GDT 28/11/21 Week 12: Cleveland Browns @ Baltimore Ravens on SNF

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

Agree a lot with your second point. Our team has been too narrow in our pursuit of “weapons” (and a bad fullback wtf) the last three drafts that it’s really showing in a lack of depth in the trenches.  I like Bateman and Hollywood but we could survive without guys like Proche and Boykin in exchange for offensive and defensive line men 

I'm still scratching my head at the Ben Mason pick. Like, what even was that?

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

11 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I'm still scratching my head at the Ben Mason pick. Like, what even was that?

I’m assuming it was intended as a replacement for Ricard but man, “developmental fullback” does nothing to inspire the fan base 

[sp6488]

30 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

I’m assuming it was intended as a replacement for Ricard but man, “developmental fullback” does nothing to inspire the fan base 

I still don't love the pick, but it does make a bit more sense if the team was unsure of Ricard's status coming into the season (as an insurance policy of sorts).

[sp6488]

13 hours ago, baltimoreRebel said:

Yeah, tonight was a gross performance from Lamar but he had his moments. I'll take the good with the bad. 

Lamar has bailed this team out so many times, he deserves at least one mulligan where the team props him up for a week.

[sp6488]

14 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

Have to give some credit to Sam Koch. That field flipping punt in the 4th was a huge play. He's bounced back in a big way since looking completely washed a few weeks back in Miami. He had another one that had a chance of being downed inside the 5, but our ST doesn't seem able to field those.

Between this week and last, there have been at least three instances of the gunners not getting enough depth (IMHO) to play shortstop at the goal line once the returner has called a fair catch. I've been screaming at the TV.

[RavensTillIDie]

3 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

Between this week and last, there have been at least three instances of the gunners not getting enough depth (IMHO) to play shortstop at the goal line once the returner has called a fair catch. I've been screaming at the TV.

Just shooting from the hip, but wonder if that's attributable to a lack of experience playing ST with guys like Wallace.

[sp6488]

14 hours ago, DreamKid said:

 

- Freeman is getting really comfortable within our offense. Doesn't mean all that much because our OL is so bad and ultimately limits what he can do, but it's still cool to see him find his sea legs. He's definitely hit a groove.

OLine has been pretty bad all year, but I do have to lay some of the "blame" on our RBs as far as the season productivity. Last week especially (@ Chi), the OL did give them some holes that went for 4-5 yard gains but would have easily been 15-20+ yard rips with Edwards / JK in the game - they simply weren't able to hit the holes fast enough before traffic got in there at ~second level.

[sp6488]

Just now, RavensTillIDie said:

Just shooting from the hip, but wonder if that's attributable to a lack of experience playing ST with guys like Wallace.

Could be.  Obviously first responsibility is the returner / lane discipline. Maybe more experience would help with processing where to posiiton once the FC is called. Alternatively, maybe guys aren't getting a great read on where the ball is going to come down and are trying to get those bearings before getting in position on the bounce. I really don't know the issue, but it's happened more than a one-off at this point.

[sp6488]

17 hours ago, Boodgyman5220 said:

What is happening in Cleveland with all these substitution problems? Somebodies gonna get fired after this game.

Cracked me up when the broadcast crew made the comment about them not getting the opportunity to match substitutions. Looked like they had 12 on the field already and it had nothing to do with them not having an opportunity to respond to Ravens.

[DreamKid]

PFF is doing us an enormous favor by entering into this weird relationship with Patrick Queen. Their LB grades are widely accepted as garbage, but it's almost like they enjoy messing with PQ. All it does though, is make him work harder and improve quicker imo. So I hope they keep at it.

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 hours ago, DreamKid said:

PFF is doing us an enormous favor by entering into this weird relationship with Patrick Queen. Their LB grades are widely accepted as garbage, but it's almost like they enjoy messing with PQ. All it does though, is make him work harder and improve quicker imo. So I hope they keep at it.

 

Giving him a 59 grade after literally writing an article praising him is some next level PFF tom foolery.

[sp6488]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Giving him a 59 grade after literally writing an article praising him is some next level PFF tom foolery.

I really don't know what they could have possibly found in review to warrant such a downward revision. Even if he wasn't great on coverage (but wasn't really targeted) or something that doesn't pop out on the broadcast viewing, there's really no way for it to represent that much of a subsequent adjustment. That would be normal ILB stuff.

[drd23]

8 hours ago, sp6488 said:

I really don't know what they could have possibly found in review to warrant such a downward revision. Even if he wasn't great on coverage (but wasn't really targeted) or something that doesn't pop out on the broadcast viewing, there's really no way for it to represent that much of a subsequent adjustment. That would be normal ILB stuff.

