signing for a team that cant afford luxury its been a position hes tried to fill in two offseasons? How is it unneccesary? You dont know crap about what hes trying to do offensively. I get ragging Gruden is the cool thing to do around here, and he has his warts but the guy knows offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Anyone who thinks that the OL was GOOD last year, or worth the money didn't watch the games. This is a net 2 million increase in salary from Jalen Richard. If THIS is the move that makes people think the sky is falling, I don't know what to tell you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Ducks Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Lmao they don’t know what they’re doing huh? Look forward to seeing Mayock on NFL Network soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Just now, Turnobili said: literally every team in the NFL has a guy on the roster who is the backup center. that doesnt mean he's a viable starting option. doesnt mean he isnt either, and we got a 3rd to help pick one up in the draft. Usually when theres a capable back-up, and an expensive aging veteran, this is the smart way to go. Itll all depend on if he James or draft pick is up to the task, neither of us can be too sure either way. All i know is the staff seems to be pretty high on James, and a lot of IOL are found in those mid round in which we were compensated for Hudson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Geezy said: its been a position hes tried to fill in two offseasons? How is it unneccesary? You dont know crap about what hes trying to do offensively. I get ragging Gruden is the cool thing to do around here, and he has his warts but the guy knows offense. a) where did i say anything about it being a position he's tried to fill in two offseasons? i dont know what this is supposed to mean. b) how is it unnecessary? its a backup RB who is being paid like a starter. its a luxury signing for a team that has dire needs to fill starters at multiple positions using a significant chunk of its remaining cap space on a backup RB. and the contention that Jacobs can't handle a full time load is also just an additional indictment of the decision to use a first round pick on a running back. c) "you dont know what he's trying to do offensively." gruden isn't a mystery. he's been an NFL coach for a long time. his MO is pretty clear. he doesnt do creative 2-back sets. we didnt see Wheatley and Garner share the field. he hasnt used Richard and Jacobs in the same backfield. hell he's basically barely used Jacobs as an actual receiver even though his ability to run and catch down the field was one of his selling points coming out of Alabama. i'm supposed to believe that Drake at backup RB is exactly what Gruden needed to suddenly unlock his magic offense? d) ragging Gruden isn't a "cool" thing to do. its the obvious thing to do, and the results speak for themselves. year after year we have tons of roster turnover and we dont seem to be on any stable footing at many positions. seems every offseason Grudock makes dumb moves. fans "complain" about them. then it turns out those moves didnt work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 as it relates to going cheaper on the OL... i dont think many raider fans had issues with moving on from Gabe Jackson if Good could be retained, and he has. this isn't the issue. nobody, literally nobody wanted to move on from Hudson this year, in part because there was virtually no cap saving in moving on from him. we could have paid Hudson the 13.6 mil he was owed. lets say an adequate replacement center would cost 5 mil. with the dead money, we'd have to pay 17 mil to go from hudson to average. it didnt make sense to move on. he asked to be released... so what? i fundamentally reject that a team has any obligation to cut a player who asks for one no matter what the cap ramifications are, unless he wanted to give up way more than just 3.5 mil. i also dont have a big issue with moving on from trent brown... but i'd like to see the cap savings go to replace him with at least a solid RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, Turnobili said: as it relates to going cheaper on the OL... i dont think many raider fans had issues with moving on from Gabe Jackson if Good could be retained, and he has. this isn't the issue. nobody, literally nobody wanted to move on from Hudson this year, in part because there was virtually no cap saving in moving on from him. we could have paid Hudson the 13.6 mil he was owed. lets say an adequate replacement center would cost 5 mil. with the dead money, we'd have to pay 17 mil to go from hudson to average. it didnt make sense to move on. he asked to be released... so what? i fundamentally reject that a team has any obligation to cut a player who asks for one no matter what the cap ramifications are, unless he wanted to give up way more than just 3.5 mil. i also dont have a big issue with moving on from trent brown... but i'd like to see the cap savings go to replace him with at least a solid RT. We didn’t cut Hudson though, we saved 1.5 this year and 14 next year, when he’d be 33. im just saying, Grudens a lot of things, but he knows offense. Yea he’s been a coach a long time but his offense produces and Drake will help, especially in the red zone where we’ve struggled. 5.5 isn’t crazy money, especially for a guy that was one of the hottest tickets in town when he signed with AZ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Geezy said: We didn’t cut Hudson though, we saved 1.5 this year and 14 next year, when he’d be 33. im just saying, Grudens a lot of things, but he knows offense. Yea he’s been a coach a long time but his offense produces and Drake will help, especially in the red zone where we’ve struggled. 5.5 isn’t crazy money, especially for a guy that was one of the hottest tickets in town when he signed with AZ. yeah we saved 1.5 this year. thats why my figure of spending ~5 mil on top of the ~12 he actually counts added to about 17 (i didnt add to the full 13.6). and knowing how to run an offense is not the same thing as constructing a roster. i dont mind gruden much on an X's and O's level, or play-calling level (though i do think he is over-reliant on the Spider 2y banana concept on 3rd and short, and teams always seem to see it coming now). where i have issues with Gruden is his de facto GM role Edited March 18, 2021 by Turnobili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 23 minutes ago, Turnobili said: a) where did i say anything about it being a position he's tried to fill in two offseasons? i dont know what this is supposed to mean. b) how is it unnecessary? its a backup RB who is being paid like a starter. its a luxury signing for a team that has dire needs to fill starters at multiple positions using a significant chunk of its remaining cap space on a backup RB. and the contention that Jacobs can't handle a full time load is also just an additional indictment of the decision to use a first round pick on a running back. c) "you dont know what he's trying to do offensively." gruden isn't a mystery. he's been an NFL coach for a long time. his MO is pretty clear. he doesnt do creative 2-back sets. we didnt see Wheatley and Garner share the field. he hasnt used Richard and Jacobs in the same backfield. hell he's basically barely used Jacobs as an actual receiver even though his ability to run and catch down the field was one of his selling points coming out of Alabama. i'm supposed to believe that Drake at backup RB is exactly what Gruden needed to suddenly unlock his magic offense? d) ragging Gruden isn't a "cool" thing to do. its the obvious thing to do, and the results speak for themselves. year after year we have tons of roster turnover and we dont seem to be on any stable footing at many positions. seems every offseason Grudock makes dumb moves. fans "complain" about them. then it turns out those moves didnt work. The first question mark was an error, I meant he’s been trying fill that role with someone since last offseason with Bowden, obviously he has a role to fill in his offense, so I’d hardly call this unnecessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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