BDL Discussion Thread 2022

[Scoundrel]

2 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

No d minus players thus far! 

Damn all busts for me then

[bcb1213]

Day one draft landing grades!  As always, not a grade on player talent, just how I feel thier chances to make an impact year one plus coaching, etc

 

Trayvon Walker-Jacksonville  B+   He starts.  Its a new coaching staff so its hard to judge too much based on past Jags history.  Eagles were solid in developing edges in Philly during the Pederson years but never crafted a superstar edge but didn’t make too many busts either

Aiden Hutchinson  Detroit   A-.  He’ll get all the run you can ask for.  I still like Campbell.  Little worried they messed up Levi last year but getting to stay in Michigan brings an added comfort level

Derek Stingley  Houston   B-  This grade isn’t so much a start or not reduction as it is a scheme one.  I imagine you’d want stingley in more a man based defense for BDL purposes but Lovie is a good D mind who never had a top talent CB drafted when he was in Chicago

Sauce Gardner  Jets  A   This is probably the perfect fit for him.  Going to play the Richard Sherman role for New York

kayvon thibodeaux  Giants  A-   Great fit next to Lawrence and Williams.  Unsure of the fit in a 3-4 4-3 hybrid where he will occasionally be asked to drop into coverage is the only thing holding this back from a regular A

Ikem Okwonu-Panthers  A  getting to be a LT right from the jump is a great value enhancer as some were worried he’d end up on the right side depending on draft landing spot

Evan Neal- Giants   D.  I imagine they will put him at RT which would bring the grade down a lot as Thomas is young and you’re gonna have Neal on the right side for a while.  If you drafted him to be a RT, then this grade goes up into the B+, A- range as hes got a starting spot clinched and Buffalo was solid at developing O Lineman but not great

Drake London Falcons  C-  The only saving grace is that the Falcons are going to be behind so much hes gonna get mega garbage time stats.  Outside of that, you got a bad QB, a TE that soaks up targets and a return of another star receiver in 2023 with a head coach who’d prefer to pound the rock philosophically

Charles Cross Seahawks B+  Obviously starting at LT from day one.  Thats a huge plus.  Unfortunately, the Hawks recent history since Okung at developing OLineman is not great but to be fair, they’ve never taken on this high

Garret Wilson Jets B   Could be an A if Wilson develops, could be a C if he doesn’t.  Should be either the number one or two receiver but I know they love Elijah moore too from the slot so not a huge target share coming his way imo

Chris Olave Saints A   They traded up for him which means they really like him.  They obviously have a need for a WR and Jameis can get the ball to him when he’s not busy throwing it to the other team

Jameson Williams Lions A-  Lions will take their time not rushing him back.  He clearly will be the number one or two target there and definitely will get the deep shots.  Only thing holding this from an A is the Goff factor

Jordan Davis  Eagles  B+  Should start right away.  But the Eagles recent INT picks, Milton Williams, Marvin Wilson have underperformed but obviously neither have the talent of Davis.  Could easily be the next Fletcher Cox

 Kyle Hamilton Ravens  INC-  I truly have no idea how Baltimore is going to use him.  He’s basically the perfect complement to Marcus Williams but they already have a solid safety in Chuck Clark, if they move him then this grade is an easy A with Baltimores talent development but if they use him at LB which is my fear, this turns into a D

Kenyon Green-  Texans  A-  I’m not going to pretend to know who the Texans o line coach is but Green should start right from the word go, so A- cause Houston

Jahan Dotson  Redskins  C+  This is one of the tougher grades.  He’s clearly not going to be a number one, which is good for him.  But this team has a lot of other mouths to feed on that side of the ball with Terry, returning Samuel and Thomas and a solid running duo who also makes catches.  Plus Carson Wentz, i just don’t know

Zion Johnson  Chargers  A+  If you are going to get drafted, let it be between Cory Linsley and Rashawn Slater

Treylon Burks  Titans  A+   Who else is going to catch the ball in Tennessee

Trevor Penning  Saints A  This team has a solid history of developing lineman and he’s going to likely be a LT.  Can’t ask for more.  Reserving the A+ on the long shot they switch Ram to the left side

