⏰ to completely clean house

[NYRaider]

39 minutes ago, Geezy said:

I’ll give you the Giants and maybe the WFT but home many drops did we have vs the Bears? Also the whole team came out flat. Ruggs killed someone the week of the Giants game, if you didn’t remember.

The Giants, Bears, and WFT are all terrible teams, literally 3 of the worst in the entire NFL. 

Against the Giants we were winning 13-10 and Carr threw a pick 6 early in the third quarter. We had a chance to tie the game late and he fumbled the ball, sealing the loss. 

Against WFT we had a chance to secure the win late in the game but Carr crumbled in the red zone and we settled for a FG, then lost the game. 

Against the Bears we had the ball with a chance to tie it late in the 4th quarter but turned it over on downs. 

[Jeremy408]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

While I agree, he won't be missed. What did you want to see him to do in season to show what he's about? Not a lot he can do in season aside from manage the roster. 

this.

[Jeremy408]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Mark Davis to me is like the anti-Al Davis. Al was known for being a trailblazer that never played it safe and took chances on players that most other teams wouldn't touch. I mean he bought the Raiders for like $10,000 and then built them into a multi billion dollar, global brand. That's one of Mark's biggest issues, imo. The vast majority of owners in the NFL were extremely successful in other fields and have built some of the biggest and most profitable companies in the world. That's how they had the funds to purchase an NFL team to begin with. Mark is just an owner because he's a trust fund baby but has never had to grind or build anything his entire life so he has no idea what it takes to build a winner or a winning culture. 

I personally think that Mark will retain Mayock this off-season out of fear.

It's funny because the thing that makes Mark Davis whack is the opposite of what people didn't like about Al Davis. Al was too involved in the football side of things and Mark Davis is not involved enough

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

It's funny because the thing that makes Mark Davis whack is the opposite of what people didn't like about Al Davis. Al was too involved in the football side of things and Mark Davis is not involved enough

Mark doesn't need to be involved at all, he just needs to stop hiring people he has seen on TV that haven't proven they can build or coach in the modern NFL. 

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

IMO, he failed to take the reigns. From the minute Gruden was gone, this was Mayock's regime, if he wanted it. Mark is a doof. Rich was an interim. Mayock had the golden opportunity to step up big and make his mark on the franchise, really rally up goodwill, and show that he's got the goods to turn this ship around. He just hasn't done so. 

Again... what moves would you have suggested he makes that would make a mark on the franchise? With no draft and no FA all he could do is tweak things as the come. Not sure what more we expected here.

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

He could have maybe pursued OBJ who has been tearing it up with the Rams instead of 40 year old DJaxx has done Jaxx Ish for us.

OBJ got to pick where he wanted to go. He wasn't picking Vegas, let's use some common sense on this one.

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I personally think that Mark will retain Mayock this off-season out of fear.

I don't think he's that dumb, is he?

I'm not defending Mayock, I thought it was a stupid hire to start with. Only way to truly know what he'd do post Gruden is to keep him on and see what the draft/FA look like in his vision. But nobody wants that.

IMO, Davis will try another miracle worker and give him full control of the team which will again, backfire. 

[ronjon1990]

3 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Again... what moves would you have suggested he makes that would make a mark on the franchise? With no draft and no FA all he could do is tweak things as the come. Not sure what more we expected here.

"He's had several times he could've made an impression (Gruden's canning, Ruggs killing someone, Arnette being a Class A moron, etc.

IMO, he failed to take the reigns. From the minute Gruden was gone, this was Mayock's regime, if he wanted it. Mark is a doof. Rich was an interim. Mayock had the golden opportunity to step up big and make his mark on the franchise, really rally up goodwill, and show that he's got the goods to turn this ship around. He just hasn't done so. 

Now, I understand that there's only so much he could have done to fundamentally alter the course of the season. I don't hold that against him entirely. But you absolutely have to take your shot and run with it with whatever opportunity you get, regardless of how limited a shot that may be. 

Instead of asserting himself as the head honcho we need in a GM, I've come away feeling like his abilities consist of being Gruden's apologist and a proxy PR guy to defend the objectively bad moves made over the last few seasons. 

He, in my opinion, hasn't done anything to indicate that he's fighting hard to keep his job going forward. He's just sort of gone through the motions to get to the end of the year. While I get that it was a tough year all around, you've got to offer more as a GM. You can't just coast along in neutral in the situation he found himself in and expect anyone to want you around"

[NYRaider]

Just now, big_palooka said:

I don't think he's that dumb, is he?

I'm not defending Mayock, I thought it was a stupid hire to start with. Only way to truly know what he'd do post Gruden is to keep him on and see what the draft/FA look like in his vision. But nobody wants that.

IMO, Davis will try another miracle worker and give him full control of the team which will again, backfire. 

I mean Mark really wasn't planning on firing Jon Gruden even after the first set of emails were released. The NFL essentially forced Gruden's "resignation" by continuing to leak emails, they weren't going to stop until he quit or was fired. And even after he resigned Mark was so pissed off about it that he refused to publicly address the situation, IIRC the only thing he said was "ask the NFL, they have all the answers." 

