big_palooka Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 8 hours ago, riceman80 said: Really? People want us to tank? Little extreme... Play the season out and hire a new staff. My dream...hire Chucky as HC, Wade Wilson as OC, and Nick Rapone as DC Your dream is to live on past nostalgia with a coach who's not been on the sidelines in nearly a decade? Why won't Raider fans let this one go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceman80 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: Your dream is to live on past nostalgia with a coach who's not been on the sidelines in nearly a decade? Why won't Raider fans let this one go? For me there's several reasons... 1. What i always loved most about Gruden was his fire. He's passionate, infectious, confident, and loves the game like a 10 year old kid. He's one of the best motivators i've seen on a sideline in my time watching football. 2. I'm not worried about his time away. He's very modernized and still extremely close to the game. He understands how the game is played now compared to the old days. Even college teams want him (Tennessee is reportedly offering 10 mil a year to replace Butch Jones). 3. Offense is his forte and i dont wanna see Derek Carr and Coop's prime to go waste. He's aggressive, creative, and tireless in his preparation. He's very advanced in terms of scheming and runs a complex West Coast system. Learned from guys like Holmgren, Seifert, and Andy Reid. 4. He's the total opposite of JDR and that's what we need. Look at our team this year. I dont see the intensity of a young team like we should have. JDR's very old school and so is the way he conducts this team. Unwilling to adapt and make changes, lack of emotion on the sidelines, etc. Simply put he's boring as hell for a head coach imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: Really points to the mismanagement of the staff when there isn't a backup plan for a failing OC. He was young, inexperienced and they didn't have anyone to help him really. Poorly done. It's time for an overhaul. JDR is Jeff Fisher. A frustrating guy who will get you to .500 with good talent. Overachieve a couple seasons. But overall leave you wanting way WAY more. For me... they need to go with an offensive HC to pair with Carr. It shouldn't be a surprise that there was no plan in case things go south with Downing, I mean it took 3 seasons of KNJ's constant failure to get Pagano in here. This is on JDR thinking too highly of the staff he put together. It's funny you bring up fisher because McVay is absolutely the type of HC that I'd like for this team. He totally changed the Rams and took them from the worst team in the west to the second best. It wouldn't surprise me it the made the playoffs. This team however read to much of their own press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, Chali21 said: It shouldn't be a surprise that there was no plan in case things go south with Downing, I mean it took 3 seasons of KNJ's constant failure to get Pagano in here. This is on JDR thinking too highly of the staff he put together. It's funny you bring up fisher because McVay is absolutely the type of HC that I'd like for this team. He totally changed the Rams and took them from the worst team in the west to the second best. It wouldn't surprise me it the made the playoffs. This team however read to much of their own press. Still early, but McVey certainly has the makings of a special coach. Oh and guess who the DC is WADE PHILLIPS who a lot of wanted the Raiders to consider here. Perfect combo of young smart offensive coach and grounded, consistent veteran DC. It's working and they are an exciting team. McVey took Goff and Gurley to new levels in a short amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, riceman80 said: For me there's several reasons... 1. What i always loved most about Gruden was his fire. He's passionate, infectious, confident, and loves the game like a 10 year old kid. He's one of the best motivators i've seen on a sideline in my time watching football. 2. I'm not worried about his time away. He's very modernized and still extremely close to the game. He understands how the game is played now compared to the old days. Even college teams want him (Tennessee is reportedly offering 10 mil a year to replace Butch Jones). 3. Offense is his forte and i dont wanna see Derek Carr and Coop's prime to go waste. He's aggressive, creative, and tireless in his preparation. He's very advanced in terms of scheming and runs a complex West Coast system. Learned from guys like Holmgren, Seifert, and Andy Reid. 4. He's the total opposite of JDR and that's what we need. Look at our team this year. I dont see the intensity of a young team like we should have. JDR's very old school and so is the way he conducts this team. Unwilling to adapt and make changes, lack of emotion on the sidelines, etc. Simply put he's boring as hell for a head coach imo. 1. Fire isn't everything. Belicheck has zero fire. McCarthy has zero fire. Payton has little fire. Arians has little fire. Garret has no fire. McVay has little fire. McDermott has little fire. Andy Ried has no fire. Honestly the only two coaches with any level of success that do are Carrol and Jim Harbaugh. Honestly JDR does have fire, when there are BS calls he's right in the refs ears yelling and neck vein throbbing. Who cares about fire? Just give me a HC who knows what he's doing. 