2022 Offseason Thread

[Jroc04]

Just now, Danger said:

What this also means is that Watson is probably going to cost a lot to acquire again. Probably not quite a Russel Wilson package, but likely multiple FRPs.

I think the asking price goes up because of the teams over bidding each other. Houston has a commodity that’s worthless to them, valuable to everyone else. That can be controlled to an extent. 

[Kiltman]

6 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

You’re talking here say. I’m talking facts. If those women had a leg to stand on then they’d be going after him. Why wouldn’t they? But a grand jury didn’t charge him with one thing. That’s a huge turn in all of this. Huge. 
 

And by no means am I advocating for him to join the Eagles. I’ve said over and over, I’d just rather not at this point, innocent or guilty. But with months and months of investigation and allegations, it’s all bunk. Not a one thing they can charge him with. Unless you’re personally privy to those interviews and police records then I’m going to assume all those allegations are flimsy at best, maybe even all out lies. Until new information is available, if it ever does come out, Watson might look like a creep but there’s possibility of witch hunt. It’s in the realm of possibility now he’s just a kinky dude who did nothing wrong, lawfully. 

I think a lot of it is the nature of what it was. There wasn’t a lot to go off of aside from just picking a side you believed.

He didn’t do anything incriminating in a way that would prove their side of the story. I think they thought the class action style suit would help, evidence by plurality, but it seemingly backfired. As it lumped them all into one shot that missed. 

[Kiltman]

Speaking of “Disgusting acts” involving butts

 

[Daimonas]

23 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

You’re talking here say. I’m talking facts. If those women had a leg to stand on then they’d be going after him. Why wouldn’t they? But a grand jury didn’t charge him with one thing. That’s a huge turn in all of this. Huge. 
 

And by no means am I advocating for him to join the Eagles. I’ve said over and over, I’d just rather not at this point, innocent or guilty. But with months and months of investigation and allegations, it’s all bunk. Not a one thing they can charge him with. Unless you’re personally privy to those interviews and police records then I’m going to assume all those allegations are flimsy at best, maybe even all out lies. Until new information is available, if it ever does come out, Watson might look like a creep but there’s possibility of witch hunt. It’s in the realm of possibility now he’s just a kinky dude who did nothing wrong, lawfully. 

Okay let me just only use your most precious facts.

 

 

 

Not being indicted by a grand jury does not mean a lack of any evidence. It means a lack of sufficient evidence in which to beyond a reasonable doubt indict. Sexual assault stands as one of the most difficult criminal acts to prove in the court of law, even with physical evidence. 

 

"If those women had a leg to stand on then they’d be going after him. Why wouldn’t they?"

 

They literally are. What do you think the point of all this has been up until now?

 

 

I get you're trying to play the devils advocate in a world where it's significantly easier to witch hunt or cancel than it is to think objectively. However, I believe you are misinformed of the process that is happening right now. I'm very much on your side of innocent until proven guilty. However, Watson has been proven neither guilty nor innocent yet. If it came out tomorrow that this was some ridiculous multi-level ploy that was completely fabricated for settlement money I'd be hoping for Watsons success after being defamed on a public level.

 

The fact is we don't know if he's guilty or innocent yet, we might never know. However, for this moment there has been just as much evidence to say he is a scumbag as there is to say he is a saint. I personally choose to believe the 20+ allegations as that is more probable to me to be correct. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Daimonas

[Jroc04]

2 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

I think a lot of it is the nature of what it was. There wasn’t a lot to go off of aside from just picking a side you believed.

He didn’t do anything incriminating in a way that would prove their side of the story. I think they thought the class action style suit would help, evidence by plurality, but it seemingly backfired. As it lumped them all into one shot that missed. 

I mean, what exactly are the allegations? He asked them to do weird stuff? He touched them inappropriately? He forced himself on them? He physically assaulted or raped them? What was exactly done that was against the law or infringed on someone’s rights? I honestly don’t know. I’d love to find out to form a more well rounded opinion on the matter. How in the hell did 20+ allegations go unworthy of anything further? Baffling to me. But that’s where we are. A grand jury couldn’t justify one thing. 
 

Funny, the way you worded your last part of your post seems like someone’s out to get an innocent man if I didn’t know any of the story. Like, let’s nail this guy and get paid off his questionable sexual adventures. Maybe he’d be too embarrassed to make public.  This is where we can’t just assume on these things. It’s perfectly reasonable to form the opinion his a touch on the sexual predator side. But it’s also completely reasonable to believe people were trying to extort him in the light of that grand jury decision. 