There have also been recent reports that he hasn't even started the coaching search because he was focused on the team making the playoffs this season. The Jaguars fired Urban Meyer already and the Bears have already indicated that Nagy and Pace are gone so that they can both get a head start on identifying new candidates. If we are going to move on from Mayock then ideally we'd do it sooner rather than later because we need to have a GM in place before we can start the search for a new head coach. 

Q, the host of the locked on Raiders podcast who covers the team locally and is always in the press box shared an interesting tidbit after the WFT game. He said that someone who works in the front office told him that the team knows the current product is unacceptable and Mark is feeling the heat at home games seeing a ton of empty seats and opposing fans at games. With the cost of tickets and making the trip to Vegas it's difficult to expect fans to be dedicated to attending games if the team isn't very good. 

So with that in mind I think Mark will go the safe route by keeping Mayock as the GM, extending Carr, and looking to retool the roster as opposed to a total rebuild. Because he understands that in a new market with a brand new stadium/expensive tickets, it's a difficult sell to the fans. 

[Jeremy408]

10 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

"He's had several times he could've made an impression (Gruden's canning, Ruggs killing someone, Arnette being a Class A moron, etc.

IMO, he failed to take the reigns. From the minute Gruden was gone, this was Mayock's regime, if he wanted it. Mark is a doof. Rich was an interim. Mayock had the golden opportunity to step up big and make his mark on the franchise, really rally up goodwill, and show that he's got the goods to turn this ship around. He just hasn't done so. 

Now, I understand that there's only so much he could have done to fundamentally alter the course of the season. I don't hold that against him entirely. But you absolutely have to take your shot and run with it with whatever opportunity you get, regardless of how limited a shot that may be. 

Instead of asserting himself as the head honcho we need in a GM, I've come away feeling like his abilities consist of being Gruden's apologist and a proxy PR guy to defend the objectively bad moves made over the last few seasons. 

He, in my opinion, hasn't done anything to indicate that he's fighting hard to keep his job going forward. He's just sort of gone through the motions to get to the end of the year. While I get that it was a tough year all around, you've got to offer more as a GM. You can't just coast along in neutral in the situation he found himself in and expect anyone to want you around"

Just for my personal clarification, who are you quoting?

[ronjon1990]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Just for my personal clarification, who are you quoting?

My last post that answered the question "What would you have wanted to see from him"

[NYRaider]

33 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

"He's had several times he could've made an impression (Gruden's canning, Ruggs killing someone, Arnette being a Class A moron, etc.

IMO, he failed to take the reigns. From the minute Gruden was gone, this was Mayock's regime, if he wanted it. Mark is a doof. Rich was an interim. Mayock had the golden opportunity to step up big and make his mark on the franchise, really rally up goodwill, and show that he's got the goods to turn this ship around. He just hasn't done so. 

Now, I understand that there's only so much he could have done to fundamentally alter the course of the season. I don't hold that against him entirely. But you absolutely have to take your shot and run with it with whatever opportunity you get, regardless of how limited a shot that may be. 

Instead of asserting himself as the head honcho we need in a GM, I've come away feeling like his abilities consist of being Gruden's apologist and a proxy PR guy to defend the objectively bad moves made over the last few seasons. 

He, in my opinion, hasn't done anything to indicate that he's fighting hard to keep his job going forward. He's just sort of gone through the motions to get to the end of the year. While I get that it was a tough year all around, you've got to offer more as a GM. You can't just coast along in neutral in the situation he found himself in and expect anyone to want you around"

Rich looks like a deer in headlights out there and Mayock said this in 2012: 

Quote

“There are 3 to 4 Special Teams coaches who deserve a shot and Rich [Bisaccia] would be at the top of my list. He’s the next John Harbaugh. He would be a guy I would bang the table for.”

I also agree that he really does seem to just be going through the motions and really failed to go for it this year when he had a chance too. I know that the Ruggs news came out almost immediately before the trade deadline but we were 5-2 at the time coming off of our bye week. If he was committed to winning this year he could've just went all in and swung for the fences on a big trade for a receiver. Hell he could've even pursued OBJ but the team almost immediately said they weren't interested in him and opted for old arse DJaxx instead. 

[ronjon1990]

16 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Rich looks like a deer in headlights out there and Mayock said this in 2012: 

I also agree that he really does seem to just be going through the motions and really failed to go for it this year when he had a chance too. I know that the Ruggs news came out almost immediately before the trade deadline but we were 5-2 at the time coming off of our bye week. If he was committed to winning this year he could've just went all in and swung for the fences on a big trade for a receiver. Hell he could've even pursued OBJ but the team almost immediately said they weren't interested in him and opted for old arse DJaxx instead. 

Yep. As I said, I understand that timing of our crap was bad, but a GM worth keeping pushes hard for whatever is needed. 

Mayock seemed to just check out once his boss was gone, which tells me he's not worth keeping around. 

He had his shot and failed to take command of the situation. I don't expect miracles, but Mayock had some golden opportunities to do/say things that make people's ears perk up- even in the midst of the season going to **** for reasons beyond the team's immediate control. He failed miserably at that. 