Probably misunderstood some more assignments like the time one of their "analysts" posted a clip on Twitter laughing at PQ "running away from the QB" until it was pointed out that his assignment was to pin the LG to allow for an OLB to loop inside (effectively making it a T-E stunt), which led to the original tweet being hastily disappointed 

[diamondbull424]

17 hours ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

Agree a lot with your second point. Our team has been too narrow in our pursuit of “weapons” (and a bad fullback wtf) the last three drafts that it’s really showing in a lack of depth in the trenches.  I like Bateman and Hollywood but we could survive without guys like Proche and Boykin in exchange for offensive and defensive line men 

For this team it’s been more difficult to secure weapons than OL. It’s impossible ahead of time to know whether Hayden Hurst (1st) or Mark Andrews (3rd) will be the superior talent. Just like an undersized Hollywood Brown (1st) vs Miles Boykin (3rd). The team had a weakness in their drafting portfolio and aggressively pursued that to fix it. They’ve fixed the issue, one that went decades without being fixed.

And while the law of diminishing returns is completely true and thus assets could’ve, in hindsight been used in a more calculated fashion. More often than LODR is an issue, we see an underestimation of the level of commitment needed to produce a positive result. That has been the history of the Ravens WR weapons for the last 25 years, in fact.

Thus the criticism of overcommitting to the WR position is purely benefitted by hindsight bias. Had we under committed, we might’ve ended up with undersupplying assets and competition that would’ve led to a completely reduced outcome with the same breakout options we currently have on board. Maybe scaling back the receiver draft commitment would’ve lead to less WR competition and thus less growth from the current breakout performers.

20 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Things I was wrong about: Bowser being a bum. He has made me eat crow the past couple of weeks and I hope he continues to do so for the rest of his career. He’s never going to be a + pass rusher but he’s shown the propensity to get their more this year and his all around game is one of the things holding this sub-par defense (starting to get better though) every week.

Things I was right about: A good OL being more important to Lamar Jackson’s success than “weapons”. Preached it all offseason but we saw in 2019 that Lamar is the type of player who - if he’s feeling confident - can take over games regardless of who he’s throwing to. He looked like an all-timer throwing to Seth Roberts and Willie Snead. But it’s because he trusted his OL and they allowed him time to do his miraculous type ish that we saw weekly. It’s just so, so clear that Lamar doesn’t trust this OL, and despite the better weapons, he can’t get the ball to them. He’s shrinking in the pocket and throwing off base the second the ball is snapped because he’s worried about getting sacked. And his ability to extend plays is being nullified by just how bad the OL is because it’s 3-4 guys getting beat every single play. Lamar can make 2-3 guys miss. Not 4-5 every single play. Feeling pretty justified in the temper tantrum I had about the OL vs Weapon issue this offseason that flared up in some threads.

8-3. It’s a gross 8-3 but it’s 8-3. I just don’t see this offense scoring enough points with this OL in the playoffs to win a game. But at least it’s looking more and more likely that we’ll get a shot. 

The OL isn’t good. Yet the standard this team is to be measured against isn’t regular season offense. The weapons last season were trash and then over relied upon Hollywood and Andrews, we’ve rectified that.

The OL however was about similar overall, trading a PB OT option, game killing snap issues, and a rookie Tyre Phillips being abused for AV and Ben Powers consistently below average play, with average to above average swings from the other 3 spots.

The playoffs is where the true test of weapons vs OL should be judged and factored. To this point the Ravens OL in each season has imploded come playoff time and have left the weaponless Ravens offense as being the Lamar and Hollywood show as teams refused to allow Andrews to get going. That formula has provided us with 1 playoff win since Lamar has taken over in 2018.

This season we have a plethora of weapons and a weakness at OL that is obvious going into any potential playoff run we may have. If/when the OL implodes as per usual, if we’re able to make it into the AFCCG+ and/or get 1 win and perform like a capable offense throughout the playoffs, all while having significantly worse RB weapons… than we know this formula provided a superior opportunity cost.

[diamondbull424]

Though I agree that the OL has reached a critical mass and they will need to divert priority draft assets towards it. Particularly solving the LG spot.

Mekari looks like he should be given the RT spot for the future. We’re not getting much better/consistent play than what he’s supplied game in and game out.

So BPA LG to replace Powers. Then let Ben Cleveland develop as the heir apparent/main depth behind stud rookie and aging Kevin Zeitler.

Beyond that I’d invest a day two pick on a LT option. Stanley can’t be relied upon at this point. Also considering bring back AV if he’s willing to take a pay cut with some incentives for PT… as even though he’s below average, he’s not rookie Tyre Phillips level bad. So between Stanley, Phillips, AV, and a day two pick… we should hopefully see LT play to the level we’ve come to expect in franchise history. The stud LG would simply be icing on the cake.