Bush is Not Being Used As a Scapegoat for the Steelers Issues

[Steeler Hitman]

 

I saw an article on Steelers Depot about some tweets that former Steelers ILB Vince WiIliams made in reference to some criticism that Devin Bush has been receiving about his play. The link is below and I wanted to address this topic and get some input because I have some strong opinions on the matter as well.

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/11/vince-williams-on-devin-bush-the-media-is-using-him-as-a-scapegoat-for-steelers-larger-problems/

 

I respect the heck out of Vince Williams and I am typically inclined to follow the views of the players and former players especially those who are not necessarily making points or digs from their new media jobs.  I want to respond to some comments made by Vince, offer my opinion, and solicit the thoughts and opinions of others in this group.

 

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Devin is coming off a major surgery.

Realistically, I don't think anyone expected Devin to be all that he was prior to his injury in 2021. However, the fact is that his play and perceived effort seems to be less than it was his first two seasons. Devin made mistakes and got beat, but Devin looked like he hustled more. I am not basing this on results of play or lack of only, but the body language, leadership, and comfort that he is playing with. 

Realistically, it takes two years to get back to normal after reconstructive surgery. But Devin is often out of position, has trouble reading plays, shedding blocks, pursuing or flowing downhill, and splash plays are way down after 11 games in 2021 compared to what he did as a rookie and his five games in 2020. 

Where Devin lost some of this (pass from fans) is in his comments, opinions, and the perception that he does not study. He looks lost out there sometimes and is not playing with fire and passion. Those (fire and passion) are staples of playing ILB in Pittsburgh! 

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His coaches (position) wife died,

Jerry O is a former Steelers player and current Steelers coach and all of Steelers Nation feels compassion for Coach O and his family. Tragedy is tough for everyone to navigate and some do it better than others. This is his chosen profession NFL ILB for the Pittsburgh Steelers and still must do what he is paid to do. 

Perhaps use the tragedy to inspire and honor your position coach whom you love and respect? Despite Coach O's loss, I don't think he (Coach O) wants to see Devin's play suffer because he (Coach O) has to deal with a very serious loss. When those you love hurt, you hurt. I get that and most (mature and caring) fans do as well. Devin still has to practice, play, and perform.

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and he's missing two of his starting D Linemen

Injuries are and will always be a part of the game. I know that people say next man up, but Tuitt and Tyson are not easy to replace. Carlos Davis also seems to be missed. Wormley, Buggs, and Mondeaux are limited, but playing the best they can. Devin is a top ten draft pick and was playing at arguably a pro bowl level before getting hurt last year. Devin's play has not elevated and his play has not elevated the play of Buggs, Wormley, and Mondeaux. The DL's don't get a pass with their play and neither does Devin who is a higher ranked and profiled player than those three back-ups. 

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People called Bud a bust and then begged him to take a hometown discount to stay.

Bud and Devin are both #1's but Devin comes with much higher expectations than Bud. I will defer this to Vince, but my perception of the two is that Bud was more mature, a harder worker, and displayed more leadership and drive to succeed early than Devin is displaying in year three. I also think that Devin was a more complete and polished football player coming out than Bud. Both are tremendous natural athletes, but I think Devin is a more instinctual football player than Bud was at that point. 

Despite some questions about his talent, Bud showed he was through and through a Steeler.  Bud is the same young guy that called out potential a future HOF and DPOY in James Harrison for his attitude and the resect given to the coaching staff. Not saying Devin is the same player or at the same point as Bud was, but that is why people respect Bud because he got better each year and worked his tail off. 

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BTW Devin is 23 years old. If he plays till he's 30 that's 7 years to turn his career.

With all due respect to #98, the NFL stands for not for long when you are a ILB who can't tackle well, shed blocks, pursue from sideline to sideline, and cover RB's and TE's. No team is going to wait around for two more years let alone seven. 

My opinion is that Devin's issues are more mental than physical.  I don't know him and never met him, but the perception is that he is immature or an immature 23. I never met Bud either, but my opinion of him is much different based on his work ethic, actions, and what he displayed. 