2 and 3. You should be worried, the game has changed very much since Gruden has been a HC. How current is he on the spread concepts? The game is simple but the execution isn't. Who would Gruden bring in as assistants? If Gruden was this great offensive mind then why haven't teams tried to hire him? Its obvious that he wants to coach but teams haven't even thought to hire him. Also he runs a complex system, that's great lets waste another year of Carr's career with him learning Spider Y Banana. How many times where the Bucs in the top ten in offense when he was their HC? 4. Basically I'm going to reiterate: Who the hell cares if the coach is boring? Have you ever watched a Bill Belichek presser? It's all grumbles and we're on to Cincinnati, and thats if they lose! The game has passed him by and the Raiders would be fools to consider this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonGruber Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Chali21 said: 1. Fire isn't everything. Belicheck has zero fire. McCarthy has zero fire. Payton has little fire. Arians has little fire. Garret has no fire. McVay has little fire. McDermott has little fire. Andy Ried has no fire. Honestly the only two coaches with any level of success that do are Carrol and Jim Harbaugh. Honestly JDR does have fire, when there are BS calls he's right in the refs ears yelling and neck vein throbbing. Who cares about fire? Just give me a HC who knows what he's doing. 2 and 3. You should be worried, the game has changed very much since Gruden has been a HC. How current is he on the spread concepts? The game is simple but the execution isn't. Who would Gruden bring in as assistants? If Gruden was this great offensive mind then why haven't teams tried to hire him? Its obvious that he wants to coach but teams haven't even thought to hire him. Also he runs a complex system, that's great lets waste another year of Carr's career with him learning Spider Y Banana. How many times where the Bucs in the top ten in offense when he was their HC? 4. Basically I'm going to reiterate: Who the hell cares if the coach is boring? Have you ever watched a Bill Belichek presser? It's all grumbles and we're on to Cincinnati, and thats if they lose! The game has passed him by and the Raiders would be fools to consider this. I’m sure teams have inquired but I’m with you is he going to want complete control ? Let’s say he does how that work in Tampa after the bowl. I certainly recall the Jamarcus led raiders knocking him out the playoff hunt before he was canned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 hours ago, riceman80 said: For me there's several reasons... 1. What i always loved most about Gruden was his fire. He's passionate, infectious, confident, and loves the game like a 10 year old kid. He's one of the best motivators i've seen on a sideline in my time watching football. 2. I'm not worried about his time away. He's very modernized and still extremely close to the game. He understands how the game is played now compared to the old days. Even college teams want him (Tennessee is reportedly offering 10 mil a year to replace Butch Jones). 3. Offense is his forte and i dont wanna see Derek Carr and Coop's prime to go waste. He's aggressive, creative, and tireless in his preparation. He's very advanced in terms of scheming and runs a complex West Coast system. Learned from guys like Holmgren, Seifert, and Andy Reid. 4. He's the total opposite of JDR and that's what we need. Look at our team this year. I dont see the intensity of a young team like we should have. JDR's very old school and so is the way he conducts this team. Unwilling to adapt and make changes, lack of emotion on the sidelines, etc. Simply put he's boring as hell for a head coach imo. Everything you're writing is based on his past. After spending the last decade in a comfortable analyst job, why would he want to come back? Second, if he did come back, what guy are you actually getting? Will he have the same fire and tireless work ethic. I'd question all of that. Personally... if you want someone from the Walsh, Holmgren, Andy Reid tree there is a guy I've mentioned in the past who deserves another shot. Pat Shurmur. He's currently running a very successful offense in Minnesota with Keenum as his QB. He's been great at molding QBs over the years. His offenses are dynamic and creative in the WCO style. He fizzled in Cleveland.... but who hasn't? Gruden... I love the guy for the what he did in Oakland, but turning back time would seem like a desperate move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Chali21 said: 1. Fire isn't everything. Belicheck has zero fire. McCarthy has zero fire. Payton has little fire. Arians has little fire. Garret has no fire. McVay has little fire. McDermott has little fire. Andy Ried has no fire. Honestly the only two coaches with any level of success that do are Carrol and Jim Harbaugh. Honestly JDR does have fire, when there are BS calls he's right in the refs ears yelling and neck vein throbbing. Who cares about fire? Just give me a HC who knows what he's doing. 2 and 3. You should be worried, the game has changed very much since Gruden has been a HC. How current is he on the spread concepts? The game is simple but the execution isn't. Who would Gruden bring in as assistants? If Gruden was this great offensive mind then why haven't teams tried to hire him? Its obvious that he wants to coach but teams haven't even thought to hire him. Also he runs a complex system, that's great lets waste another year of Carr's career with him learning Spider Y Banana. How many times where the Bucs in the top ten in offense when he was their HC? 4. Basically I'm going to reiterate: Who the hell cares if the coach is boring? Have you ever watched a Bill Belichek presser? It's all grumbles and we're on to Cincinnati, and thats if they lose! The game has passed him by and the Raiders would be fools to consider this. Excellent points. Fact is, Raider fans who clamor for Gruden, it's more for his personality than his actual ability to coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceman80 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I could care less how other coaches coach their teams. I think Chucky's personality would be a great fit for our current personnel. There's rumors every year of him turning down teams in both NFL and college. If he's so out of touch then why is an SEC team that's built to run the spread, and currently does, reportedly offering him 10 mil a year? Do you not remember his West Coast offense using 4 and 5 wide shotgun looks with Gannon leading us to the playoffs multiple years. Clearly the game hasn't passed him