Kenny Pickett-  Pittsburgh  D+   Yup, i said it.  Steelers suck at developing quarterback and they have an awful offensive line and a coach who wants to run the ball 30+ times a game.  He may start which saves this from the D to D- section

Trent McDuffle  Chiefs  A.  Looking at starting right away in a system that should work well for his skills

Quay Walker  Packers  B+  Another tough grade.  With Campbell there he’s obviously not the number one LB but the Packers generally get the most out of guys at the position and he’ll clearly be the number two LB here so i can’t knock it too much

Kair Elam Bills  A  They obviously like him to move up.  There is a clear need on the roster and he should get playing time.  

Tyler Smith  Cowboys  B   I imagine you were hoping he would be a LT, and he still might for if/when tyron get hurts again, he may end up at RT or even Guard for dallas.  Another tough grade

Tyler Linderbaum Ravens A  it’s like the correct players always fall to baltimore, scary

Jermaine Johnson  Jets  C   As far as playing time/scheme fit/coaching  goes A+.  As far as personal issues/city goes  F, New York is probably the second worst city outside of Vegas for a guy like him to land in.  Hopefully i’m wrong but i’m worried about lifestyle in NY

 Devin Lloyd Jacksonville  A  i mean he’s going to be the number one backer on this team.  Whether thats good or not, i don’t know

Devonte Wyatt Packers-  I refuse to grade this domestic abuse guy

Cole Stange  Pats A+  you get an A plus when you get taken in the first round as a projected third round player. BB clearly likes him and they develop o lineman well in New England.  Home run BDL pick

George Karlaftis  Chiefs  A  If you’re gonna fall in the draft, land in a system with a coach who will get the best out of you and have the chance to start right away.  Great fit for the Spags defense

Daxton Hill Bengals  INC  This falls right in with the Hamilton Pick.  It’s going to be one of those wait and see how they use him things that I can’t predict. Cop out i know but it is what it is

Lewis Cline-  Vikings  A  Gets into the fifth round option and likely to start next to Smith who should complement him well

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

kayvon thibodeaux  Giants  A-   Great fit next to Lawrence and Williams.  Unsure of the fit in a 3-4 4-3 hybrid where he will occasionally be asked to drop into coverage is the only thing holding this back from a regular A

 

4 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

Chris Olave Saints A   They traded up for him which means they really like him.  They obviously have a need for a WR and Jameis can get the ball to him when he’s not busy throwing it to the other team

 

4 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

Zion Johnson  Chargers  A+  If you are going to get drafted, let it be between Cory Linsley and Rashawn Slater

[Scoundrel]

I give Stingley a D- so now does this work the same for me?

[rackcs]

12 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

Evan Neal- Giants   D.  I imagine they will put him at RT which would bring the grade down a lot as Thomas is young and you’re gonna have Neal on the right side for a while.  If you drafted him to be a RT, then this grade goes up into the B+, A- range as hes got a starting spot clinched and Buffalo was solid at developing O Lineman but not great

Yeah, Neal to the Giants was my worst case scenario for precisely the reason you mentioned. Luckily for me though...

12 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

Trevor Penning  Saints A  This team has a solid history of developing lineman and he’s going to likely be a LT.  Can’t ask for more.  Reserving the A+ on the long shot they switch Ram to the left side

Penning will likely play LT. This was also my worst case scenario for Penning though because I'm less confident in him holding up long term at LT. But for now at least I'll be happy that I have one guy in both spots even if it's not how I had it planned.

12 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

Kenny Pickett-  Pittsburgh  D+   Yup, i said it.  Steelers suck at developing quarterback and they have an awful offensive line and a coach who wants to run the ball 30+ times a game.  He may start which saves this from the D to D- section

I'll start off by saying that I hated the Pickett pick for the Steelers but it's hard to think of a better realistic situation for him. Look at a couple seasons ago when Ben went down and we started Rudolph and ******* Duck Hodges and still won games? Wouldn't that be a nice situation for a rookie QB, particularly one in this class, to be in? No QB in this draft was going to come in and be dominant and the #1 guy right away. I'd argue that Pittsburgh specifically is a perfect situation for Pickett since that's his ideal role anyways, being a game manager.