I would be surprised if Devin Bush said he was fine with his play. I think Devin Bush has a higher standard for his performance than what it has been. What is he doing to change it? Accept it, learn from it, and improve. Success breeds confidence. Confidence breeds swag. Swag breeds impact. Impact breeds success. Despite some criticism, we all want that from Devin. Devin's play warrants criticism right now. 

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Devin’s game has always centered around explosion and power. It takes an athlete 8-12 months just to get back from an ACL. It’s going to take at least double that to get back the high level of cutting and exploding that’s needed to look like a top 10 pick.

I agree and acknowledged this earlier. However, the issue is not that he is just being outrun, over powered, or not able to explode as he could pre injury, but the perceived effort and positioning. He was not expected to be a superstar, but he has underwhelmed in his play and the expectations. Again, a lot is perceived effort and his tackling and aggressiveness has not been there. 

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His effort could and should be better.

That is it in a nutshell. Everyone has a higher expectation of Devin's play and performance than what he has displayed. Key word is "EFFORT."  That is what seems to be missing and is the main point. Like Bud his play is being questioned. Unlike Bud, Devin's commitment, effort, and attitude are things that fans are disappointed with and the media is on him about. 

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BUT how can you ask him to lead the defense coming off that injury at 23…. while his confidence is in shambles????

I don't think anyone is expecting Devin to lead the defense this year or next. The team's defensive leaders are Cam Heyward, TJ Watt, and Minkah Fitzpatrick. Steelers Nation is expecting Devin to be the best version of Devin that he was drafted to be. He has fallen woefully short thus far in 2021.

The entire team has not played to its full expectations. There are various reasons why. We can make excuses, give reasons, rationalize, and justify, but most fans are upset when the effort does not seem to be there. The entire team took the hit in the court of public opinion there. The defense has given up 82 points the past two games.  The team got out hit, out hustled, out played, and out coached against the Bengals. A team who said that you quit the first game. The way the team played last Sunday, it looked that way again. 

No one likes losing, but losing without playing your best is upsetting. Devin is not exempt from criticism as the criticism will continue to come until the perception of effort is changed.

 

Thoughts???

 

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This is obviously bigger than Devin and the media is using him as a scapegoat. It’s easy to pick on an underperforming top pick. Let’s not burry someone pre maturely because it’s convenient.

 

[43M]

The criticism of him is completely warranted.   He is a highly drafted starting PROFESSIONAL football player playing like dog poo.  

The excuses don't mean much to me.   If he turns it around next year....great.  I dont have faith he will.   I was more optimistic about Dupree, but at least Dupree always had the athleticism to keep you excited.   Bush is far closer to Jarvis Jones than Bud Dupree.

As Ive noted numerous times, I wasnt a big fan of his even at Michigan.   He was a splash player type that usually looked great compared to lesser athletes and weaker competition, but would routinely get washed out of plays when he got a body on him.   Michigan often gameplanned him to avoid blockers as much as possible, and we see why.   Several games his final college year were extremely underwhelming, including vs Penn St (even though Michigan destroyed us).

I wasnt COMPLETELY against taking him in the first round in 2019, because I felt he had untapped potential, but I hated that we traded up to get him.    

Bush is only 23 and I respect that coming back from a major knee injury in less than a year is tough.   I wouldn't be shocked to see a moderate improvement in 2022....but most of his issues were issues before his injury.    I dont expect to ever get top tier LB play out if him, because I frankly dont believe he has that type of talent.

Just a completely underwhelming player.   His injury may have made things worse, but he has never impressed me outside of a few plays...but I could say that about many mediocre players.

I hope Im wrong about him.  I really do.   At this point, he looks not only easily replaceable, but easily UPGRADABLE.

Edited December 2, 2021 by 43M

[CKSteeler]

The fact that Bush hasn't been benched isn't an indictment of the entire coaching staff. Not just because he sucks. A lot of current Steelers suck at what they do. No, his complete lack of effort clearly visible to anyone even casually watching the games makes it unacceptable for him to see the field. Bush's replacement would likely suck, whichever guy that may be. But at least Spillane or Buddy Johnson would be putting forth some effort while sucking. 

