Mind Character Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Maybe, but Haslam doesn’t seem to favor disciplined, quality thinking, either personally or in his staff. This is the moron who came in ranting and raving at Sashi and Co for not sending a bunch of assets to a division opponent for a mediocre QB midseason who would have done nothing more than potentially win a couple meaningless games and ruin our shot at a guy like Darnold or Rosen. Halsam is a moron and doesn’t seem to like people who make him feel like the window licker he is. Case in point, he and Hue seem to get along splendidly. I couldn't dislike Jimmy Haslam more. But it does seem he started to delegate to disciplined quality thinkers more. The AJ Mccaron thing really showed the lack of ability to follow a disciplined plan but more than anything showed me that the toll of losing started to create chaos in their thinking. Unlike most, I actually believe trading a 2nd and 3rd for Mccarron is not bad at all if you believe he can be a winning QB. However, it just would've been wrong to do so during the season b/c if he started winning it may have taken us out of QB1 draft range. There was a clear tension between a win-now oriented Hue Jackson who asked Jimmy and co in his interview "Can we win here? Is the plan to get to winning?" The Mccaron thing was indicative of a tension that met its boiling point. Anyone with any football knowledge could have easily predicted that boiling point was surely to come after a historically bad season the only changes were Letting Pryor Walk, Cutting the best man corner Joe Haden, Trading the leader Demario Davis,for a flyer, Adding Britt, Mccourty, Zeitler, Osweiler, and Tretter. The coaches knew that wasn't enough to win and with a rookie QB they could lose their jobs. Therefore, the tension reached critical mass. Sashi did what was right for the organization...Hue did what was right from a Coaches perspective and evaluative time scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Yeah for Mccarron i think the question was our second round pick the Texans or Philly 33 to 64 could be a huge difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: The HC, our QB whisperer, didn’t want either of those qb’s, why would we take them? Hue was the guy brought in here tasked to find a qb, Sashi gave him chance after chance and he failed. The General Manager with final control over all personnel decisions (Sashi) is the one who failed to find a QB despite having every opportunity to do so. You can blame Hue for plenty of things, but not something that isn't in his title and job description. I feel much better about Dorsey picking the QB this year than Sashi or Hue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 minute ago, dawgdish said: The General Manager with final control over all personnel decisions (Sashi) is the one who failed to find a QB despite having every opportunity to do so. You can blame Hue for plenty of things, but not something that isn't in his title and job description. I feel much better about Dorsey picking the QB this year than Sashi or Hue. The quotes from both Hue and Sashi regarding his role have been displayed numerous times, no point in doing so again it seems, but Hue had a say. Hue wants to have a say it seems but wants to shuck the blame to Sashi when we “trust him” on a QB and he fails. Doesn’t make much sense to me. The earth didn’t move under Sashi’s feet watching RGIII throw a football in shorts. It didn’t move under Hue’s when he saw Wentz and felt he wasn’t with 2. It didn’t when he wanted a FS over Watson either. Hue is culpable, like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: The quotes from both Hue and Sashi regarding his role have been displayed numerous times, no point in doing so again it seems, but Hue had a say. Hue wants to have a say it seems but wants to shuck the blame to Sashi when we “trust him” on a QB and he fails. Doesn’t make much sense to me. The earth didn’t move under Sashi’s feet watching RGIII throw a football in shorts. It didn’t move under Hue’s when he saw Wentz and felt he wasn’t with 2. It didn’t when he wanted a FS over Watson either. Hue is culpable, like it or not. Sure, they are both definitely culpable, no denying that. But to say Hue failed to find a QB and that's the task he was assigned to is disingenuous, as it diminishes the role of the actual guy with the title and the power's failure to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, dawgdish said: Sure, they are both definitely culpable, no denying that. But to say Hue failed to find a QB and that's the task he was assigned to is disingenuous, as it diminishes the role of the actual guy with the title and the power's failure to do so. How so, we’re the example I gave not accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: How so, we’re the example I gave not accurate? Might sound like a cop out, but I literally don't know what drivel that came out of Hue's mouth about anything (QBs or otherwise) or that's been leaked to the press is accurate/valid enough to make a surefire assumption on who definitely made what decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, dawgdish said: Might sound like a cop out, but I literally don't know what drivel that came out of Hue's mouth about anything (QBs or otherwise) or that's been leaked to the press is accurate/valid enough to make