[ninjapirate]

48 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

Well, do you believe in the justice system? It’s reasonable to believe, or at the least arguable, he did nothing wrong. Scummy? Probably. But people do weird ish every day and don’t have to go to jail or lose their job over it. Personal opinion, he’s probably a gross dude that took his stature and power over some innocents too far. But what is the real complaint here? None of them had enough evidence or corroboration to get anything to stick. Could just be an innocent man sent up the river. Could just be a freaky dude that got called out by a couple women not into his kink. All these things have to be considered now. Innocents included. 

Meh he had almost 2 dozen women complain about his conduct he is probably just a creep.

Prosectutors dont think theyd win the case so they didnt bother.

[Danger]

Theoretically if we trade 15 and 16 for Watson (+ change)

We'd have

Eagles trade 

Carson Wentz
Jaylen Waddle

for

DeShaun Watson
Devonta Smith

on paper that's.... pretty damn impressive.

[Kiltman]

16 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

I mean, what exactly are the allegations? He asked them to do weird stuff? He touched them inappropriately? He forced himself on them? He physically assaulted or raped them? What was exactly done that was against the law or infringed on someone’s rights? I honestly don’t know. I’d love to find out to form a more well rounded opinion on the matter. How in the hell did 20+ allegations go unworthy of anything further? Baffling to me. But that’s where we are. A grand jury couldn’t justify one thing. 
 

Funny, the way you worded your last part of your post seems like someone’s out to get an innocent man if I didn’t know any of the story. Like, let’s nail this guy and get paid off his questionable sexual adventures. Maybe he’d be too embarrassed to make public.  This is where we can’t just assume on these things. It’s perfectly reasonable to form the opinion his a touch on the sexual predator side. But it’s also completely reasonable to believe people were trying to extort him in the light of that grand jury decision. 

A lot of the retelling are out there, but not all. Off the top of my head incessantly trying to make them give him sexual gratification, one account where he ejaculated on a PT while she was doing her job. He kept making her work an area closer and closer and then shot one off. There is some other bad stuff but I can’t remember off the top of my head and don’t want to say something that wasn’t in there. My opinion is based on those accounts, as well as how hard it is to prove this stuff. These weren’t at massage parlors, these were physical/massage therapists he hired separately and would engage with in a 1to1 manner. There are no witnesses save for some 2nd ones that were told what he did right after the fact.

If that’s how that last part read, that’s not how I meant it. It’s incredibly hard for people to prove this stuff, unless they secretly recorded him doing this to them (which could be a felony onto itself, not sure on Texas law) they really can’t prove it. This is a lot of the reason why people don’t speak up about sexual crimes, especially the ones that aren’t full blown rape. All I was saying is I get why they would want to band together and say “hey we all had this experience with him, and he can’t keep getting away with it”

[Jroc04]

19 minutes ago, Daimonas said:

Okay let me just only use your most precious facts.

 

 

 

Not being indicted by a grand jury does not mean a lack of any evidence. It means a lack of sufficient evidence in which to beyond a reasonable doubt indict. Sexual assault stands as one of the most difficult criminal acts to prove in the court of law, even with physical evidence. 

 

"If those women had a leg to stand on then they’d be going after him. Why wouldn’t they?"

 

They literally are. What do you think the point of all this has been up until now?

 

 

I get you're trying to play the devils advocate in a world where it's significantly easier to witch hunt or cancel than it is to think objectively. However, I believe you are misinformed of the process that is happening right now. I'm very much on your side of innocent until proven guilty. However, Watson has been proven neither guilty nor innocent yet. If it came out tomorrow that this was some ridiculous multi-level ploy that was completely fabricated for settlement money I'd be hoping for Watsons success after being defamed on a public level.

 

The fact is we don't know if he's guilty or innocent yet, we might never know. However, for this moment there has been just as much evidence to say he is a scumbag as there is to say he is a saint. I personally choose to believe the 20+ allegations as that is more probable to me to be correct. 

That’s fair. I mean, I think you got a gripe more with the justice system than me. But I digress. 
 

Probable cause is insanely important though. A grand jury poured over information given them by opposing lawyers. And decided nothing is legitimate enough to charge him with. That’s a monster hole in their case. I’m sure these women could try a civil suit, and I think most will. But the NFL isn’t going to get their panties bunched over some civil indiscretions. Some felony or misdemeanor cases is a whole different situation. IMO, unless something insane comes to light, the grand jury decision just cleared him of ever substantially facing criminal charges. Which is really all the NFL and the teams vying for him need to see. They can deal with scumbags. They can’t get around felonious issues. 

[Daimonas]

2 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

A lot of the retelling are out there, but not all. Off the top of my head incessantly trying to make them give him sexual gratification, one account where he ejaculated on a PT while she was doing her job. He kept making her work an area closer and closer and then shot one off. My opinion is based on those accounts, as well as how hard it is to prove this stuff. These weren’t at massage parlors, these were physical/massage therapists he hired separately and would engage with in a 1to1 manner. There are no witnesses save for some 2nd ones that were told what he did right after the fact.