It's the effort that kills me. He was sold to the fanbase as a football junkie. A leader. And he's out there 

And to be clear, Williams likely has a soft spot for Bush. He played with him. But this Bush isn't the same guy Williams played with his first two seasons. That guy actually seemed to like the game of football even if he was still a project. Keeping Bush out there right now is a disservice to Bush himself as a player and a person as well as his teammates.

Edited December 2, 2021 by CKSteeler

[jebrick]

Bush is a LB that needs to be clean so losing Alualu/competent NT hurts but he still takes bad angles and is slow to read.

 

Now the Steelers had another 1st round ILB who operated in much the same way and was considered a bust for 2.5 seasons.  I just have to hope that most of this is Bush not getting it and he will catch up to the speed of play like Shazier did.

[warfelg]

47 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Bush is a LB that needs to be clean so losing Alualu/competent NT hurts but he still takes bad angles and is slow to read.

 

Now the Steelers had another 1st round ILB who operated in much the same way and was considered a bust for 2.5 seasons.  I just have to hope that most of this is Bush not getting it and he will catch up to the speed of play like Shazier did.

I hate hate hate when people say this. 
 

For one reason:

Shazier had passion. He was making bad reads but he was moving. 
Bush plays with no heart. He’s flat. Literally. He has a play a drive where you see him just standing there then slow jogging to a player that hasn’t gone down yet. 

[Steeler Hitman]

11 hours ago, 43M said:

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The criticism of him is completely warranted.   He is a highly drafted starting PROFESSIONAL football player playing like dog poo.  

 

Truth! Preach! I am one who has rationalized and look at the why's to justify, but I don't do that for a lack of perceived effort!

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The excuses don't mean much to me.   If he turns it around next year....great.  I don't have faith he will.   I was more optimistic about Dupree, but at least Dupree always had the athleticism to keep you excited.   Bush is far closer to Jarvis Jones than Bud Dupree.

Another thing that I would tend to agree with you on right now. I don't think Jarvis had the physical skills, Bush is somewhat frustrating because he has all of the tools. Again, not expecting him to be the second coming of **** Butkis or Ray Lewis, but the effort is the issue for me.

 

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As I've noted numerous times, I wasn't a big fan of his even at Michigan.   He was a splash player type that usually looked great compared to lesser athletes and weaker competition, but would routinely get washed out of plays when he got a body on him.   Michigan often gameplanned him to avoid blockers as much as possible, and we see why.   Several games his final college year were extremely underwhelming, including vs Penn St (even though Michigan destroyed us).

Yes, I remember you giving the counter points on Bush before and after the draft. This year, he has done some of the things that you questioned. Again, I am surprised and disappointed in the effort.

 

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I wasn't COMPLETELY against taking him in the first round in 2019, because I felt he had untapped potential, but I hated that we traded up to get him.    

Bush is only 23 and I respect that coming back from a major knee injury in less than a year is tough.   I wouldn't be shocked to see a moderate improvement in 2022....but most of his issues were issues before his injury.    I don't expect to ever get top tier LB play out if him, because I frankly don't believe he has that type of talent.

 

Despite what I am seeing now, I am not ready to cast him off. However, the things that he can control he hasn't. He is developing and can certainly turn adversity into a positive if handled correctly. What style of motivation is needed for that? Not sure if he needs a kick in the pants and go get them like you can speech or the encouragement, support, and a hug from VW. 

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Just a completely underwhelming player.   His injury may have made things worse, but he has never impressed me outside of a few plays...but I could say that about many mediocre players.

+1

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I hope I'm wrong about him.  I really do.   At this point, he looks not only easily replaceable, but easily UPGRADABLE.

Hard and painful truths! I hope he proves all of his doubters wrong. I am not sure that I actually doubt his ability as much as I am sorely disappointed in what I see in him and I have a higher level of expectation from Devin's play, leadership and example.  Yeah, I am disappointed in him. 