And then as for the OL and sucking at developing QB things, I'm not super convinced either. The OL is probably going to be fairly middle of the pack next season provided everyone stays healthy. Our rookie 4th round LT from last season will presumably continue to improve as he did throughout last season and we signed multiple decent, non-star guys to bolster the interior OL. And for not developing QBs, two points. One, we haven't really tried to much since Ben has been our starter for almost 20 years. Two, our offensive coaching staff has seen a lot of overhaul the last couple of years. This will be the first QB that our OC/QB coach will get to try to develop, and they're starting with a higher level of talent than other attempts in the past.

[Scoundrel]

Thought it was cool Aidan gets to stay home and so does Ickey. Ickey is actually from Charlotte. Lions traded way up for Jameson so that’s cool. And Eagles jumped the Ravens for Davis who gets to develop some pass rush moves behind Cox and Hargrave his rookie year. 

It is cool to see Stingley go that high but yeah I don’t know about the fit. Hopefully he can settle in and have time to see how he is used there in Houston as I have Surtain, Ward, Jaylon and Fulton all ready to go. 

[bcb1213]

5 minutes ago, rackcs said:

Yeah, Neal to the Giants was my worst case scenario for precisely the reason you mentioned. Luckily for me though...

Penning will likely play LT. This was also my worst case scenario for Penning though because I'm less confident in him holding up long term at LT. But for now at least I'll be happy that I have one guy in both spots even if it's not how I had it planned.

I'll start off by saying that I hated the Pickett pick for the Steelers but it's hard to think of a better realistic situation for him. Look at a couple seasons ago when Ben went down and we started Rudolph and ******* Duck Hodges and still won games? Wouldn't that be a nice situation for a rookie QB, particularly one in this class, to be in? No QB in this draft was going to come in and be dominant and the #1 guy right away. I'd argue that Pittsburgh specifically is a perfect situation for Pickett since that's his ideal role anyways, being a game manager.

And then as for the OL and sucking at developing QB things, I'm not super convinced either. The OL is probably going to be fairly middle of the pack next season provided everyone stays healthy. Our rookie 4th round LT from last season will presumably continue to improve as he did throughout last season and we signed multiple decent, non-star guys to bolster the interior OL. And for not developing QBs, two points. One, we haven't really tried to much since Ben has been our starter for almost 20 years. Two, our offensive coaching staff has seen a lot of overhaul the last couple of years. This will be the first QB that our OC/QB coach will get to try to develop, and they're starting with a higher level of talent than other attempts in the past.

I mean Kirk cousins and Jalen hurts win games in the NFL , doesn't mean you want them as your bdl starter 

Secondly maybe it's this oc first qb but I haven't seen a single backup qb in Pittsburgh improve even slightly in Tomkins nearly twenty years. Not one bit 

[SirA1]

1 hour ago, bcb1213 said:

Day one draft landing grades!  As always, not a grade on player talent, just how I feel thier chances to make an impact year one plus coaching, etc

Tyler Smith  Cowboys  B   I imagine you were hoping he would be a LT, and he still might for if/when tyron get hurts again, he may end up at RT or even Guard for dallas.  Another tough grade

 

LG is perfect. Jedrick Wills Jr. is my LT that I traded for last year and should be for the next 2-3 years.

Smith is only 21 so if he develops into a LT eventually great but no need to rush things. I think Guard will help with his penalty issues as he won't be asked to do as much on the inside as the outside. 

Regardless he'll back up Feiler this year for me unless he gets moved elsewhere on the OL.

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, SirA1 said:

LG is perfect. Jedrick Wills Jr. is my LT that I traded for last year and should be for the next 2-3 years.

Smith is only 21 so if he develops into a LT eventually great but no need to rush things. I think Guard will help with his penalty issues as he won't be asked to do as much on the inside as the outside. 