If that’s how that last part read, that’s not how I meant it. It’s incredibly hard for people to prove this stuff, unless they secretly recorded him doing this to them (which could be a felony onto itself, not sure on Texas law) they really can’t prove it. This is a lot of the reason why people don’t speak up about sexual crimes, especially the ones that aren’t full blown rape. All I was saying is I get why they would want to band together and say “hey we all had this experience with him, and he can’t keep getting away with it”

IIRC one of the statements said he forced one to perform oral sex on him as well.

[Daimonas]

1 minute ago, Jroc04 said:

That’s fair. I mean, I think you got a gripe more with the justice system than me. But I digress. 
 

Probable cause is insanely important though. A grand jury poured over information given them by opposing lawyers. And decided nothing is legitimate enough to charge him with. That’s a monster hole in their case. I’m sure these women could try a civil suit, and I think most will. But the NFL isn’t going to get their panties bunched over some civil indiscretions. Some felony or misdemeanor cases is a whole different situation. IMO, unless something insane comes to light, the grand jury decision just cleared him of ever substantially facing criminal charges. Which is really all the NFL and the teams vying for him need to see. They can deal with scumbags. They can’t get around felonious issues. 

In this I agree with you. His career will continue like normal after maybe a year long suspension. My only real point was that the grand jury decision doesn't absolve him of any wrongdoing, just that he won't have prison time. And I might be misremembering, but I'm rather certain that all 20+ cases are ongoing civil suits and that only the 9 or so even tried to have him convicted criminally. Likely due to how difficult it is to prove sexual assault.

[Jroc04]

4 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

A lot of the retelling are out there, but not all. Off the top of my head incessantly trying to make them give him sexual gratification, one account where he ejaculated on a PT while she was doing her job. He kept making her work an area closer and closer and then shot one off. My opinion is based on those accounts, as well as how hard it is to prove this stuff. These weren’t at massage parlors, these were physical/massage therapists he hired separately and would engage with in a 1to1 manner. There are no witnesses save for some 2nd ones that were told what he did right after the fact.

If that’s how that last part read, that’s not how I meant it. It’s incredibly hard for people to prove this stuff, unless they secretly recorded him doing this to them (which could be a felony onto itself, not sure on Texas law) they really can’t prove it. This is a lot of the reason why people don’t speak up about sexual crimes, especially the ones that aren’t full blown rape. All I was saying is I get why they would want to band together and say “hey we all had this experience with him, and he can’t keep getting away with it”

I get you. And with @Daimonas, I get him too. I believe those women. Im not trying to be insensitive to their claims. Fair or not, justice or injustice, is this dude going to be found guilty of some real serious accusations?  This is all I’m trying to represent. I’m definitely playing devils advocate here. And of the probability he ends up in south Philly on Sundays, small or large. 

[Jroc04]

3 minutes ago, Daimonas said:

In this I agree with you. His career will continue like normal after maybe a year long suspension. My only real point was that the grand jury decision doesn't absolve him of any wrongdoing, just that he won't have prison time. And I might be misremembering, but I'm rather certain that all 20+ cases are ongoing civil suits and that only the 9 or so even tried to have him convicted criminally. Likely due to how difficult it is to prove sexual assault.

This was really the point. As horrible as the justice system is sometimes, in particular to women in these situations, this guy just got a get out of jail free card. Practically literally. I have no doubt he’ll pay out for civil suits. How hard he fights, I dunno. And trust, it’s gross and he’s gross and I don’t want him on the Eagles but Howie and Jeff might think very differently. 

[Daimonas]

5 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

This was really the point. As horrible as the justice system is sometimes, in particular to women in these situations, this guy just got a get out of jail free card. Practically literally. I have no doubt he’ll pay out for civil suits. How hard he fights, I dunno. And trust, it’s gross and he’s gross and I don’t want him on the Eagles but Howie and Jeff might think very differently. 

All we can do is hope howie and lurie have a shred of morality and choose not to pursue him. 

[Kiltman]

7 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

This was really the point. As horrible as the justice system is sometimes, in particular to women in these situations, this guy just got a get out of jail free card. Practically literally. I have no doubt he’ll pay out for civil suits. How hard he fights, I dunno. And trust, it’s gross and he’s gross and I don’t want him on the Eagles but Howie and Jeff might think very differently. 

Gotcha gotcha

I was just speaking to how bad what some of the 20+ cases detailed. And that them not being able to move forward criminally didn’t mean much in proving the claims were baseless, just that they didn’t have enough proof to slap him with criminal charges.

Little charged up with slime like Adam Schefter acting like he just beat stage 4 cancer here.