 

8 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

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The fact that Bush hasn't been benched isn't an indictment of the entire coaching staff. Not just because he sucks. A lot of current Steelers suck at what they do.

You bring up a good point. Are they helping him by supporting him and letting him play through it or further hurting his confidence and effort in feeling defeated?

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No, his complete lack of effort clearly visible to anyone even casually watching the games makes it unacceptable for him to see the field. Bush's replacement would likely suck, whichever guy that may be. But at least Spillane or Buddy Johnson would be putting forth some effort while sucking. 

Success is often only measured by results and no the effort put forth. I loved Dirty Red when he was here and I am sorry he didn't get to play back when the game was different. I think he would have been very much like Larry Foote in the early to mid 2000's. Players like Dirty Red and Spillane play hard despite their physical limitations. It is hard to see a gifted athlete play down. I am giving the pass for not being 100% healthy, but he gets no quarter for the lack of effort and defeatist perception that he sometimes gives on the field. 

Sucking is simply not giving a damn and not putting forth effort. You get beat, you get beat. Don't let it be because you rolled over and quit. I like Devin Bush and supported the draft pick, etc. But I cannot give him a pass on the effort displayed. Very disappointed in what I have been seeing.

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It's the effort that kills me. He was sold to the fanbase as a football junkie. A leader. And he's out there 

Amen! That is it in a nutshell. You can be hurt and still be a leader. You can be recovering and still put forth effort. You can be hurt and learn to improve your craft (reading offenses, positioning, tackling). Get the mental together while the physical heals!

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And to be clear, Williams likely has a soft spot for Bush. He played with him. But this Bush isn't the same guy Williams played with his first two seasons.

I have no problem with VW showing support and love. While I don't agree with his rationalizations of Devin's play maybe he knows or just thinks he needs support more than a kick in the pants. Despite my criticism, I am not against Devin, just disappointed in his play and especially his effort.

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That guy actually seemed to like the game of football even if he was still a project. Keeping Bush out there right now is a disservice to Bush himself as a player and a person as well as his teammates.

I don't know if benching him helps his confidence or lowers it, but no doubt he is doing a disservice to himself and the team with his play, body language, and effort. 

 

1 minute ago, jebrick said:

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Bush is a LB that needs to be clean so losing Alualu/competent NT hurts

I blame the front office on this one. I have been saying for the past couple years to go get a true NG. I have lobbied for Dany Shelton and others to be brought in or a higher caliber NG to be drafted. Some argued that the Steelers don't play the base enough to warrant an investment in that type on NG. Tyson is truly not a NG. Late November, December, and into the play-offs teams will run on you. If you have a smallish-fast ILB that needs to stay clean, then give him the players to keep him clean. Schobert is a tackling machine, but needs to be kept clean as well. Most MLB's can be solid to good when they don't have to shed a bunch of blockers. Our ILB's are not Levon Kirkland or Earl Holmes anymore.  Wormley should be a relief piece. Mondeaux and Buggs should be on the PS. You get some decent depth to keep your DL fresh and in the event of an injury. Tuitt is a much harder piece to replace with what the Steelers like to do. Tyson's role could have been modified/enhanced with a Danny Shelton type player to rotate in and Tyson would be able to spell Cam and Tuitt inside in a perfect world. For the love of baby Jesus, get a true NG next year. Speedy ILB's need to be able to run downhill and flow to the ball and not having 230 lb's fighting 330 lb OG's. 

 

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but he still takes bad angles and is slow to read.

Bush owns that. Study, stud, study, and get a mentor young fells. 

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Now the Steelers had another 1st round ILB who operated in much the same way and was considered a bust for 2.5 seasons. 

High character guy and he still busted his butt. He got beat, got out muscled, was out of position, over pursued, but no one ever questioned his heart and effort. There have been many players who underwhelmed by results, but rarely were the efforts questioned. 