a surefire assumption on who definitely made what decision. I mean the quotes are either from Hue himself or his noted friend Mike Silver. It’s more than just fan speculation. If you want to ignore what folks are saying, including the man himself, because it doesn’t fit your narrative, that’s cool and all, but that doesn’t mean what you’re saying is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgattack Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: The quotes from both Hue and Sashi regarding his role have been displayed numerous times, no point in doing so again it seems, but Hue had a say. Hue wants to have a say it seems but wants to shuck the blame to Sashi when we “trust him” on a QB and he fails. Doesn’t make much sense to me. The earth didn’t move under Sashi’s feet watching RGIII throw a football in shorts. It didn’t move under Hue’s when he saw Wentz and felt he wasn’t with 2. It didn’t when he wanted a FS over Watson either. Hue is culpable, like it or not. Hue is certainly culpable and I wish he was gone. Sashi as top dog of player personnel however is also very culpable for equipping the coaching staff with a QB room full of greenies that hadn't won a single NFL game. Fortunately the reward for this tire fire of a season is the #1 pick but an 0 and 16 season encompasses a lot of damage (culture, morale, perception from outsiders etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, dawgattack said: Hue is certainly culpable and I wish he was gone. Sashi as top dog of player personnel however is also very culpable for equipping the coaching staff with a QB room full of greenies that hadn't won a single NFL game. Fortunately the reward for this tire fire of a season is the #1 pick but an 0 and 16 season encompasses a lot of damage (culture, morale, perception from outsiders etc). Did Sashi not trade for a vet who was entering his 6th (?) season and who started for multiple teams that Hue then rejected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I mean the quotes are either from Hue himself or his noted friend Mike Silver. It’s more than just fan speculation. If you want to ignore what folks are saying, including the man himself, because it doesn’t fit your narrative, that’s cool and all, but that doesn’t mean what you’re saying is accurate. What's my narrative? Hue is so full of it, I don't know, for instance, if the "trust me" comment was trying to show a united front for the Kessler pick that most reports say was Sashi's, or if maybe he did in fact want him. I'm not making excuses for Hue or Sahsi, they both got us to 1 win over 2 seasons. Did Sashi not trade for a vet who was entering his 6th (?) season and who started for multiple teams that Hue then rejected? If you think Osweiller was a decent option as a starter or a mentor, you're really bending things to fit your Sahsi-as-god narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgattack Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Did Sashi not trade for a vet who was entering his 6th (?) season and who started for multiple teams that Hue then rejected? Sashi didn't trade for a vet...he traded for a 2nd round pick for taking a vet's contract off Houston's hands. It was reported from Day 1 that Osweiler would most likely be released before the season. Whether it was Hue's decision or not to release Osweiler after a weak pre-season showing, Sashi didn't make the trade with the intention of providing the coaching staff with a vet for the QB room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, dawgdish said: What's my narrative? Hue is so full of it, I don't know, for instance, if the "trust me" comment was trying to show a united front for the Kessler pick that most reports say was Sashi's, or if maybe he did in fact want him. I'm not making excuses for Hue or Sahsi, they both got us to 1 win over 2 seasons. You’ve had a hard on for Sashi since day one and seeming made no bones about it. What’s wrong with me pointing that out? You’d gladly accept any possible theory over the words spoken directly from the man’s mouth taking responsibility for the decisions or, at a minimum, co-signing them. Quote If you think Osweiller was a decent option as a starter or a mentor, you're really bending things to fit your Sahsi-as-god narrative. Strawman. You stated he didn’t provide Hue with a vet, this was the rebuttal. 7 minutes ago, dawgattack said: Sashi didn't trade for a vet...he traded for a 2nd round pick for taking a vet's contract off Houston's hands. It was reported from Day 1 that Osweiler would most likely be released before the season. Whether it was Hue's decision or not to release Osweiler after a weak pre-season showing, Sashi didn't make the trade with the intention of providing the coaching staff with a vet for the QB room. How much of Sashi’s determination/willingness to go after a vet was at Hue’s requuest? Hue seemingly wanted Kessler, he got him. He wanted RGIII, got him. Perhaps Huebris wasn’t fazed by a young qb room? God knows he doesn’t lack the confidence to think he could make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 52 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: The quotes from both Hue and Sashi regarding his role have been displayed numerous times, no point in doing so again it seems, but Hue had a say. Hue wants to have a say it seems but wants to shuck the blame to Sashi when we “trust him” on a QB and he fails. Doesn’t make much sense to me. The earth didn’t move under Sashi’s feet watching RGIII throw a football in shorts. It didn’t move under Hue’s when he saw Wentz and felt he wasn’t with 2. It didn’t when he wanted a FS over Watson either. Hue is culpable, like it or not. Look...it's okay to say you hate Hue and think he's incompetent...Just say that. That's fine. Or if you think he's done a terrible job designing an offense a young QB could be successful in...Cool, that's fine say that. But everything just can't be seen through that lens. But let's be real about some things...Cody Kessler was the 31st pick in the third round that is the first compensatory pick and 4 picks away from being a 4th rounder. To think that a 4th round QB is the franchise QB is somewhat naive. In fact,,,It's fair to say that based on his draft spot, he has played up to the level of expectation. He competed...is trust worthy...had rookie isssues...and didnt capitalize when given the opportunity to start enough to forego getting a long look at the young big arm 2nd rounder Kizer who we had to get a look on in order to see if we should take a QB in the draft the following year. Let's just say Hue was all responsible for Cody...at the time he said "Trust me" he and the organization had no plans whatsoever to play Cody Kessler. In fact, we had TWO (2) QBs get injured for him to see the field Josh Mccown and RGIII. We never got a real chance to see RG3 in this offense due to injury. He looked suspect early on but he hadn't played ball in a long time. To say overly positive things about a QB that won the Heisman, was one of the most accurate QBs with one of the most beautiful deep ball throw abilities, Had one of the best rookie years ever, had a 2 catastrophic injuries that derailed his career and some immaturity issues. Hue Jackson was not the only 1 WOWed by an RG3 workout/ basically a pro day. He's an unbelievable athlete that had the best pro day since Sam Bradford...Mike Mayock, Daniel jeremiah, brian billick, Steve Mariucci, Bucky Brooks, The Washington team's scouts, the browns scouts, a major portion of the league were blown away by his workout. Why then a few years later....when he's bigger, stronger and likely a faster more explosive matured man of an athlete with similar if not better/stronger arm talent would one not be blown away. This is one of the best talents to ever play the position. 4.38, 40yd dash....BIG time arm...Big time accuracy...on the run and outside the pocket. It's simple: 1. We wanted Jared Goff (that evaluation was correct), 2. We liked Wentz but not enough to not go analytic trade down (That was a a big Misevaluation), 3. Out of the available talents in FA (there wasn't any), we took a calculated risk on 1 of the most talented athletes to ever play the position who had amazing heights in the NFL and some injury and coaching clash issues. 4. We selected a hard working, pinpoint accurate, marginal arm strength player in what amounts to the FOURTH (4th) round of the draft w/ no intention to play him. When bashed by media and the league...Hue says trust me. 5. We tried to trade up for Trubiskty (Correct Evaluation data pending), We like and wanted Mahomes (Correct evaluation data pending), We liked but like everyone else except for the Texans passed on Watson (as did the Bears, 49ers, Jets, Jaguars, Chargers, Bengals, Chiefs)- That also so far looks to be a Misevaluation. A lot of the things being used as evidence to confirm previously held beliefs actually weren't terrible decisions given the context in which they happened (Cody in the 4th round...RG3 once Goff was outta reach...) There are legitimate criticisms but throwing everything in one giant bin to fit a narrative (that HUE sucks at everything) makes no sense especially when that narrative (that HUE sucks) has legitimate evidence to make that case albeit while other may disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: You’ve had a hard on for Sashi since day one and seeming made no bones about it. What’s wrong with me pointing that out? You’d gladly accept any possible theory over the words spoken directly from the man’s mouth taking responsibility for the decisions or, at a minimum, co-signing them. What theory have I accepted in keeping an open mind that both Hue and Sashi had culpability and failures in finding a QB? Your repping so hard for Sashi has blinded you to the objective fact that you dodge again and again by reaching for "it must've been exclusively Hue's fault" theories: that Sashi had final say over all personnel decisions and the roster. If you think any high level executive in any business organization isn't going to weigh in on each important decision that falls under their domain, you must still be in school (they will also, as Hue has done, try to throw everyone under the bus for doing a bad job themselves). Does that mean the bad decisions were 100% Sashi's? No, but that's where the buck stops if you're sitting in that chair - not at Hue's desk. Like @Mind Character says, there is plenty of concrete blame to heap on Hue for plenty of things...heck, you could do that all day if you wanted to. But I'm not the one whose hard on (as you say) has blinded them if you think Sashi had no culpability in failing to find a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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