by otherwise no one would inquire or talk about it. Here's a good article on Chucky and how he basically hasn't stopped studying like a head coach since he left... https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2636358-inside-jon-grudens-maniacal-obsession-with-football.amp.html He studies relentless in every aspect, works with teams in training camps, runs a film academy, runs player camps around the draft. He hasn't been away from the game at all. I will admit i wouldn't want him to have total control as drafting was always his biggest weakness but if we hired him and kept Reggie at GM I'd be ecstatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 hours ago, SimonGruber said: I’m sure teams have inquired but I’m with you is he going to want complete control ? Let’s say he does how that work in Tampa after the bowl. I certainly recall the Jamarcus led raiders knocking him out the playoff hunt before he was canned 3 hours ago, Chali21 said: 1. Fire isn't everything. Belicheck has zero fire. McCarthy has zero fire. Payton has little fire. Arians has little fire. Garret has no fire. McVay has little fire. McDermott has little fire. Andy Ried has no fire. Honestly the only two coaches with any level of success that do are Carrol and Jim Harbaugh. Honestly JDR does have fire, when there are BS calls he's right in the refs ears yelling and neck vein throbbing. Who cares about fire? Just give me a HC who knows what he's doing. 2 and 3. You should be worried, the game has changed very much since Gruden has been a HC. How current is he on the spread concepts? The game is simple but the execution isn't. Who would Gruden bring in as assistants? If Gruden was this great offensive mind then why haven't teams tried to hire him? Its obvious that he wants to coach but teams haven't even thought to hire him. Also he runs a complex system, that's great lets waste another year of Carr's career with him learning Spider Y Banana. How many times where the Bucs in the top ten in offense when he was their HC? 4. Basically I'm going to reiterate: Who the hell cares if the coach is boring? Have you ever watched a Bill Belichek presser? It's all grumbles and we're on to Cincinnati, and thats if they lose! The game has passed him by and the Raiders would be fools to consider this. I didn't even read the whole think but to suggest that those coaches have little fire because they aren't seen yelling like a banshee in the media is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 6 hours ago, big_palooka said: Your dream is to live on past nostalgia with a coach who's not been on the sidelines in nearly a decade? Why won't Raider fans let this one go? I agree Chucky is not the answer. Neither is Del Rio though. I think almost all of us had the same reaction when Del Rio was hired. "Good for changing the culture, a needed hire, maybe a wildcard berth here and there, but Del Rio will never be a Super Bowl contending coach. Once the ship rights and then sinks a bit, time to find a real HC." He won't be gone at the end of this year which is disappointing but hopefully we'll find some new coordinators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: I agree Chucky is not the answer. Neither is Del Rio though. I think almost all of us had the same reaction when Del Rio was hired. "Good for changing the culture, a needed hire, maybe a wildcard berth here and there, but Del Rio will never be a Super Bowl contending coach. Once the ship rights and then sinks a bit, time to find a real HC." He won't be gone at the end of this year which is disappointing but hopefully we'll find some new coordinators. Good point actually. Del Rio was an uninspired hire when he came in. A guy you knew could motivate and get a team to the playoffs, but that was his ceiling. What's been a head scratcher for me is how poorly the defenses have been given his background. Also his loyalty to a poor (forced) DC hire is questionable. My guess.... Davis sticks with him and he blows up his staff. I'll say this... if the team goes into 2018 w/ this staff, there is no hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 55 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Good point actually. Del Rio was an uninspired hire when he came in. A guy you knew could motivate and get a team to the playoffs, but that was his ceiling. What's been a head scratcher for me is how poorly the defenses have been given his background. Also his loyalty to a poor (forced) DC hire is questionable. My guess.... Davis sticks with him and he blows up his staff. I'll say this... if the team goes into 2018 w/ this staff, there is no hope. I wish I could save all these statements in a time capsule for the end of the year. I never wanna dig thru stuff from months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer026 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 7 hours ago, big_palooka said: Everything you're writing is based on his past. After spending the last decade in a comfortable analyst job, why would he want to come back? Second, if he did come back, what guy are you actually getting? Will he have the same fire and tireless work ethic. I'd question all of that. Personally... if you want someone from the Walsh, Holmgren, Andy Reid tree there is a guy I've mentioned in the past who deserves another shot. Pat Shurmur. He's currently running a very successful offense in Minnesota with Keenum as his QB. He's been great at molding QBs over the years. His offenses are dynamic and creative in the WCO style. He fizzled in Cleveland.... but who hasn't? Gruden... I love the guy for the what he did in Oakland, but turning back time would seem like a desperate move. I wanted either JDR or Shurmur at the time. I definitely think Shurmur deserves another shot somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 To be honest maybe this offense will get on track under Downing, but it may be too little too late if it doesn't start next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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