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I just have to hope that most of this is Bush not getting it and he will catch up to the speed of play like Shazier did.

I agree that some of it is just that. I hope and believe he can make up for that. The concerning part is the effort. You can't give, teach, or coach passion. It has to come from within.

 

[warfelg]

I also am not sold that benching Bush is the right move unless you are ready to move on completely. He’s an athlete that hasn’t learned the fame. I think benching him will only get him to think he could have made every missed play. I think him continually getting completely embarrassed will eventually get him to take the mental side more seriously. 
 

Not saying moving on from him would be bad, but if you bench him you might as well completely move on. 

[Steeler Hitman]

4 minutes ago, warfelg said:

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I hate hate hate when people say this. 

I am definitely with you on your comments here and below.

It is a fact that Devin Bush needs to be clean to be most effective. Truthfully so does Joe Schobert.  This statement is not giving him a pass for his lack of passion and effort. As I stated in my responses, the team knows that they don't have the Jammer/Thumper type ILB. Get some more beef inside. The Steelers are suffering on offense and defense because they are getting bullied at the LOS on both sides of the ball Period! They do not have enough people movers on the offensive and defensive lines. 
 

For one reason:

Shazier had passion. He was making bad reads but he was moving. 
Bush plays with no heart. He’s flat. Literally. He has a play a drive where you see him just standing there then slow jogging to a player that hasn’t gone down yet. 

I am pretty much saying the same thing you did here. 

[warfelg]

Sorry for the double post; but I think we should have had another LB and let Bush sit longer. If VWill thinks he’s still not right, it’s a FO and coaching failure to play him the way they did. 

[jebrick]

38 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I blame the front office on this one. I have been saying for the past couple years to go get a true NG. I have lobbied for Dany Shelton and others to be brought in or a higher caliber NG to be drafted. Some argued that the Steelers don't play the base enough to warrant an investment in that type on NG. Tyson is truly not a NG. Late November, December, and into the play-offs teams will run on you. If you have a smallish-fast ILB that needs to stay clean, then give him the players to keep him clean. Schobert is a tackling machine, but needs to be kept clean as well. Most MLB's can be solid to good when they don't have to shed a bunch of blockers. Our ILB's are not Levon Kirkland or Earl Holmes anymore.  Wormley should be a relief piece. Mondeaux and Buggs should be on the PS. You get some decent depth to keep your DL fresh and in the event of an injury. Tuitt is a much harder piece to replace with what the Steelers like to do. Tyson's role could have been modified/enhanced with a Danny Shelton type player to rotate in and Tyson would be able to spell Cam and Tuitt inside in a perfect world. For the love of baby Jesus, get a true NG next year. Speedy ILB's need to be able to run downhill and flow to the ball and not having 230 lb's fighting 330 lb OG's. 

Shaizer needed a NT as well.  This is a defensive change from the Casey Hampton days.  Farrior is like Bush and Shazier in that they are not built to talk on the Oline.  They need to flow through gaps.

The modern hybrid defense needs at least 1 player being that 2 gap run stuffer.  Tomlin, who knows way more about defenses than me, decided he wants a 3 tech there with Heyward playing 5 tech.  I think this is because a majority of teams are passing a lot vs running.  It works well against teams like that ( Buffalo) but poorly against teams that can do a power running game ( Colts, Bears, Ravens Browns, ect).  I always look at BB defense to take cues on what works well and that is playing 2 down linemen in 2 gap and 2 outside players as 1 gap.

 

Steelers are lacking players to play either type of hybrid due to injuries and their failures to draft decent DBs really hurts.

[Steeler Hitman]

3 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Shaizer needed a NT as well.  This is a defensive change from the Casey Hampton days.  Farrior is like Bush and Shazier in that they are not built to talk on the Oline.  They need to flow through gaps.

I agree!!! To your point Farrior was considered a bust with the Jets until he came to Pittsburgh and switched positions and scheme. 

The modern hybrid defense needs at least 1 player being that 2 gap run stuffer.  Tomlin, who knows way more about defenses than me, decided he wants a 3 tech there with Heyward playing 5 tech. 