We were, as you said, 5-2. The season wasn't nearly over despite the shell shock that ensued. A 66 year old toddler and an interim head coach were the only people in a position to challenge him in asserting himself with "I'M THE RAIDERS GENERAL MANAGER, DAMMIT!" and acting like one. He couldn't manage that, and the season suffered for it. 

DJax was a last minute signing, and let's all be perfectly clear on this: Jackson was signed because he had a similar trait to Ruggs- speed.

We targeted a guy for speed, because all Mayock could come up with was a Wish.com replacement instead of swinging for the fences and finding a way to get a WR who may not have world class speed, but has enough talent to make something work. We got speed, for all of handful of snaps Jackson's geriatric *** can even get on the field? Zero creativity there, just an utter reliance on trying to replicate exactly what was lost regardless of the immense drop in actual talent. 

IIRC, we didn't really even make earnest attempts at getting someone from somewhere. Yes, time was short, but you can't tell me some team out there wouldn't have taken a decent pick for a guy they know won't be re-signed.

Would it have sucked to part with, say, a 2nd rounder to Chicago for Robinson when we know he's about to hit FA? Yes. But at 5-2 and a solid team with a window and everything on the line, you at least try to find a way to make a splash and say "Look, we're a good team in 2021. We can win here. We'll worry about what we're gonna do in the Draft and in 2022 when we get there, but right now we are playing to win right now."

Instead, the worst kept secret in sports was that we were just gonna sign LA's sloppy seconds once they secured OBJ. That doesn't show me a GM trying to keep his job. 

That's just 1 personnel move. But there are many other ways that Mayock could have stepped up and taken firm control of the organization, and he's done absolutely none of those things. And if he has tried to, then he's failed miserably at it. 

[NYRaider]

42 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Mayock seemed to just check out once his boss was gone, which tells me he's not worth keeping around. 

He had his shot and failed to take command of the situation. I don't expect miracles, but Mayock had some golden opportunities to do/say things that make people's ears perk up- even in the midst of the season going to **** for reasons beyond the team's immediate control. He failed miserably at that. 

Totally agree with your entire post. We were sitting at 5-2, the first season in Vegas with fans, and he had an opportunity to make a move that could've cemented us as a playoff contender yet chose to sat on his hands instead. Hell Hue Jackson traded a 1st/2nd for Carson Palmer off of the couch mid-season when we were 4-2 because he wanted to make a push for the playoffs and keep his job. 

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

"He's had several times he could've made an impression (Gruden's canning, Ruggs killing someone, Arnette being a Class A moron, etc.

IMO, he failed to take the reigns. From the minute Gruden was gone, this was Mayock's regime, if he wanted it. Mark is a doof. Rich was an interim. Mayock had the golden opportunity to step up big and make his mark on the franchise, really rally up goodwill, and show that he's got the goods to turn this ship around. He just hasn't done so. 

Now, I understand that there's only so much he could have done to fundamentally alter the course of the season. I don't hold that against him entirely. But you absolutely have to take your shot and run with it with whatever opportunity you get, regardless of how limited a shot that may be. 

Instead of asserting himself as the head honcho we need in a GM, I've come away feeling like his abilities consist of being Gruden's apologist and a proxy PR guy to defend the objectively bad moves made over the last few seasons. 

He, in my opinion, hasn't done anything to indicate that he's fighting hard to keep his job going forward. He's just sort of gone through the motions to get to the end of the year. While I get that it was a tough year all around, you've got to offer more as a GM. You can't just coast along in neutral in the situation he found himself in and expect anyone to want you around"

You re-posting this doesn't change anything. You're speaking in platitudes. "make his mark", "show he's got the goods", take your shot and run with with", "asserting himself as head honcho".

My question is HOW? What could he have possibly done that impacted the win column that would push Davis to keep him on as GM in the middle of their season?

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Totally agree with your entire post. We were sitting at 5-2, the first season in Vegas with fans, and he had an opportunity to make a move that could've cemented us as a playoff contender yet chose to sat on his hands instead. Hell Hue Jackson traded a 1st/2nd for Carson Palmer off of the couch mid-season when we were 4-2 because he wanted to make a push for the playoffs and keep his job. 

I'm not a Mayock fans, but comments like this are such hyperbole. What move makes the team a playoff contender? What player was traded at the deadline that could have made them a playoff team? 

There have been 19 players traded since the start of the season and not one of them would be a player that changes the course of the team. 

The trades you are probably upset about are the ones that were rumor mill garbage that had no reality of happening (Cox, Leo Williams, etc). 

[big_palooka]

The cutest part of all of this is that any of you ever thought this was a playoff team. 

The damage was done in April. There was no chance this team was making the playoffs behind this Oline. 

The big plays they had early in the season were not sustainable. They never could establish a running game and you need that late in the season. Defense is no different, they were never going to sustain the level of pass rush they saw early in the season. The've manages 8 sacks in the last 6 games, 4th worst in the league. 

But yes, let's blame Mayock for not making desperate trade. And using Hue Jackson as an argument.... get out of here with that. That trade set the Raiders back years.