Regardless he'll back up Feiler this year for me unless he gets moved elsewhere on the OL.

IMO if Wills doesn't improve significantly this year, Bitonio will move to LT and he will move to RT after Conklin leaves.

[rackcs]

20 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

I mean Kirk cousins and Jalen hurts win games in the NFL , doesn't mean you want them as your bdl starter 

Secondly maybe it's this oc first qb but I haven't seen a single backup qb in Pittsburgh improve even slightly in Tomkins nearly twenty years. Not one bit 

The fact that Pickett has a low ceiling isn't an argument against his landing spot though. That's all I'm disagreeing with you about is the landing spot grade. I agree that Pickett is a sub-optimal BDL QB but that doesn't change the fact that, in my opinion at least, Pittsburgh is an ideal landing spot to maximize his talent.

These are the QBs the Steelers have drafted since Tomlin was hired in 2007:

2008: Dennis Dixon, 5th round
2013: Landry Jones, 4th round
2017: Joshua Dobbs, 4th round
2018: Mason Rudolph, 3rd round

They never really bothered trying to develop anyone because they had Ben as an established starter by the time Tomlin came in and for the first five years they had Charlie Batch as a good veteran backup. They never took anyone before the third day of the draft until Rudolph. And I'd argue they've maximized Rudolph's limited potential. They also made Dobbs into a serviceable QB who has had stints as a backup with the Jaguars and now the Browns. I think it's a little much to slam them for sucking at developing QBs when they've barely tried to at all and never with as significant an investment as a 1st round caliber player. Plus what I said before about having a new OC/QB coach. Tomlin is a defensive guy, he's not the one really developing these guys.

[Blue]

FWIW, Thibs dropped into coverage a bit at Oregon. Doubt he does that much in New York regardless but the ability to play that role is partly why we (I) valued him so highly.

[SirA1]

1 hour ago, bcb1213 said:

Zion Johnson  Chargers  A+  If you are going to get drafted, let it be between Cory Linsley and Rashawn Slater

 

Per Brandon Staley he is going to play RG. They are keeping the left side together as it was a strength of the OL last year. 

[Scoundrel]

Jordan Davis and Ickey are both from Charlotte and Aidan and Ickey trained together and became really good friends. I like the connections 

[bcb1213]

35 minutes ago, rackcs said:

The fact that Pickett has a low ceiling isn't an argument against his landing spot though. That's all I'm disagreeing with you about is the landing spot grade. I agree that Pickett is a sub-optimal BDL QB but that doesn't change the fact that, in my opinion at least, Pittsburgh is an ideal landing spot to maximize his talent.

These are the QBs the Steelers have drafted since Tomlin was hired in 2007:

2008: Dennis Dixon, 5th round
2013: Landry Jones, 4th round
2017: Joshua Dobbs, 4th round
2018: Mason Rudolph, 3rd round

They never really bothered trying to develop anyone because they had Ben as an established starter by the time Tomlin came in and for the first five years they had Charlie Batch as a good veteran backup. They never took anyone before the third day of the draft until Rudolph. And I'd argue they've maximized Rudolph's limited potential. They also made Dobbs into a serviceable QB who has had stints as a backup with the Jaguars and now the Browns. I think it's a little much to slam them for sucking at developing QBs when they've barely tried to at all and never with as significant an investment as a 1st round caliber player. Plus what I said before about having a new OC/QB coach. Tomlin is a defensive guy, he's not the one really developing these guys.

We can agree to disagree.  Just my opinion.  At the same juncture, if he's in the 13, 17, 18 drafts, hes probably taken in the same round as those other guys.  I realize they had ben but other teams develop backups when there starters are good.  I mean Jimmy G clearly got better even though they had Brady  Rodgers improved even though favre.  Every time Landry and Rudolph got into the game, it was the same ****, same awful play, zero progression.  IMO

[Jlash]

1 hour ago, bcb1213 said:

But the Eagles recent INT picks, Milton Williams,

Milton Williams was just fine as a rookie, and they moved him all around the line. I think Marvin Wilson was an UDFA also.