At times it works with Cam and Tuitt's size and abilities, but rarely does he have both. They are also very rare players who have the bodies and skills to do this. Tyson is similar in size, but not n the same style or skillset as Tuitt and Cam. 

I think this is because a majority of teams are passing a lot vs running. 

Agreed. And the lack of solid cover CB's hurts this as well.

It works well against teams like that ( Buffalo) but poorly against teams that can do a power running game ( Colts, Bears, Ravens Browns, etc.).  I always look at BB defense to take cues on what works well and that is playing 2 down linemen in 2 gap and 2 outside players as 1 gap.

I am sure that you have said this before in different threads and I also agree. There are no other players who can do what Tuitt and Cam do for their size and style. Maybe they see Loudermilk as that guy once he develops, but you need more. 

Steelers are lacking players to play either type of hybrid due to injuries and their failures to draft decent DBs really hurts.

Yes. Spot on.

[43M]

2 hours ago, jebrick said:

Shaizer needed a NT as well.  This is a defensive change from the Casey Hampton days.  Farrior is like Bush and Shazier in that they are not built to talk on the Oline.  They need to flow through gaps.

The modern hybrid defense needs at least 1 player being that 2 gap run stuffer.  Tomlin, who knows way more about defenses than me, decided he wants a 3 tech there with Heyward playing 5 tech.  I think this is because a majority of teams are passing a lot vs running.  It works well against teams like that ( Buffalo) but poorly against teams that can do a power running game ( Colts, Bears, Ravens Browns, ect).  I always look at BB defense to take cues on what works well and that is playing 2 down linemen in 2 gap and 2 outside players as 1 gap.

 

Steelers are lacking players to play either type of hybrid due to injuries and their failures to draft decent DBs really hurts.

Main difference is, Shazier and Farrior were both MUCH smarter players than Bush has ever been.        Shazier wasnt notably impressive early on either, but he was 1) a better player coming out, 2) a significantly better athlete (or at least, significantly better at using his athletic prowess), and 3) he made leaps in his progression every year.   Bush is going in the wrong direction.

Bush's hype coming out was laughably overblown.   He likely shouldve been a 2nd or 3rd round pick, and mostly because of upside.     There have been numerous linebackers who were better college players over the years that went in the mid rounds.

I do believe that Bush could get better with the right players around him, but he isnt the type of talent you hope for when you trade up and draft them in the top 10.    Im not saying he has to be Patrick Willis, but you can get Bush level players in the mid rounds.

Edited December 2, 2021 by 43M

[MOSteelers56]

Bush had the athleticism of an elite ILB prospect, but his size left a lot to be desired. His lack of splash plays in college were also worrisome. 

[43M]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

I also am not sold that benching Bush is the right move unless you are ready to move on completely. He’s an athlete that hasn’t learned the fame. I think benching him will only get him to think he could have made every missed play. I think him continually getting completely embarrassed will eventually get him to take the mental side more seriously. 
 

Not saying moving on from him would be bad, but if you bench him you might as well completely move on. 

Given how many players we have to replace in 2022, there is no reason to bench him or move on from him right now.

He is horrible....and I wish we were in position to be able to move on immediately, but we need to afford him every opportunity to turn it around, because thats just one more hole we have to fill.

Id honestly rather replace Schobert and hope Bush can bounce back a little in 2022.   Maybe bring in someone to compete against him and push him a little.     

Even though I dont have much faith in Bush,  Id much rather focus at addressing the trenches and secondary in 2022, and then hope Bush can show some kind of improvement.

At this rate, there is no chance he is getting his 5th year option, but if he bounces back next year, maybe sign him on a cheap, one year "prove it" deal in 2023.

[43M]

3 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Bush had the athleticism of an elite ILB prospect, but his size left a lot to be desired. His lack of splash plays in college were also worrisome. 

I believe his athleticism was pretty overrated. 

Well, let me rephrase that....

I believe a player like Shazier was much better at utilizing his athleticism than Bush.